Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[bourne]

Which raises a possibility in jury deliberations I had not thought of. (I know I'm getting ahead of myself.)

What if four or more jurors think it was murder -- but are not convinced it was AS who killed her.

OR

What if a scenario like the following occurs. Two jurors believe it was suicide and two jurors think it was murder but not AS.

In both instances the jury would fail to meet the 9 juror minimum for a favorable verdict for the family.

Perish the thought. I know.

There is only one defendant on trial, Adam. He is a TUGBOAT captain with experience in rope tying and knots analogous to those found on Rebecca's wrists, ankles and noose.

If Jury believes Rebecca was murdered, which they will, mark my words, they will, Adam is a goner.

 

[bourne]

Hopefully, the jurors will think about the fact that RZ's own fingerprints weren't found on the knob of the door leading to the balcony. She wasn't wearing gloves when she was found. Greer will be bringing all this up when he closes and I hope the jurors realize the crime scene was wiped clean.

To address Stmarymead's question, it wouldn't be necessary for Adam to remove his DNA and leave RZ's. RZ had been staying at the mansion a while. Her DNA would be in a lot of places. It would even be on the kitchen knives, because she probably used them when preparing meals. What's of interest are the places and items where no one's DNA or fingerprints appear - like the balcony door knob. IIRC, there were no fingerprints on the handle of the butcher knife, either, only RZ's prints on the blade of the knife. I could be wrong about that, but its what I remember. If accurate, it means someone cleaned off the handle of the knife, but forgot to clean the blade.

I think Greer should ask the jury, "Why did the investigators have to TURN ON the light to the murder room? And why was the balcony door shut? Are we to believe that Rebecca hogtied herself and then flew off the balcony AND THEN flew back into the murder room to turn off the light and close the balcony door behind her?"

Nothing screams she was murdered more than the murderer turning off lights, cleaning up rope shavings, and closing the door after hanging the victim, and the investigators not finding any prints on a commonly used DOOR KNOB? But yet find Rebecca's prints on knife blade? Say what?!

 

[Verboten]

I think Greer should ask the jury, "Why did the investigators have to TURN ON the light to the murder room? And why was the balcony door shut? Are we to believe that Rebecca hogtied herself and then flew off the balcony AND THEN flew back into the murder room to turn off the light and close the balcony door behind her?"

Nothing screams she was murdered more than the murderer turning off lights, cleaning up rope shavings, and closing the door after hanging the victim, and the investigators not finding any prints on a commonly used DOOR KNOB? But yet find Rebecca's prints on knife blade? Say what?!

I'm a late-comer to the details in this case, so missed the early years of evidence analysis here at WS. I saw someone ask the question if lights were found on or off, but I was unaware that lights were off, door to balcony shut. Is that definitive? If so, then ... that's a wrap. Seriously? The balcony door found closed????

 

[coastal]

From a link *Lash* posted in the media thread (thanks, *Lash*!):

Will the Rebecca Zahau Civil Case Jury Reach a Conclusion Different From the Investigators?

https://coronadotimes.com/news/2018...-conclusion-different-from-the-investigators/

>>>snip

…As the civil case in the Rebecca Zahau trial continues into its third week, the question remains, “Who actually believes Ms. Zahau took her own life?”…

…She was found just before 7am by Shaknai’s brother Adam, who was staying in the back guest house opposite the courtyard of the balcony. Adam called 911 and reported, “I gotta girl…hung herself.” When asked by the 911 operator if she was alive, he responded: “Are you alive? I don’t think so.” He cut the rope, letting the body fall before police arrived…

(article continues)

<<<snip

BBM.

 

[Mica]

Zahau could not have tipped herself over balcony in suicide, expert testfies

Could Rebecca Zahau, at 5 feet 3 inches tall, bind her hands and feet, hop to a balcony railing more than half her height and tip herself over in a suicide by hanging?
An expert in how the human body moves testified on Tuesday that, according to his mathematical calculations, it would be nearly impossible.

&#8220;She&#8217;d have to hop wherever she goes,&#8221; said James Kent, a forensic kinesiologist.

&#8220;She would have to fall forward onto the railing. She wouldn&#8217;t go over because her center of gravity is below the railing,&#8221; he said.
<modsnip>


http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-suicide-20180313-story.html

 

[bourne]

I'm a late-comer to the details in this case, so missed the early years of evidence analysis here at WS. I saw someone ask the question if lights were found on or off, but I was unaware that lights were off, door to balcony shut. Is that definitive? If so, then ... that's a wrap. Seriously? The balcony door found closed????

I recall there was discussion where the cops said they found the balcony door shut with latch down and lights off.

In order for the preposterous suicide to happen, victim would have to hogtie herself with hands and legs bound, noose around neck and shirt stuffed down threat, then hop about IN THE DARK, miraculously lift her whole tied up body up, fly over the balcony railing even though her center of gravity was too low, then somehow while dangling off railing with noose around neck somehow find a way to push down balcony door latch to shut the door behind her...because god forbid, she should leave the lights on because you know she needs to conserve electricity upon her death, and god forbid she should leave balcony door open and allow any breeze to enter the murder room in the summer...NOT.

 

[Inparadise]

I recall there was discussion where the cops said they found the balcony door shut with latch down and lights off.

In order for the preposterous suicide to happen, victim would have to hogtie herself with hands and legs bound, noose around neck and shirt stuffed down threat, then hop about IN THE DARK, miraculously lift her whole tied up body up, fly over the balcony railing even though her center of gravity was too low, then somehow while dangling off railing with noose around neck somehow find a way to push down balcony door latch to shut the door behind her...because god forbid, she should leave the lights on because you know she needs to conserve electricity upon her death, and god forbid she should leave balcony door open and allow any breeze to enter the murder room in the summer...NOT.

If Rebecca wanted to end her life that night, which I do not believe that she did, there were plenty of drugs available in the house, as well as an ocean right across the street. This was not a suicide............

 

[Lilibet]

If Rebecca wanted to end her life that night, which I do not believe that she did, there were plenty of drugs available in the house, as well as an ocean right across the street. This was not a suicide............

Exactly! Drugs + ocean = easy. Knots + gag + noose + painting + hopping = Too hard. Add nudity and it was definitely not a suicide. How come we all knew that as soon as it hit the news? SDSO tied themselves in knots trying to show it was suicide. Greer is now untying those stupid knots!

 

[Lezah]

Not good news...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was a bit of a disaster today with the kinetics expert. Unfortunately, towards the very end of the day, the defence highlighted a pretty glaring error in his calculations regarding the force / velocity/ friction of RZ going over the balcony.

 

[Emi]

Not good news...

What is going on

 

[Verboten]

I recall there was discussion where the cops said they found the balcony door shut with latch down and lights off.

In order for the preposterous suicide to happen, victim would have to hogtie herself with hands and legs bound, noose around neck and shirt stuffed down threat, then hop about IN THE DARK, miraculously lift her whole tied up body up, fly over the balcony railing even though her center of gravity was too low, then somehow while dangling off railing with noose around neck somehow find a way to push down balcony door latch to shut the door behind her...because god forbid, she should leave the lights on because you know she needs to conserve electricity upon her death, and god forbid she should leave balcony door open and allow any breeze to enter the murder room in the summer...NOT.

And, after locking the door dispose completely of gloves she was wearing, since no fingerprints were there. Maybe she *ate* those? Kinda chewed around the gag somehow ...

 

[Verboten]

Not good news...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was a bit of a disaster today with the kinetics expert. Unfortunately, towards the very end of the day, the defence highlighted a pretty glaring error in his calculations regarding the force / velocity/ friction of RZ going over the balcony.

I read the UT article re: court today "Zahau could not have tipped herself over balcony in suicide, expert testifies": http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-suicide-20180313-story.html Sounded pretty bad about the error, but it also didn't seem to refute any of the points he was making substantially. Obviously a blow to his accuracy/professionalism. Do you think it rendered everything he said worthless? :-/

 

[minorone]

Mary posted an update on "Justice For Rebecca"

Day #2 of week #3 trial was long and another emotionally challenging day. The forensic kinesiologist, Dr Kent, testified that her injuries specifically her neck are not consistent with what the San Diego Sheriffs Department claims as a suicide with 9’2” long drop. The defendant’s attorneys asked him the same questions in many different variations and cross examined him for most of the day. They tried very hard to discredit him but he confirmed that the hyoid, thyroid, and cricoid bone fracture on Rebecca’s neck are not consistent with any hanging. One would see the hyoid and thyroid fracture but not all three. It is more consistent with two separate events. He also explained this type of long drop would have caused significant cervical bone damages and changes, possibly decapitation. He testified that the findings seen are more consistent with someone lowering her body.
I also found out yesterday and today that Dr Lucas, the San Diego county medical examiner, removed her throat so noone can do a second evaluation of these damages. Organs are removed and bagged, placed into the individual but not the throat/throat structure.

Tomorrow, deposition tapes will be played of several people including the neighbor who heard screams for “Help” the night Rebecca was killed. Please continue to pray and spread the link. Thank you again for rallying with me in this fight for “Justice for Rebecca Zahau”.

 

[Tricia]

THANK YOU LEZAH!!!!

We sre very lucky to have you reporting back to us about this case. You are incredible!!!

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Lezah]

Sorry, I posted too soon...!

...to continue..I managed to get to court today after all...so here’s some feedback...

Today was a very ‘tetchy’ day in court. It was a different attorney who handled the cross examination of the kinetics expert than yesterday. Mr Greer had the expert give a demo of where RZ was standing on a marked floor mat, with a ‘barrier’ style to demonstrate the height of the balcony rail. In summary he explained that it appeared she had been flipped over the balcony, and would be unable to go over unassisted due to her center of gravity and the rope ties restricting her...and he also thought that her fall had been broken in some way, or ‘slowed’ as her velocity should have caused more damage to her neck, and would have virtually decapitated her due to the 9’ drop.

He also echoed the croicoid fracture opinion of Dr Wecht. It was too low on the throat to be attributed to the rope position during the hanging.

There was quite a bit of bickering between Mr Greer and the defence, as the defence attorney kept trying to introduce a lady ( who actually looked quite like RZ(!)) that he had brought along to court to try and demonstrate / throw herself over the barrier set up in the court. He said she was 5’2” and the same weight...Mr Greer objected (saying you can’t say she was the same fitness level, flexibility strength etc and the set up was a ‘demonstrative’ not actual evidence, it was not a scientific method) . It was bizarre. the defense attorney tried to introduce her several times, and she stood up, and the judge said no...words to the effect of “ Hello, Thankyou for coming along, sit down, you’re not required’...

The judge told the attorneys off several times, one time as they huddled and vyed for position behind the expert witness as he tried to demonstrate at the defenses request how RZs fingers couldn’t fit on the knife blade the way he had described. He said they did and the defence said they didint... It was chaotic. No one could see, they kept instructing the witness, it was bonkers. The judge eventually shouted at them both to SIT DOWN!

The defense attorney also kept making statements and the judge had to keep ‘telling him off’ and advising the jury that ...’what an attorney says or does is NOT EVIDENCE’.

If she said it once she said it a hundred times. In one incident the expert and the attorney argued over the length of a measuring stick, the interaction between the defence and witness was just constant bickering with the Judge constantly telling the defence to wait to hear the witness’ answer before the next question, and to stop making statements ...and just ask questions..then telling the witness to stop and wait for the next question and just answer the question and stop embellishing and elaborating. This was repeated over and over again. It was hard work.

However, it was just ‘tetchy’ and bickering...until about 3 pm and the defence dropped an absolute bombshell. In the page of calculations the expert submitted to the court there was a mistake. The defence put his calculations on the big screen. The defence identified a mistake. He had written a 2 instead of a 7...but it was in a calculation of a six figure number ( to calculate the range of force / velocity / friction - lowest to highest range ) eg he should have used wrote 327658.16... but wrote 322648.16, mistakenly changing a 7 to a 2...this calculation was then used going forward to evaluate all the aspects... so they were all wrong from that point forward ( just in the lowest range...if that makes sense)

In one instance it seemed that there would have been several HUNDRED pounds of PSI ( pressure for want of a better word) differencial in the right calculations and those he has calculated ( on the exertion of the pull on the rope on RZs neck). It was devastating as the attorney highlighted all the errors in the calculations along the working out. I was cringing in my seat.

They then went on to attack the experts PHD, saying it came from a diploma mill identified by the feds...but this was overruled by the Jude as lacking foundation...but the jury still heard it...but we’re told to disregard it.

I didn’t get to hear the final response from Mr Greer as I had to go, but there was only 15 minutes of court left. I felt so so bad for the family and Mr Greer.

I’ve looked at the calculations, and the only good thing to come out of this is that in my interpretation of the figures...the error actually makes the fact that there was no spinal damage EVEN LESS LIKELY, and decapitation ( or partial decapitation) MORE likely...

From what I can figure out, the entry point range ( so the lower of the two levels showing the range of force on RZs neck for example) would actually be higher than he had estimated with the incorrect calculations.

I hope that makes sense? It’s very hard to explain... the workings appear in a court document...I can load the ROA title and maybe cynic can post it as I am having trouble posting add ins or images ( sorry guys)

The figures ‘went over’ an awful lot of people’s heads in my opinion...many were glazed over, it was very complicated to follow, what wasn’t though...was the fact there were mistakes, and the defence REALLY highlighted these to the best of their ability... and it was painful to watch. You could see how he missed this one number, it was an understandable mistake, but an inexcusable one from an expert.

I went today to try and get a better understanding of the ‘dynamics’ of the events - and the expert made some really great points early on, but I feel they were negated by the errors he made, his credibility was in the gutter.

Sorry to bring such negative opinions... be interested to see if the news picks it up... there was no reporter or camera in court today that I could see, so maybe it won’t be publicized.

On a final note, I’m of the understanding that there are several video depositions being played tomorrow and Thursday to include ( I believe) the lady who heard the scream and JS ( I thought I heard this mentioned in the court during planning discussions, but I can’t be certain)

It was also mentioned today that AS did not have the right notice or information / exhibits list (?) to take the stand, so his testimony is likely not going to be tomorrow...but later...

Best to all, and hope my opinion and interpretation of the court proceedings in interesting for you all.

 

[K_Z]

Mary posted an update on "Justice For Rebecca"

Day #2 of week #3 trial was long and another emotionally challenging day. The forensic kinesiologist, Dr Kent, testified that her injuries specifically her neck are not consistent with what the San Diego Sheriffs Department claims as a suicide with 9&#8217;2&#8221; long drop. The defendant&#8217;s attorneys asked him the same questions in many different variations and cross examined him for most of the day. They tried very hard to discredit him but he confirmed that the hyoid, thyroid, and cricoid bone fracture on Rebecca&#8217;s neck are not consistent with any hanging. One would see the hyoid and thyroid fracture but not all three. It is more consistent with two separate events. He also explained this type of long drop would have caused significant cervical bone damages and changes, possibly decapitation. He testified that the findings seen are more consistent with someone lowering her body.
I also found out yesterday and today that Dr Lucas, the San Diego county medical examiner, removed her throat so noone can do a second evaluation of these damages. Organs are removed and bagged, placed into the individual but not the throat/throat structure.

Tomorrow, deposition tapes will be played of several people including the neighbor who heard screams for &#8220;Help&#8221; the night Rebecca was killed. Please continue to pray and spread the link. Thank you again for rallying with me in this fight for &#8220;Justice for Rebecca Zahau&#8221;.

BBM. Wow. So, *where* is that larynx specimen? Where did it go? At the time of the first autopsy, Rebecca's death was still considered a murder investigation.

Are there pictures of the larynx from Lucas' autopsy??

It's not listed as a "specimen sent" on the autopsy by Dr. Lucas.

Yes, typically organs are placed back in the body cavity (abdomen) once dissected out and examined, tissue samples taken if needed, etc. Or they are noted as specimens sent. (Remember the love and attention the uterine polyp received?)

This is hugely interesting. Did Dr. Wecht address this at all? At this point, I'm assuming if the larynx was not present at his second autopsy, he must have used Dr. Lucas' exam comments only, or pictures. And maybe that's sufficient, IDK. Just seems mighty odd that her larynx, the site of her death injuries, is discarded.

Just another intriguing twist in this case.

 

[Lezah]

THANK YOU LEZAH!!!!

We sre very lucky to have you reporting back to us about this case. You are incredible!!!

Thank you,
Tricia

Thank you so much for your lovely words. I hope my feedback is interesting, I’m no expert compared to you guys so I do hope you will make allowances for me!!

 

[Lezah]

I read the UT article re: court today "Zahau could not have tipped herself over balcony in suicide, expert testifies": http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-suicide-20180313-story.html Sounded pretty bad about the error, but it also didn't seem to refute any of the points he was making substantially. Obviously a blow to his accuracy/professionalism. Do you think it rendered everything he said worthless? :-/

Thanks for this post. I saw this lady in court, I didn’t realize she was a reporter ( will know next time!) it’s a pretty accurate article and she covers the other positive points too. Hopefully my feedback fills in some of the gaps.

 

[Lezah]

Message for Cynic if he can help - ROA 886 motion in limine No4 - exhibit E shows the motion experts calculations...

 

[Lezah]

BBM. Wow. So, *where* is that larynx specimen? Where did it go? At the time of the first autopsy, Rebecca's death was still considered a murder investigation.

Respectfully snipped ( hope that’s right!)

WOW from me as well! DR W did say that the organs were not available to him, but he didn't specify ( he said the organs and the brain were not available)