WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #3

[snowme]

Hi raf,

What you write about "sgarro" can make sense to me because of something having been said about the Sodders (Mr. or Mrs. or both?) settling Mr. Cipriani's estate or something to that affect - some responsibility relating back to Mr. Cipriani anyway - and that not being properly dealt with by the Sodders. I'll have to go back thru the posts to find it but it's somethng that really stood out to me when I first began reading.

It's interesting to know that WV mafia was connected to Pittsburg mafia and that being the first destination in the US by the Cipriani's.

If I recall correctly there was a brother to Mrs. Sodder at the property the morning after the fire but I recall that he encouraged the Sodders to go with the idea that the children died in the fire. I don't recall reading that family gave much in the way of help in searching or supporting the idea that the children were living or anything but a fire had claimed them. The omertà, as you say, seemed to exist to me.

I appreciate your posting and offering your thoughts!

 

[raf]

Hi, thank you for reply...
I believe that for to understand and to know somethings abt Sodder's kidnapping it is necessary to know more abt the Cipriano and Sodder/Soddu heritage, knowing the names of relatives that came in USA and if someone was involved in some way with organized crime...
the Cipriano's and Sodder's relatives in USA was:
-Pasquale and Prospero LIGUORI settled in Pittsburg brothers of Mattea Cipriani nee LIGUORI ( imm. the Jul 14, 1906 with daughter Jennie), wife of Joseph CIPRIANO
-Massimino LIZZI settled in Pittsburg and brother in law of Joseph Cipriano; I believe that Massimino Lizzi married at Carolina Lizzi nee Cipriano ... sister of Joseph Cipriano
-Frank and Adamo CAMMISA cousins of Joseph Cipriano, also settled in Pittsburg and after moved in near area;
-Leonardo SODDU brother of George Sodder, also emigrated in USA; no more info abt he

this is matter for further investigation....
best regards,
raf

 

[Seifsister]

This may not be relate but interesting. My grandfather told me a story about how the mob came into the town in Avella Pa and had a hit on the police department. I can not remember the whole story but they ended up killing some cops and tring to burn the town down. He said all the citizens took up arms against them, I will have to ask my dad about this. I think it was in the 40's. I think they captured one of the guys.

Avella Pa is in the corner of pa near the WV line. We use to vist in the summer every year. It is a real small town the next biggest town was little washington.

 

[fox1950]

Hi! This is the first I have heard of a pig's heart. I thought that it was finally determined that the raw meat buried at the scene was a beef liver.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Hi! This is the first I have heard of a pig's heart. I thought that it was finally determined that the raw meat buried at the scene was a beef liver.

It was a beef liver. I have also stated numerous times that the Mafia and the coal miners did not get along back then. They were always feuding. This was first hand information given to me years ago.

 

[raf]

ah ok, pig's heart or beef's liver the meaning of this bad message is the same....better: in beef's liver the meaning is more bad, because the "liver" meaning rage, ire,so much hate...
raf

 

[Laura_Bean]

What if the Cipriani's were in the mob and were hiding from the mob because of something that happened? When Mr. Sodder came from Italy his name was originally Soddu and he changed it. Could Mrs. Sodder's brother have changed his name too? Perhaps there was a mistake. Let's say the mob is out to get the Cipriani's or whatever their last name was before they changed it and hid from the mob? And somehow, they believed they had tracked down the right family but instead found the Sodder's? I remember they said that Martha Lee's name was the SAME as one of the children in the Cipriani family. Perhaps that is how they tracked down the Sodder's and believed it to be the right family. Than they think their taking the Cipriani children when they took the Sodder children instead. And once you realize you make a mistake like that, hell your the mob, your not going to bring them back to their families. But the photograph. One of them may have felt bad enough because they stole the wrong kids, to send a photo. It's just a thought. A big blunder. A huge mistake. And they track down the wrong family and take the wrong children. That could be why the beef liver meant nothing to Mr. Sodder.

 

[Laura_Bean]

And that could explain the strange car following the children in the week before they were stolen.

 

[raf]

I cannot say abt that...
but some month ago, I explained to a WS member, by private message, that in Italy resulting a Giorgio Soddu ( same italian name of George Sodder) also of Sardinia isle, that the italian policy saying that he was emigrated in USA; he resulting anarchist for italian policy; the policy folder abt this Giorgio Soddu is of 1931/3 years...

For bad luck are no more infos on line abt this anarchist; it are only this data ( in italian):


denominazione Soddu Giorgio

estremi cronologici 1931-1933
nota archivistica
nel fascicolo è presente


Informazioni personali
data di nascita
luogo di nascita
luogo di residenza New York - Stati Uniti America
colore politico anarchico
condizione/mestiere/professione
annotazioni riportate sul fascicolo iscritto alla Rubrica di frontiera

Now maybe this is another different person totally... but with same italian name;
but maybe it is possible that the kidnappers thinked that George Sodder was the Giorgio Soddu anarchist??
Just a suggestion... but 1 thing is sure: the kidnapping making part of a plan very precise; for that, for as was made the kidnapping, the strange phoning to Jennie Sodder in Christmas Eve, the beef liver, let me understand that was very possible a kidnapping by italian peoples, italian peoples of organized crime....
but is only a my idea...
Best regards,
raf

 

[Laura_Bean]

That is entirely possible. I am just thinking if someone came to the US or was already here, and was hiding from the mob, the mob would search and search to make this person pay for whatever he did. And if George and his family were mistaken for the other family, well that could explain a lot.

 

[raf]

yes... it could be a explanation....

 

[fox1950]

Very interesting. What is a anarchist? I must admit I am not very educated on Italian terms or the mafia. Thanks

 

[Laura_Bean]

Now hold on... Also the guy who told Mr. Sodder "Your house will burn and your kids will pay". Remember? After George said something about Mussolini... Maybe that guy knew ppl in the mob or was a part of the mob, and he already suspected that George was the other guy, the one they were looking for. Almost like a foreshadowing because they already believed it was the guy they were looking for, and the plan was already set in motion. If that's the case, the guy knew exactly what he was saying and why, he knew the sodder's home would burn and the kids would go missing. Just a thought. It all ties together very well.

 

[Laura_Bean]

An anarchist = One who believes in or advocates the absence of government in all forms (compare anarchism), especially one who works toward the realization of such; One who disregards laws and social norms as a form of rebellion against authority; By extension from previous sense, one who promotes chaos

 

[raf]

Very interesting. What is a anarchist? I must admit I am not very educated on Italian terms or the mafia. Thanks

Anarchist is not a mafia word; it is a political word...
raf

 

[raf]

Now hold on... Also the guy who told Mr. Sodder "Your house will burn and your kids will pay". Remember? After George said something about Mussolini... Maybe that guy knew ppl in the mob or was a part of the mob, and he already suspected that George was the other guy, the one they were looking for. Almost like a foreshadowing because they already believed it was the guy they were looking for, and the plan was already set in motion. If that's the case, the guy knew exactly what he was saying and why, he knew the sodder's home would burn and the kids would go missing. Just a thought. It all ties together very well.

I knew not abt that.... so GS mentioned Mussolini?
Frankly I not found other Giorgio Soddu on ship's manifests.. I found 2 Giorgio Soddu, both of Tula, Italy, both with the Giovanni father's name, going in Detroit; in 1911 and 1913; but one having right age as GS, the other was 10 years more old... maybe same person and the age was wrong? laura you can say me the post in this forum abt this phrase:

"Your house will burn and your kids will pay".
I wish understand better the context...
thanks,
raf

 

[fox1950]

I knew not abt that.... so GS mentioned Mussolini?
Frankly I not found other Giorgio Soddu on ship's manifests.. I found 2 Giorgio Soddu, both of Tula, Italy, both with the Giovanni father's name, going in Detroit; in 1911 and 1913; but one having right age as GS, the other was 10 years more old... maybe same person and the age was wrong? laura you can say me the post in this forum abt this phrase:

"Your house will burn and your kids will pay".
I wish understand better the context...
thanks,
raf

Yes, George Sodder spoke badly of Mussolini which made some of the Italian community of Fayetteville very angry. I think the man (CJ) who threatened Mr. Sodder before the fire said-I see you will not settle the estate of your father-in-law (Cipriani). (He was also angry about Mr. Sodder refusing to buy life insurance for the children). You will pay for the things you have said about Mussolini. Your house will burn and your children will be destroyed. I can look up the direct quote. Seems some of the Italian community did not like Mr. Sodder.

I have alway found the fact that he said" and your children will be destroyed" very interesting but just can't figure out why it bothers me. I would have thought he would have said-your house will burn destroying you and your family. But everyone has a different why of speaking and expressing themselves.

 

[raf]

ok fox1950 thank you!
I read not all postings here, so I missed somethings...
CJ was of italian heritage also... in the J's family in WV was also a FJ; well he married in Covington, Kenton, Kentucky, in the 1917 ... after settled in Fayetteville, WV .. it is possible that the J's had some relative in Kentucky around 1970?

This is the only link that I can find abt Sodder case and Kentucky (by Louis Sodder picture) ...
raf

 

[snowme]

Yes, George Sodder spoke badly of Mussolini which made some of the Italian community of Fayetteville very angry. I think the man (CJ) who threatened Mr. Sodder before the fire said-I see you will not settle the estate of your father-in-law (Cipriani). (He was also angry about Mr. Sodder refusing to buy life insurance for the children). You will pay for the things you have said about Mussolini. Your house will burn and your children will be destroyed. I can look up the direct quote. Seems some of the Italian community did not like Mr. Sodder.

I have alway found the fast that he said" and your children will be destroyed" very interesting but just can't figure out why it bothers me. I would have thought he would have said-your house will burn destroying you and your family. But everyone has a different why of speaking and expressing themselves.

These points all seem to fit together very neatly - like puzzle pieces finally displaying the picture. Until your post, worded as it is, it never seemed so clear to me. Am I alone in that? I admit it's all seem so scattered and felt as if it could in this direction or that, depending on the various pieces of theories and info, but today... to me, this seems like the answer.

 

[fox1950]

ok fox1950 thank you!
I read not all postings here, so I missed somethings...
CJ was of italian heritage also... in the J's family in WV was also a FJ; well he married in Covington, Kenton, Kentucky, in the 1917 ... after settled in Fayetteville, WV .. it is possible that the J's had some relative in Kentucky around 1970?

This is the only link that I can find abt Sodder case and Kentucky (by Maurice Sodder picture) ...
raf

Interesting--I never knew FJ was married in Kentucky. That is food for thought.