Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
In the trial today we watched an almost two hour deposition from Dina Shacknai. She mentioned AS was a ‘writer’. Apparently he was often sending examples of his writing to Dina, who said, in her opinion’ he was very good’. She said he wrote in the style of Augusten Burroughs ( in fact she used the example of ‘running with scissors’ as an indication of the type of genre)

It made me think immediately of writing ...in the third person...

In a recent Town and Country Magazine article, Jonah Shacknai also described as a satirical writer:

"...Jonah Shacknai has not spoken on the record in the years since Max and Rebecca died. A Georgetown law school alumnus, before going into business Jonah cut his teeth in politics as chief of staff for Congressman Jim Scheuer in the 1970s. Under a pseudonym he co-wrote an amusing satirical novel based on his experiences in Washington, DC, titled Confessions of a Social Climber. The book is filled with Machiavellian twists and turns, à la House of Cards. The company he founded in his thirties, Medicis Pharmaceuticals, was named after the banking family of Renaissance Florence, remembered now for their ruthless ambition...".

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...6/shaknai-deaths-mystery-coronado-california/
 
The message on the door: Jonah used to tell Dina that she saved him from a terrible marriage. Interestingly, he also told Rebecca the very same thing. IMO, that message is aimed at Jonah, and perhaps has multiple meanings. The question is, who wrote it?
As well as the words there are squiggly lines framing the whole thing and through the centre, which reminds me of the kind of explosion you see for dramatic effect around words in comic books. It looks to have been drawn with a charcoal pencil or pastel crayon. I wonder if this was ever found and tested because I've only ever heard about the black tube of paint.

attachment.php


cache.php
 

Attachments

  • zahau.png
    zahau.png
    598.3 KB · Views: 149
The door message not having a question mark and having the art effects around it makes me think it was written as a rhetorical headline announcement.

I'm getting the feeling that this was crazed behaviour, with drugs involved. I think the chair may have been involved, that Rebecca might have been strapped to it with a gag in her mouth and sexually assaulted and she somehow kicked herself backwards or sideways to topple it over. Although there would probably be blood on the chair unless she had a blanket or cushion under her. She was strangled and left dead for a few hours, AS came back and knew he would be in the frame as the murderer and changed the scene into a hanging suicide.
 
Thank you for the link, Lash. Did you notice that they have the door? The entire door, message intact, was in the courtroom! We were told that door had been repainted, returned to Jonah Shacknai, and reinstalled, do you remember? Now why in the round blue world would somebody want us to believe those things, Lash, if the opposite were true, and it is? Who are these people???

Lash, I think my head is going to explode.

You’re welcome, Coastal :wave:

Exactly! Took me for a loop 🤪 The picture of the entire/full door is what caught my eye too. I had to post the video. Absolutely, I cannot forgot the story of the door being returned to Jonah and repainted. It was surprising to us. I do not recall where the story originated, do you? I will look through my archives. I seem to remember something from the SDSO presser.
 
As well as the words there are squiggly lines framing the whole thing and through the centre, which reminds me of the kind of explosion you see for dramatic effect around words in comic books. It looks to have been drawn with a charcoal pencil or pastel crayon. I wonder if this was ever found and tested because I've only ever heard about the black tube of paint.

attachment.php


cache.php

I wondered the same thing when the Keith Greer revealed it during an interview. At the time I thought it looked like a Sharpie or something, but your guess of charcoal pencil may be better. Where is it? Why wasn't it found in the murder room? And yes, the artwork, wording and sentiment are very revealing, angry, petulant, certainly nutty or crazy. Borderline Personality Disorder on display. It took a little time to compose this, with squiggles on the background and paint over that.


"You should get down on your knees and thank Becky for saving Max's life"
 
I think at this point it's best to view everything that came out of the "death investigation," including the autopsy, as not necessarily the truth.

^ BBM ^

Imp, I agree 100%. Not necessarily the truth - how do we define it? Incompetent? Corruption? Confirmation bias? Cover up? All the above?

I tend to believe the majority of WS members are usually supportive of LE. It is a hard discussion, as Tricia mentioned. I know it is for me. In Rebecca’s investigation I often thought there were too many hands in the cookie jar.
 
The door message not having a question mark and having the art effects around it makes me think it was written as a rhetorical headline announcement.

I'm getting the feeling that this was crazed behaviour, with drugs involved. I think the chair may have been involved, that Rebecca might have been strapped to it with a gag in her mouth and sexually assaulted and she somehow kicked herself backwards or sideways to topple it over. Although there would probably be blood on the chair unless she had a blanket or cushion under her. She was strangled and left dead for a few hours, AS came back and knew he would be in the frame as the murderer and changed the scene into a hanging suicide.

Was the real door actually in court?? Or was it a projection on the screen?

My understanding is that the black on the squiggly lines are remnants of the fingerprint powder investigators used. Could the lines be from the fingerprint lifting procedure?
 
Was the real door actually in court?? Or was it a projection on the screen?

My understanding is that the black on the squiggly lines are remnants of the fingerprint powder investigators used. Could the lines be from the fingerprint lifting procedure?

It was there. It was propped up against a wall in the courtroom. Several months or a year ago, Keith Greer did an interview where he showed it. Will have to look for that article.

JMO: to me the squiggly lines look different from fingerprint powder. I've never seen that before.
 
Here's a link to the news video of Keith Greer's interview in Feb 2017 where he shows the "Evidence Room".

https://youtu.be/ns7xnlaPRzI

You can see a good view of the door with writing around 1:33.
 
The comment from Jonah to Dina she talked about in her deposition, "you should get down on your knees...." sounds to me like a RETORT or reply, rather than a comment initiating conversation, or out of the blue. I suspect Dina made some negative comments about Rebecca and Max's injury occurring under her watch, that prompted that kind of reply from Jonah. Just my speculation, from reading all of the information over the years about how Dina disparaged Rebecca in public.

It's quite common for ex-wives to despise their ex's new love interest. In the case of a devastating accident like this, it makes sense that she would be angry and verbalizing blame in the early hours after the accident.

I've never believed the comments that they truly believed Max was improving. Even if we had Max's records to substantiate what the family was told about his condition and prognosis after the 30+ min cardiac arrest with complications during the stabilization, all they have to say is they "thought" he was improving, because denial of the seriousness at that point in time would be completely understandable by the average person.

Dina posted on her Max Shacknai website several years ago, the 911 run record to validate her claims that "no CPR" was done by Rebecca. This was back during her "Rebecca killed Max" campaign, which she NOW says she does not believe.She has only said this since being dropped from the lawsuit, which at the very least, seems odd (if I'm being generous).

I don't know too many lay people who can do effective chest compressions and rescue breathing (which was still recommended in BLS in 2011) on a victim with a head injury and an airway filled with passively regurgitated vomit. That was a severe challenge even to the EMS crew, with all their advanced equipment and suction devices.

There is no way that the complicated and prolonged resuscitation efforts would have been presented to Dina and Jonah as "smooth", or encouraging, or brief.

The run record tells a very dire story of a serious 8'-10' fall, with head and neck injuries highly probable, an airway filled with regurgitated vomit, inability to establish any kind of airway by paramedics at the scene (they could not clear the airway of vomit, ventilate him, or place any advanced airway modalities), inabiity to establish IV or intraosseous access, and complete cardiac arrest with compressions in progress. This necessitated diversion of EMS to the very small Coronado hospital to either pronounce Max dead, or get help to establish a patent airway, and enough of a cardiac rhythm, and lines, to get him to Rady alive (which, IIRC, is about 20-30 min drive?).

At that point, Max had almost certainly passively aspirated a huge lung/s full of stomach contents, which further complicated air exchange at the level of the alveoli, and made resuscitation even harder. The AR and med record review Dina paid for by Dr. Judy Melineck revealed Max struggled with a huge aspiration pneumonia syndrome from the time of admission to Rady. Aspiration pneumonia is like a chemical burn of the lung tissue. Not a single piece of any of this gives an encouraging picture, even without knowing what the exact head injuries were on imaging.

I know it supports Mr. Greer's theory that Max's parents thought he was improving. I just don't think there is any evidence we know of that supports this, other than their "belief". And if Jonah is still claiming he sent a VM to RZ about Max taking "a turn for the worse", then there is conflict in the whole story about how Max's condition and prognosis was understood by everyone who was in the know at that point in time.
 
The real door was preserved as evidence. WTF??

Man, the disinformation campaign was in even more overdrive than we thought.

Does anyone recall just WHEN the story was put out that the door was returned to Jonah and painted over?

Exactly how long after the infamous "SDSO labor day weekend film festival"?

<modsnip>
 
If you look at the door pic above, the letters in the message are on top of the squiggles. Interesting. I wonder if the door writer made the squiggles first, and when they didn't show up well enough, then got the paint tube and brush.
 
The real door was preserved as evidence. WTF??

Man, the disinformation campaign was in even more overdrive than we thought.

Does anyone recall just WHEN the story was put out that the door was returned to Jonah and painted over?

Exactly how long after the infamous "SDSO labor day weekend film festival"?

<modsnip>. IMO.

In the Feb 2017 video interview with Greer, he says the evidence had been locked away since 2011. Greer was revealing it for the first time.

https://youtu.be/ns7xnlaPRzI


Sprecklesdoor.png
 
In the Feb 2017 video interview with Greer, he says the evidence had been locked away since 2011. Greer was revealing it for the first time.

https://youtu.be/ns7xnlaPRzI

Yes, but when did "we" get the information that the door was returned to Jonah?

Who planted that information on the web, and why?

I'll take a look at old threads, but if anyone knows when that story was planted and watered, please post.
 
Yes, but when did "we" get the information that the door was returned to Jonah?

Who planted that information on the web, and why?

I'll take a look at old threads, but if anyone knows when that story was planted and watered, please post.

It's waay back there somewhere. SDSO planted it, most likely. Remember when we were all trying to get Ann Rule's book because she had (at that time) the only photo of the writing on the door? Up until then, the writing was blocked out in photos.

ETA: Remember all the discussion about needing to preserve doors because it was a historic building, etc.


Link to 2011 thread

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?148929-The-message-on-the-door

Link to 2013 thread

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?218080-Mysterious-Message-on-the-Door


ETA: Re my comments at the beginning of the 2013 thread, Tricia and the mods must have thought we were crazy and a real PITA the way those threads kept getting hijacked and drama-filled. I'm thankful she stuck it out with us.
 
I know it supports Mr. Greer's theory that Max's parents thought he was improving. I just don't think there is any evidence we know of that supports this, other than their "belief". And if Jonah is still claiming he sent a VM to RZ about Max taking "a turn for the worse", then there is conflict in the whole story about how Max's condition and prognosis was understood by everyone who was in the know at that point in time.

KZ here is an older article where Dina was interviewed. If she's telling the truth, then the MRI on Max after Rebecca's death is when they got the news that Max had extensive brain damage.
&#8220;Yes, it&#8217;s awful,&#8221; Dina answered. Later, at her home, two more detectives asked Dina what she thought about Rebecca&#8217;s death. She was in a hurry to return to the hospital to view the results of Max&#8217;s MRI. &#8220;They said something like &#8216;Is this related to what happened to Max?&#8217;&#8221; she recalls. &#8220;And my first thought was: &#8216;What are you suggesting? That somebody hurt Max on purpose? That somebody harmed Rebecca?&#8217;&#8230; They were intimating [foul play].&#8221;

When Dina returned to the hospital, Max&#8217;s neurologists delivered crushing news: The MRI revealed extensive damage to his basal ganglia, the brain structure associated with motor function.

However, prior to that doctors were trying to figure out how/why Max went into cardiac arrest.

Max&#8217;s physicians were still looking for clues to explain his cardiac arrest. &#8220;I felt like my life was collapsing like a card table,&#8221; Dina says. &#8220;The doctors said, &#8216;If you have any information, that would be helpful.&#8217; So I asked Nina to go talk to Rebecca. Beg her on your hands and knees, if you have to. Ask her if there&#8217;s anything, anything, that might help Max. Some detail or something she left out [of the police report].&#8221;

http://www.phoenixmag.com/valley-news/boy-interrupted.html

I remember, but unfortunately don't have a link to reports that initially there was a doctor who suspected strangulation or suffocation, and Rebecca was not allowed in the room with Max. IIRC that doctor also initiated a report with CPS. Does anybody else remember that? Years ago when I saw that info I thought well if that isn't motive for murder then what is? But all later reports turned into Dina (who was also speaking for Jonah) thinking Max was going to be okay at the time of Rebecca's death, like they hadn't heard a devastating prognosis yet.

I highly doubt a doctor visited Jonah late at night and gave him bad news, and he decided to share that with Rebecca by voice mail but said nothing to Dina?

No, this voice mail bs and when they knew what isn't adding up. IMO Dina is and has tried to take the motive to kill Rebecca out of the equation for the Shacknai clan.

It's kind of odd to me that Dina now thinks Rebecca was murdered, she just doesn't think the killer was Adam.
 
if indeed the squiggles were put there by the murderer, we might notice the leftward slant of the vertical lines of the squiggles, similar to the leftward or mostly vertical slant of AS handwriting, compared the rightward slant of RZ's writing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
192
Guests online
251
Total visitors
443

Forum statistics

Threads
608,545
Messages
18,240,972
Members
234,395
Latest member
Emzoelin
Back
Top