Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Mica]

Question for Mr. Greer...

As K_Z has questioned, does Mr. Greer know what happened to Rebecca’s throat specimen? Does he know why it would be discarded and not put back into the bag with the other organs that were placed back inside the body? It was still an ongoing investigation at that time, IIRC. Nothing should have been discarded.

 

[Lolliknows]

Thank you!! I’ve been following this case very diligently since it happened and finally decided to join the forum. I have quite a bit of inside information, nothing I feel is pertinent enough to bring up at this point, except lots of u answered questions and theories like all of you experts! I know Dina through a very close friend of mine that was with her when Max’s accident occurred, and that went to the house that same day. She claims that the chandelier was not on the ground as it was stated previously, but hanging in the ceiling. I also had several conversations with Dina, and have only the greatest respect and sympathy for her as I know Maxie was the love of her life. I knew about the contentious relationship she had w JS long before they were even divorced, (hearsay from Dina herself and our mutual friend, and can only say JS is not someone anyone would want to be on bad terms with. As for AS I had suspicions since day 1. Coming to offer “moral support” but only staying long enough to be there during Rebecca’s murder? Never going to see Max at the hospital? Texting Jonah to tell him Rebecca had hung herself? How did he supposedly know that she had hung herself? Wasn’t he asleep on ambien? Did he sleepwalk and see her tie herself up and fly over the balcony like an acrobat? What if someone else had tied her up and viciously murdered her? He was in the guest house sleeping, (so he says) so theoretically any other person could have come into the house or even been let in by Rebecca. AS just coming to the conclusion from the minute he dialed 911 is so telling. And let’s all agree that a “normal” person doesn’t refer to their nephew as “the kid” but says “my nephew” or my brother’s son. It doesn’t jive with the “moral support” intention, unless the moral support was to get rid of the woman that was not able to prevent his brother’s son’s death.

 

[Mica]

I work overnights 7p to 7a, have done so for 9 yrs, and STILL often have to reorient myself (as in, "is this Tuesday now or ... ???") I think AS never slept so thought Max's accident was the day prior, "yesterday" as he said in the 911 call.

This could very well be, but didn’t DS say AS took an Ambien that night?

 

[BBL]

I am having a hard time trying to work out the sequence of an attack .Reviewing the motion for summary judgement it appears the sequence may have occurred something like the following:

-Rebecca stands out on patio (dirty feet and footprints) and screams for help (neighbor hears the screams)
-hit over the head four times and knocked unconscious
-message is painted during this time
-sexually assaulted with knife handle and paint is transferred over to Rebecca’s body
-strangled
-rope tied to bed
-Rebecca is bound and hog tied
-hoisted over the balcony


Where does Rebecca holding the knife toward her back come into the sequence?



https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...onado-Mansion-Mysterious-Death-475576263.html

Thoughts?

So many thoughts! Bear with me LOL.

I lean towards this cadence as well. A few (a lot) posts back I suggested similar that Rebecca escapes and ran outside because I seem to recall the bottom of her feet being dirty. Running to hide outside was the only thing I could think of because the balcony in the guest bedroom wasn't disturbed. Inparadise suggested she ran out to the balcony in the master bedroom, thus making her feet dirty, and that is where she screamed for help. That makes sense when thinking of the proximity of the neighbors hearing the scream.

So now my thought is that Adam surprised her in the shower, she ran screaming for help on the balcony. He grabbed her and dragged her into the guest bedroom (blood on the wall anyone?). Tied her up after a struggle (dog bone, knocked over chair) and then sat wondering what the heck to do.

Did he talk to JS? Perhaps Adam picked up Rebecca's phone when JS said he called Rebecca; There was no vm remember (this is why I was curious about the records from the house phone/land lines.). Does anyone remember if they checked Rebecca's phone for fingerprints? Was it wiped clean?

JS then started the "machine".

At some point I do think Rebecca was able to grab the knife while Adam was distracted and try to cut her hands loose. She also likely tried to loosen the ropes, which is why her DNA would be around the knots. Adam then conked her over the head and knocked her out. He then had plenty of time to run around wiping stuff down. Maybe he didn't wear gloves the entire time? Still not convinced she was ever thrown over the balcony. Maybe he lowered her. Or perhaps he climbed up on to the table to hang her and then let her drop from there. IDK.

I totally agree that Adam never went to bed. Hence the confusion on "yesterday".

I seem to remember pictures of the balcony door very early on, when the helicopter was flying overhead and kids were on a neighboring roof. I think that is where we saw pictures that the door was closed? It was very early so the investigation would have just gotten started, therefore no reason for the door to be closed. Later pictures show it open. Not sure what to make of that.

Sorry for my rambling speculation. All I know is that Rebecca wanted to commit suicide there is a big, beautiful bridges a few minutes away.

 

[BBL]

Question for Mr. Greer...

As K_Z has questioned, does Mr. Greer know what happened to Rebecca’s throat specimen? Does he know why it would be discarded and not put back into the bag with the other organs that were placed back inside the body? It was still an ongoing investigation at that time, IIRC. Nothing should have been discarded.

I second this question!!!

 

[*Lash*]

Questions about the balcony doors being opened or closed were asked in this 2011 article. Also about the rope not showing. The detectives gave some good answers but then followed up discussing evidence that was NOT tested. The women’s clothing, make up wipes, a glass with clear liquid all found in the guesthouse NOT analyzed or tested. Their answer, Jonah told them.

Snip-

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

Questions linger in Coronado mansion hanging death

Some online observers have questioned the evidence photos themselves.

Three photos posted on the Sheriff's web site show the French doors of the mansion's balcony in three different positions.

One exterior photo – Nesbit said it was taken by a Coronado police officer before 9:20 a.m. on July 13 – shows one of the balcony's doors open.

A second photo – taken during darkness sometime after 3:32 a.m. on July 14 – was shot from inside the bedroom and shows both balcony doors closed.

A third photo – also taken after 3:32 a.m. on July 14 – shows both doors wide open.

Lt. Nesbit explained the sequence of events to News 8.

 

[MsFacetious]

I totally agree that Adam didn't go to sleep that night and that's why he said "yesterday."
I do that myself all the time, until I go to bed it's still the same day. Whether it's 10pm or 6am the following morning.

I also agree that I think Becky was hogtied BEFORE she was killed.
Likely after being hit over the head. I think she tried to cut herself free while hogtied.
I think her being surprised in the shower is also the most likely starting point.

Does Greer have an expert to testify about the 911 call and how that implicates Adam?

 

[Verboten]

My impression of the 911 call
The 911 operator can't locate the records because Max's accident happened two days previous, not yesterday. Adam would know this because there is no mistaking that he knew it didn't happen the day he flew in. I think he is still mentally in yesterday (which would then make it true that Max's accident happened yesterday) because he has not slept that night. He would be accessing his true memory to give accurate information about Max's accident to get this assistance.

Excellent post all around, but THIS point is absolutely brilliant. I always assumed Adam stayed up all night, but didn't put together the "yesterday" in his call as a tell. This really kind of pulls it all together.

 

[Imp]

I totally agree that Adam didn't go to sleep that night and that's why he said "yesterday."
I do that myself all the time, until I go to bed it's still the same day. Whether it's 10pm or 6am the following morning.

I also agree that I think Becky was hogtied BEFORE she was killed.
Likely after being hit over the head. I think she tried to cut herself free while hogtied.
I think her being surprised in the shower is also the most likely starting point.

Does Greer have an expert to testify about the 911 call and how that implicates Adam?

BBM ~ @Tricia: I have this question as well for Mr. Greer.

MsFacetious: I agree she was hogtied before she was killed, but the tie would've had to remain in place after death in order for her knees to fix in the bent position.

The hogtie thing is just all kinds of weird and disturbing and unthinkable and did I mention disturbing? It seems to me it might've been done as part of the sexual assault or simply to further humiliate her. Or I suppose it's possible she was escaping from the tape placed on her legs and/or the wrist or ankle ropes and so he added the hogtie.

I swear I've been losing more sleep than usual since the hogtie thing arose. Just beyond comprehension. Heinous.

 

[Verboten]

I also agree that I think Becky was hogtied BEFORE she was killed.
Likely after being hit over the head. I think she tried to cut herself free while hogtied.
I think her being surprised in the shower is also the most likely starting point.

Does Greer have an expert to testify about the 911 call and how that implicates Adam?

I agree she was hogtied before killed -- why else do it? It was done to prevent escape and/or humiliate and/or for sexual reasons. I am wondering if she grabbed the knife blade to cut through duct tape -- maybe even successfully? Then, she was tied with rope... Just speculation.

I believe she was subdued and gagged after the scream and the music was played to keep neighbors from hearing any activity as she was abused, killed, and from whatever scene staging had to occur.

As for whether Greer has an expert to testify about the 911 call, I'd love to hear about this, too. But, if he does have that, he may not be able to speak too much to it until after they testify.

 

[Tricia]

I second this question!!!

It is at the top of the list

 

[Emi]

Tricia have a question will it be Adam or Jonah Shacknai tomorrow on the stand

 

[Seattle1]

I'm a late-comer to the details in this case, so missed the early years of evidence analysis here at WS. I saw someone ask the question if lights were found on or off, but I was unaware that lights were off, door to balcony shut. Is that definitive? If so, then ... that's a wrap. Seriously? The balcony door found closed????

Verboten: really don't know if balcony door shut is definitive. If Greer had evidence it was, I definitely think this fact would have made his opening statement.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Thank you!! I’ve been following this case very diligently since it happened and finally decided to join the forum. I have quite a bit of inside information, nothing I feel is pertinent enough to bring up at this point, except lots of u answered questions and theories like all of you experts! I know Dina through a very close friend of mine that was with her when Max’s accident occurred, and that went to the house that same day. She claims that the chandelier was not on the ground as it was stated previously, but hanging in the ceiling. I also had several conversations with Dina, and have only the greatest respect and sympathy for her as I know Maxie was the love of her life. I knew about the contentious relationship she had w JS long before they were even divorced, (hearsay from Dina herself and our mutual friend, and can only say JS is not someone anyone would want to be on bad terms with. As for AS I had suspicions since day 1. Coming to offer “moral support” but only staying long enough to be there during Rebecca’s murder? Never going to see Max at the hospital? Texting Jonah to tell him Rebecca had hung herself? How did he supposedly know that she had hung herself? Wasn’t he asleep on ambien? Did he sleepwalk and see her tie herself up and fly over the balcony like an acrobat? What if someone else had tied her up and viciously murdered her? He was in the guest house sleeping, (so he says) so theoretically any other person could have come into the house or even been let in by Rebecca. AS just coming to the conclusion from the minute he dialed 911 is so telling. And let’s all agree that a “normal” person doesn’t refer to their nephew as “the kid” but says “my nephew” or my brother’s son. It doesn’t jive with the “moral support” intention, unless the moral support was to get rid of the woman that was not able to prevent his brother’s son’s death.

I’ve always thought it was extremely likely that what happened to RZ was probably plan B in a pinch. Don’t think it was originally supposed to go down the way it did.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Anne Bremner said early on that RZ died on her back because that’s where the livitity had settled.

This was in response to the poster who said they didn’t understand how her legs could have been bent. The quote didn’t make it in my post

 

[Hraefn]

Is the knife that had fingerprints on the blade the same knife that had blood on all four sides of the handle? TIA!

 

[Seattle1]

Mr. Greer has graciously agreed to an interview today after 4 pm. Please post any questions you may have.

Was the balcony door shut?

 

[Seattle1]

For the life of me I cannot understand why nobody is talking about Adam saying Rebecca hung herself in the guest house! Also how does he KNOW that SHE hung herself, couldn’t someone else have done it?? Pretty presumptive on his part so early on, unless, that is, he’s leading the LE to believe that.

My first reaction was that RZ was strangled/killed in the guest house. If one listens to both AS entire polygraph/interview and 911 call, there's obvious disparity. I believe AS first conversation on this day was with JS and NOT 911 operator. Also think RZ was cut down before the 911 call and not during the call. Let's never forget the guest house was not considered the "crime scene" by investigators and no evidence collected.

 

[Mica]

My first reaction was that RZ was strangled/killed in the guest house. If one listens to both AS entire polygraph/interview and 911 call, there's obvious disparity. I believe AS first conversation on this day was with JS and NOT 911 operator. Also think RZ was cut down before the 911 call and not during the call. Let's never forget the guest house was not considered the "crime scene" by investigators and no evidence collected.

I also think the guest house could have been a location of the crime for the reasons you state, in addition to the woman’s underwear found in a garbage can.

 

[Tortoise]

I totally agree that Adam didn't go to sleep that night and that's why he said "yesterday."
I do that myself all the time, until I go to bed it's still the same day. Whether it's 10pm or 6am the following morning.

I also agree that I think Becky was hogtied BEFORE she was killed.
Likely after being hit over the head. I think she tried to cut herself free while hogtied.
I think her being surprised in the shower is also the most likely starting point.

Does Greer have an expert to testify about the 911 call and how that implicates Adam?

bbm I don't think it needs an expert if AS is going to testify. It only takes a few questions from Mr Greer and the recording of the call placed into evidence and played to the jury.

Mr S, you were sure in your call that emergency services responded to your nephew "yesterday". Isn't it true that in your mind Max's accident happened "yesterday" because you did not sleep the night of Rebecca's murder? You went back to the guest house and waited for daylight to pretend that you discovered Rebecca's death.

Why did you need to say you took Ambien and you just woke up, if Rebecca's death was a suicide? Was it to impress upon everybody that you had been sleeping if they concluded she was murdered?

Those are the questions I would ask him.