Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[wannabeasupersleuth]

As I sit here reviewing all of the old information and taking in the new information that is coming out, I am reminded of what a terrible impact this case had on me personally.*** It was the first time in my life I watched an unbelievable injustice happen right in front of my eyes.* There was no way for me to negotiate it.* The evidence in this case is so abundant and obvious, the only explanation in my mind is this was not just incompetence but a true cover up.* I was already 100% convinced this was a murder and now, there is even more proof of that coming out.* How could law enforcement overlook so much evidence?* The only explanation I can come to is someone paid them off to make this go away.* It is frightening to have to face that this kind of stuff really happens and as mentioned by inparadise, I can't help but think the jury is vulnerable to manipulation.* I don't think there is a bottom to how low these people will go and the money available to them is endless.* We are not talking about millions of dollars.* We are talking about a billions.* I can only pray that justice comes.* It's been a long wait for everyone who has watched this unfold.* I believe there are many people who were involved in the cover up and I hope all of them are held accountable for their roles in delayed justice.* Nothing would make me happier than to see those involved behind bars.

A reminder to all California voters, some of the key players who I believe at the very least turned a blind eye to this are up for reelection very soon.* Make sure you know who you are voting foe.*

This is all my personal beliefs and opinions based on my understanding of the facts presented.

SO GOOD TO SEE YOU KZ!* One of my personal sleuth heroes!* [emoji175]

Thank you Peaceful. I echo everything you said. Nothing has sat right with me about this case from the beginning.

Jonah looks freshly face lifted and botoxed for his court appearance...BTW...

 

[K_Z]

I wanted to add my thanks to Tricia, especially, for arranging the internet radio interview with Mr. Greer (Zahau attorney). I also really appreciated Cynic's involvement, and the questions asked.

I had a thought. (Lol-- imagine that?!)

Tricia-- after this trial is over, and Mr. Greer (presumably) has more time, would you consider approaching him again for another internet radio discussion?

Many of us really appreciated Mr. Greer's comments from before the trial started. We are sure to have some questions when this is over, and if he's willing, it would be nice to have some closure.

Perhaps we could have a thread ahead of time where we could submit questions for Mr. Greer to consider answering?

For example, one question I have at this point is why did it take SOOO long to establish that Dina Shacknai actually IS on the Rady hospital surveillance video, during the time of Rebecca's death?? That should have been so very easy to establish early on-- I'm rather dumbfounded that it took so long. It would seem that it was in the interest of both the plaintiffs and the defense to figure that out pretty early on.

Anyway, if Mr. Greer would be willing to make one last connection with "us" after the trial is over (regardless of the outcome), I think a lot of longtime followers of this case would be deeply appreciative.

 

[K_Z]

The contents of the message have never been substantiated. During the investigation, the news was said to be negative regarding Max's condition so LE would have an excuse to say it was a motive for her to commit suicide. In reality, it's unknown what information the message included, if any. It's this incident that indicates JS may have actively participated in the cover up of RZ's death, as he's the one who told LE that he gave her bad news. Allegedly, LE were never able to retrieve the actual message.

I know I'm somewhat of a broken record on this, but it's really almost impossible for me to believe that at the point of Rebecca's death that there was any positive or hopeful signs or medical "conclusions" that Max was "improving". (I can, however, believe that his PARENTS may have been hopeful, or in denial, or had been sheltered from the brutal statistical outcomes, at that point in time.)

Max had a traumatic cardiac arrest at the scene of the accident. (*Remember, he was in a FULL arrest for at least a half hour, and likely longer, before a heartbeat was established at the Coronado hospital-- EMS was diverted to Coronado enroute to Rady because they didn't have an airway, IV or intraosseous access, and no cardiac rhythm.) In another thread (long, long ago), I linked many studies, involving hundreds of pediatric traumatic arrests, that demonstrates that *any* survival of pediatric patients in those circumstances is very, very rare. Some of those studies were actually done by Rady trauma. And of the *tiny* number that lived to cardiac resuscitation, none were neurologically intact (or even a little bit functional or interactive, to any degree).

So it's just really hard for me to reconcile that there may have been "hopeful" indications in Max's condition at the time of Rebecca's death. (I can believe he was stable at his current level of injury, level of brain swelling, cardiac status, etc, but not "improving", or showing signs that were "hopeful".) I simply cannot believe that any hospital personnel would have been holding out false hope at that point in time. Stable, but grim prognosis is the most likely tone, IMO.

It's far more plausible that all of the medical information leading to prognosis projections was dismal, but the process of establishing brain death takes 12+ hours to a couple days. I really, really wish Max's medical records were available to correlate what exactly was going on with his prognosis, at the time of "the very important and not recovered voicemail", and Rebecca's subsequent death.

Just my musings.

 

[cynic]

I wanted to add my thanks to Tricia, especially, for arranging the internet radio interview with Mr. Greer (Zahau attorney). I also really appreciated Cynic's involvement, and the questions asked.

I had a thought. (Lol-- imagine that?!)

Tricia-- after this trial is over, and Mr. Greer (presumably) has more time, would you consider approaching him again for another internet radio discussion?

Many of us really appreciated Mr. Greer's comments from before the trial started. We are sure to have some questions when this is over, and if he's willing, it would be nice to have some closure.

Perhaps we could have a thread ahead of time where we could submit questions for Mr. Greer to consider answering?

For example, one question I have at this point is why did it take SOOO long to establish that Dina Shacknai actually IS on the Rady hospital surveillance video, during the time of Rebecca's death?? That should have been so very easy to establish early on-- I'm rather dumbfounded that it took so long. It would seem that it was in the interest of both the plaintiffs and the defense to figure that out pretty early on.

Anyway, if Mr. Greer would be willing to make one last connection with "us" after the trial is over (regardless of the outcome), I think a lot of longtime followers of this case would be deeply appreciative.

K_Z, great idea regarding an interview following the trial. I’m confident he would be willing to do an “AMA” of sorts.
As to your question of why it took so long to clear Dina; have a look at the press conference where Keith explains the process he had to endure to view the hospital video.
You will also likely find Dina’s comments regarding the condition of Max to be interesting.
http://dai.ly/x6fi203

Lash also posted a YouTube link to the video in the Media area of this forum:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...lines-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=13328583#post13328583
https://youtu.be/Rgn2pkIj98U

 

[Coppertop15]

Are they saying the knife handle was in her vagina?

 

[cynic]

Are they saying the knife handle was in her vagina?

The steak knife handle is alleged to have been used to sexually assault Rebecca. The demonstration regarding fingerprints involved the other knife found in the bedroom, the butcher knife.

 

[EA18G]

Justice for Rebecca!

 

[Tortoise]

I wasn't aware of this case until I heard the podcast. I expect there was a lot of discussion in the earlier threads about Rebecca's body position and rigor and livor mortis which I don't have the time at this point to read up on, but I am perplexed about the position of her legs. Not so much her bent knees because I think rigor can be more easily broken in minor joints, and although I don't believe AS's version I can see how investigators might explain that by her being cut down and lowered to the ground. However, I can't accept her hip joints were positioned like that as a result of the cutting down. In my amateur opinion it looks to me as if Rebecca was left lying in the house dead in the same position she was seen lying on the grass. Rigor fixed before he decided to hang her and then because she would not look hanged with her legs bent in front at almost right angles to her body, he had to cut the rope immediately he hanged her over the balcony, so that she wouldn't look so odd.

If she had hanged herself on a rope long enough so her feet reached the ground her feet would be flat not toes pointed. Also her back shows that her blood had settled while she was in a supine position. The rope has been cut much too high up from the ground for her to have been hanging low to the ground, and the length still attached to her also appears to show the same anomaly. A body that high up would hang down straight.

I didn't read Mr Greer mention any of this in his opening statements. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough in the death sciences to draw these conclusions but that's how it appears to me as a newbie to the case.

 

[Imp]

Was just looking at the pictures at this link: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...-Spreckels-Mansion-Death-Zahau-475444163.html (found in the Media Links thread thanks to *Lash*).

It really makes me angry to see all the "death investigation" equipment and personnel at Spreckels, knowing the ultimate goal was to intentionally concoct a suicide scenario.

A few things stand out for me from those pics and the captions ...

4 of 20 ~ never saw this pic until the other day, and I've been following this case since Rebecca's murder, though not at the level of detail of some others here. Her clothes from the day of her death were never found. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

14 of 20 ~ Caption: "The sheriff's department investigated the case for two months" ... yet apparently didn't test one piece of evidence that might lend itself to murder vs. suicide. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

16 of 20 ~ Caption: "A drop of blood found in a shower inside the Spreckels mansion that was collected by sheriff's department investigators but not processed, according to one expert witness." The "death investigators" collected blood from a shower but didn't process it. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

17 of 20 ~ Caption: "A towel and blood drops were found in the hallway outside of the guest bedroom that leads to the balcony where Zahau was found hanging. A forensic expert testified the blood was likely Zahau's menstrual blood." The blood was "likely" Rebecca's and "likely" menstrual blood. LIKELY? Nothing suspicious about your lack of curiosity about the source of the blood, right SDSO?

19 of 20 ~ Pic of Judge Bacal, who I'd like to personally thank for allowing this to come to trial.

 

[Tortoise]

From your link Imp, photo 4, does it look to anyone else as if there is an injury to Rebecca's face in that last photograph of her?

 

[Gilgamesh]

Was just looking at the pictures at this link: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...-Spreckels-Mansion-Death-Zahau-475444163.html (found in the Media Links thread thanks to *Lash*).

It really makes me angry to see all the "death investigation" equipment and personnel at Spreckels, knowing the ultimate goal was to intentionally concoct a suicide scenario.

A few things stand out for me from those pics and the captions ...

4 of 20 ~ never saw this pic until the other day, and I've been following this case since Rebecca's murder, though not at the level of detail of some others here. Her clothes from the day of her death were never found. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

14 of 20 ~ Caption: "The sheriff's department investigated the case for two months" ... yet apparently didn't test one piece of evidence that might lend itself to murder vs. suicide. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

16 of 20 ~ Caption: "A drop of blood found in a shower inside the Spreckels mansion that was collected by sheriff's department investigators but not processed, according to one expert witness." The "death investigators" collected blood from a shower but didn't process it. Nothing suspicious about that, right SDSO?

17 of 20 ~ Caption: "A towel and blood drops were found in the hallway outside of the guest bedroom that leads to the balcony where Zahau was found hanging. A forensic expert testified the blood was likely Zahau's menstrual blood." The blood was "likely" Rebecca's and "likely" menstrual blood. LIKELY? Nothing suspicious about your lack of curiosity about the source of the blood, right SDSO?

19 of 20 ~ Pic of Judge Bacal, who I'd like to personally thank for allowing this to come to trial.

And the panties in the trash can in the guest house! They didn’t bother to test them. Just assumed they were from one of GS’s sleepovers. Pretty unbelievable!

 

[Imp]

From your link Imp, photo 4, does it look to anyone else as if there is an injury to Rebecca's face in that last photograph of her?

I saw the same pic within the last week or so, and it was not as blurred. If you're talking about around her mouth area, I assume that's her hair blowing across her face. I do have to say, and I'm obviously not familiar with RZ's expressions, that she doesn't look happy in that photo. And who took it? Wonder if anyone here recognizes that parking lot?

 

[Redhead sleuth]

From your link Imp, photo 4, does it look to anyone else as if there is an injury to Rebecca's face in that last photograph of her?

. IMO, Rebecca does appear to have injuries to face and neck. Perhaps, due to blurry state of photo but very questionable.

 

[Imp]

And the panties in the trash can in the guest house! They didn’t bother to test them. Just assumed they were from one of GS’s sleepovers. Pretty unbelievable!

Yep, another bit of evidence that apparently didn't fit the suicide scenario. I remember someone here, perhaps *Lash*, once listed all the evidence collected but not tested/processed by the "death investigators." It was absolutely stunning.

I'm also wondering who JS ran his 'Asian honor' thing by before/after Dina. Sheriff Gore, perhaps? Wonder just how many people involved in the coverup were blathering about 'Asian honor' during the 2-month "investigation."

 

[Imp]

I wasn't aware of this case until I heard the podcast. I expect there was a lot of discussion in the earlier threads about Rebecca's body position and rigor and livor mortis which I don't have the time at this point to read up on, but I am perplexed about the position of her legs. Not so much her bent knees because I think rigor can be more easily broken in minor joints, and although I don't believe AS's version I can see how investigators might explain that by her being cut down and lowered to the ground. However, I can't accept her hip joints were positioned like that as a result of the cutting down. In my amateur opinion it looks to me as if Rebecca was left lying in the house dead in the same position she was seen lying on the grass. Rigor fixed before he decided to hang her and then because she would not look hanged with her legs bent in front at almost right angles to her body, he had to cut the rope immediately he hanged her over the balcony, so that she wouldn't look so odd.

If she had hanged herself on a rope long enough so her feet reached the ground her feet would be flat not toes pointed. Also her back shows that her blood had settled while she was in a supine position. The rope has been cut much too high up from the ground for her to have been hanging low to the ground, and the length still attached to her also appears to show the same anomaly. A body that high up would hang down straight.

I didn't read Mr Greer mention any of this in his opening statements. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough in the death sciences to draw these conclusions but that's how it appears to me as a newbie to the case.

Tortoise: Great post/food for thought. I'm hoping maybe K_Z will be able to address some of your points/questions.

 

[Lezah]

I wasn't aware of this case until I heard the podcast. I expect there was a lot of discussion in the earlier threads about Rebecca's body position and rigor and livor mortis which I don't have the time at this point to read up on, but I am perplexed about the position of her legs. Not so much her bent knees because I think rigor can be more easily broken in minor joints, and although I don't believe AS's version I can see how investigators might explain that by her being cut down and lowered to the ground. However, I can't accept her hip joints were positioned like that as a result of the cutting down. In my amateur opinion it looks to me as if Rebecca was left lying in the house dead in the same position she was seen lying on the grass. Rigor fixed before he decided to hang her and then because she would not look hanged with her legs bent in front at almost right angles to her body, he had to cut the rope immediately he hanged her over the balcony, so that she wouldn't look so odd.

If she had hanged herself on a rope long enough so her feet reached the ground her feet would be flat not toes pointed. Also her back shows that her blood had settled while she was in a supine position. The rope has been cut much too high up from the ground for her to have been hanging low to the ground, and the length still attached to her also appears to show the same anomaly. A body that high up would hang down straight.

I didn't read Mr Greer mention any of this in his opening statements. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough in the death sciences to draw these conclusions but that's how it appears to me as a newbie to the case.

Hi I’m a newbie too!

These are great points. I actually believe that RZs hands and feet were tied together, connecting to each other. This would explain why the bound ropes were lax when she was found. When she was alive the ropes were connected, so taught, after death they were cut and separated. This would allow the resease of tension in the rope the police found.

You can see on one of the photographs she is grasping the cut, tail end of the rope a downwards direction, this would also explain why, as it’s a natural hand position if your trying to pull something away...As you struggle to be free, your feet pull against your wrist restrains and vice versa. This makes the grasping of this section of rope make sense to me.

In the photo after death, her body configuataion would also match this restrained position, she would be forced into a kneeling position.

There is also ( menstrual) blood on the soles of her feet, beside her big toes. This restraint position would explain it, she would be forced to ‘sit’ on her soles of her feet...perhaps when she was trying to use the knife to release herself while AS pained the message on the door? By sitting on her bottom it would help release some tension between the wrist and ankle restraints giving her a better chance to cut the rope. The three ‘ blade’ like cuts may have been sustained at this time perhaps? They appear to be in the right position.

I also don’t beleive she was ever hung from the balcony, I feel she died in her room. Only AS says she was hung from the balcony, no one ever saw her there... I think her body was staged and placed on the grass as was the balcony rope placed over the rail. The bed is not in the correct position of drag as she was never tied to it, it was just jolted into position to make it appear she was tied to it.

This is also why the footprint pattern on the balcony doesn’t work with her going over the rail. Maybe she went out there to answer AS calling her from the garden to ask if he could come up and see her....? it seems she stood out there at some stage, but no evidence of a struggle...

What are your thoughts?

 

[Mica]

From your link Imp, photo 4, does it look to anyone else as if there is an injury to Rebecca's face in that last photograph of her?

The photo is grainy, but it certainly looks like there is an injury or something going on in the area between her nose and upper lip, IMO.

 

[Carioca]

Clipped for focus
If she had hanged herself on a rope long enough so her feet reached the ground her feet would be flat not toes pointed. Also her back shows that her blood had settled while she was in a supine position. The rope has been cut much too high up from the ground for her to have been hanging low to the ground, and the length still attached to her also appears to show the same anomaly. A body that high up would hang down straight.

I didn't read Mr Greer mention any of this in his opening statements. Maybe I'm just not knowledgeable enough in the death sciences to draw these conclusions but that's how it appears to me as a newbie to the case.

Hi Tortoise,
This illustration might help you visualize the rope length, RZ's position from the ground, and why IMO AS did NOT need the wooden table in order to reach up and cut the rope:

Top of balcony railing to ground level = 196 inches
Brick walkway raised from ground level = 2 inches 1
Top of balcony railing to brick walkway = 194 inches (196”- 2”)
Drop from top of balcony to RZ neck = 110 inches (9 feet 2 inches) 6
Remaining distance from RZ neck to brick walkway = 86 inches (194”-110”+ 2”)
Rebecca height = 63-1/2 inches 4
Adam's height 5'11" (71 inches) + 24 inch overhead reach = 95 inches*
(*) source: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=averages
Adam’s reach from brick courtyard = 97 inches (95 inches+ 2 inches) 5
According to LE, RZ’s feet off ground = 28-1/2 inches (26-1/2”+ 2“) 2
Table height average 30 inches + 2 inches brick walkway = 32 inches 3

Conclusion: Adam did not need wooden table:
Adam’s reach placed his hand approx.16 inches above RZ’s neck; can feasibly add 6 more inches if on his toes + 2 more inches for Shape-Up shoe insole.
RZ’s feet were hanging 3-1/2 inches below table height.

BTW the cut in the rope would have snapped upwards once RZ's weight was off, which is why the cut is so much higher IMO

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I'm new to this case also. One of the most obvious things to point to murder is the lack of fingerprints on wide areas of the door jambs, indicating they were wiped down to remove fingerprints. This would have been evident early in the investigation and is not something investigators could have missed.

Or could this have been a case where the investigators were suspicious but there was not enough evidence for a medical examiner to issue a finding of homicide?

There's a good movie on Netflix right now called "Wind River" where this issue is addressed. A death that should be categorized as a homicide but there is not enough evidence to do so. The ME explains why this is so within the movie. Decent movie, by the way.

 

[Sharyne]

The photo is grainy, but it certainly looks like there is an injury or something going on in the area between her nose and upper lip, IMO.

From Greer's twitter account, it also looks like 3 bruises...one below her lip, one on left side of chin and one on left cheek. https://twitter.com/@greerlawyer see Feb 2