WV WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

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Ohio has great public records laws and hopefully, west virginia has something similar and hopefully the records still exist!! Old records are hard because the state does not require you to keep them forever, so they may not even have them anymore!


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YOu are right about the information being possibly redacted. but you are also right that if you got copies of the reports with the names blacked out, you could use a lot of the information on THIS site and piece together the right names.

And Falcon500, you are right that if you go straight to the WV state police site, they have an online form you can fill out for requests for information. It is a little pricey but I may go ahead and try it.

I know when Stacey Horn was doing her NPR story on this case several years ago, the WVSP allowed her to see their files (with no black outs). but I don't think they let her copy them.



Bob the case is so old that a legitimate request from researcher (you) might be all it takes. Make a phone call and you might get the right guy and he may say, "sure come on in".
 
Anything in the works for getting these files?


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I have had some luck in getting some additional files. I got several reports related to the FL Cipriani theory that the children were taken there after the fire. The upshot of it is that police said they investigated every angle of that theory and found nothing to lead them to beleive they children were there. ( To get these, I promised I would not post the originals)

I have also been trying to get information on Troy Simmons, one of the investigators and the head of the WV Merchant Police in the 1950s to see if maybe a decendent of his may have copies of his various reports. Unfortunately, it appers he had no children. so I am trying to contact his only living sibling to see if he kept personal files.
 
To me one of the most interesting things I've found so far are two Charleston gazette Newspaper articles that state there will so be arrests in the case. Im attaching that article. Someone sometime though there was enough evidence to arrest five people for "Conspiricy to Cause Bodily Harm". They called it a violation of the Redman Act. Anyone know what that is???
 

Attachments

  • 3-5-1950 Possible arrests Zoom.pdf
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Sorry, the attachement ended up sideways. Troy Simmons was involved in these possible arrests and is quoted in the article. That's why I have been trying to find someone who may have any files he might have kept. The arrests obviously were not made and I just wanted to see if the people to be arrested were the same ones who have been mentioned as suspects.
 
AddysMom, are you in contact with Granddaughter? you can send me a private message if you wish or email me.
 
Been a long time since I've looked at this case; one of the easiest ways these days to see if any Sodder kids survived & were told they were adopted or whatever; would be for the survivors to submit DNA to 23 $99 and me; upload raw data to family tree $99 then upload to various free sites.
 
As anyone who has read the older posts on this board know, about 3 months after the fire at the Sodders house, baby Sylvia found an object that has come to be known or identified as a military style "pineapple", or thought to be an incendiary or napalm device that might have been used to start the fire on the roof of the house. Which would tie together the eye witness report of someone seeing "fireballs being tossed onto the roof".

while the device was described as military green and burned on one end, it was also described as being plastic. this would mean it would in all probability been destroyed in the fire, but was not. Also, a little research shows that napalm was not invented until about 1942 and in 1945, it still could not be delivered in a hand grenade type device. It had to be delivered from an airplane type bomb.

However, there were other versions of hand held incendiary type devices available suring that time period. (Research on Wiki-pedia to find out). Being from this area, and in making a trip to the Fayetteville area last week, I re-discovered a place I had known from my childhood. During the time I was growing up in this area (The 1960's), there was a National Guard Armory located between Boomer, WV and Falls View (About 19 miles from where the Sodder house was located). I remember it because it was the first time I ever saw a real tank and army trucks and such. Today, the building and property is a WV Department of Highways Maintenance building. (I've attached a picture of it).

I don't know if this armory was there in 1945. And, I don't know what all was contained inside it, weapons, grenades, or what. But if it was there at the time, and it contained such a device, this would give someone an means and opportunity to obtain a device such as this. I know it's kind of a reach but I just thought I would throw that out.
 

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  • National Guard Armory Falls View.jpg
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Hello,
I am new to Websleuths and just read about this case today while researching for a book.

The writing on the back of the photograph looks to me like an entry on an old library card catalogue. The format is name of author, name of book, poem, story, etc., and "Ilil" could possibly be abbreviation for "illustrated" which is listed when a book or publication contains illustrations. Usually the abbreviation is "illus." but perhaps the writing is smudged or the letters were transposed by a typist's mistake? The number A90132 is similar to the call number of a publication.

I found an archive of copyrights on the Library of Congress website and the listings for publications read VERY similarly to the writing on the back of that photograph. In fact, there are publications with the call number A90132. The "or 35" could be explained if the person writing on the back of the photograph couldn't quite make out the last digit, whether it was a "2" or a "5".

Could there be some work of writing - i.e. a children's story, poem, etc. titled "I Love Brother Frankie"? It sounds like it could be the name of a children's book.

Just a thought … I would be interested to know if this has occurred to anyone else, or if this sparks any other ideas amongst those on this forum. Thanks!
 
Falcon, Believe it or not, I did just what you said. I first thought of requesting to see the state police files but through my lodge, I made a contact with the WVSP and obtained what that had on the case. some of it I already had, some of it was new stuff based on the Florida connection to the case. and it was all free.

My next step is to try to access the Fire Marshalls office for copies of their files.
 
Bad new today. I contacted the Fire Marshall's office and asked how to get copies of their records. the guy told me to just tell him what I wanted and he would see if they had it. I told him about the case briefly and he said they had FOIA request back at this past Christmas from the CHarleston Gazette and he thought they found no records available to give them.
 
Bob,
Thats frustrating. Was this the state fire marshal or the local fire dept?
 
I'
m afraid it was the State Fire Marshal.

One possibility, at the time the fire happened in 1945, the Fire Marshal's office was headed under the WV Insurance Commission. (I actually found a newspaper article today from 1948 where the State Insurance Commissioner at the time appointed Mr. C.A. Raper to the position of Acting Fire Marshal. Maybe the records are stored with those of the insurance commission. Worth a try but I'm running out of sources. the best one might still be George Bragg. I'm planning to go see him this weekend.
 
Bob,
Youre a great researcher, Im sure you and George will have many theories to toss back and forth.
 
I did hit one home run. back in the 60's this case was covered in two so-called "detective magazines". One of the articles has already been posted on Web sleuths several years ago. the other seemed lost to time. I finally found a copy of the other magazine in question on Ebay and bought it. As soon as I have it, I will scan it and try to post it on Websleuths. It may be simply a rehash of previously known information but there might be some pieces of information in there. We will see.
 
I did hit one home run. back in the 60's this case was covered in two so-called "detective magazines". One of the articles has already been posted on Web sleuths several years ago. the other seemed lost to time. I finally found a copy of the other magazine in question on Ebay and bought it. As soon as I have it, I will scan it and try to post it on Websleuths. It may be simply a rehash of previously known information but there might be some pieces of information in there. We will see.
Bob, any updates on the article? It's been two months, I imagine you've received it by now. Very curious about any insights you can share with us.
 
http://media001.f4wonline.com/free/102418afterdark.mp3
A link to an interview on After Dark Radio "with special guest Daniel Zaleski, who is working on a documentary on the mysterious disappearance of the Sodder children nearly a half century ago! Tons to discuss, many unanswered questions, and many mysteries to consider." The link will only be around for a few more days, but I thought it was pretty interesting. I only had basic knowledge of the case before listening, so it was cool to hear the various potential theories discussed. This site is referenced a few times in it.
 
Very interesting story...can't believe I just stumbled onto it after all these years.

Couple thoughts after reading about it for a few days. I feel like with all the sketchy accounts and reporting around this case, there may well never be a definitive answer. I think the best that we might ever get is a theorized explanation that actually sounds plausible. My gut feeling on this is that a LOT of the speculation/reporting is leading people down a path toward extremely wild conclusions. I feel like the vast majority of the time the solution, if not the simplest solution, is something that when you hear it at least makes sense in the historical world we live in...in this case lived in in 1945. Most things that happen, no matter how bizarre or unusual or shocking, do not happen just one time...they've happened before, or since. How can we look at this case and come up with a scenario that is actually consistent with human nature and society and psychology and history as we know it.

For example...retribution for anti-Mussolini statements. This happened in 1945. Mussolini had been dead since April. He had been deposed from power two years earlier. By the time of the fire, Germany had declared war on Italy, and Italian American boys were fighting the Nazis in Italy. The idea that I keep reading that somehow Mussolini's long reach extended to West Virginia beyond the grave and snuffed out some mouthy small town businessman just doesn't hold water. It's true that Mussolini had supporters among U.S. Italians early in his rise to power, but he had support among all Americans for some time, thanks to his anti-communist successes. But by 1945, Mussolini's support in the U.S. was long over, thanks to the war, even among most Italian Americans. Now, could George have made some enemies with his early outburst against Mussolini? Possibly, but by the time of the fire, it would have been personal, not political. The actual issue of supporting Mussolini was a dead issue by that point.

And speaking of the mafia...semi-relevantly, the mafia also opposed Mussolini, with American and Italian mobsters actually helping the U.S. war effort in Sicily. So George wouldn't have gotten on the bad side of the mafia due to anti-Mussolini rhetoric. If he did cross the mafia, it would have been for other reasons.

Could he have gotten in bad with the Mafia? Now that is plausible. Any businessman ran the risk of crossing or alienating the mafia if he didn't play ball, and there are a half dozen scenarios at least where somebody like George could have gotten himself in a bad spot. And there was mafia in West Virginia.

So let's think through the Mafia issue and how that might have played a part in the story. I can't think of an incident in the history of the American mafia where they set a house on fire and kidnapped children under the guise of a fire. It just doesn't fit any standard mode of operation. Under almost any likely circumstance, a mafia reprisal would have been:

1) Beat George
2) Kill George
3) Attack the business

We've never heard that they did #1. We know they didn't do #2. Because his office was in his home, #3 is a possible fit.

From everything we know of the mafia though, the most likely approach would have been a "warning." In this scenario, the mafia response expected would have most likely been firebombing or possibly stealing one or both trucks. There are other ways of course that they could attack the business, but you'd at least expect attacking the trucks to be the most obvious. For the mafia to go straight to burning the house with 9 kids inside...that's way, way out of character, the kind of thing that only comes up (in the U.S.) in the most demented and sociopathic mafia guys, who are actually pretty rare and short-lived, considering their excesses are "bad for business." At this time, the mob was actually ascending towards it's apex into respectability and organization, when it was generally run (even with violence) like a business. Most of the true sociopathic elements came later, as drugs corrupted the members, and as law enforcement successes began pulling the best and brightest out of the organization.

But, I'm not totally unwilling to count the mafia out as a player in the fire. To be fair, we don't KNOW what Sodder's beef might have been. We don't know if he'd already faced reprisals, attacks on himself or his business. Especially if the nature of the beef was one of collaboration, and then disagreement, he would be loathe for those to be public. Most likely it was as simple as resisting extortion. But even if Sodder was completely innocent...you don't go to the police or the media. So it's not out of the possibility that firebombing the house WAS actually the last resort to bring Sodder into line.

Now, we don't even know if a Mafia beef was in play at all, but let's play it out anyway based on what we know from thousands of conflicts between the mafia and small businessmen. In extreme cases, they might be killed for resistance, but that's usually not ideal. The mafia want to make money...what they want is a guy in their pocket and paying tribute. A dead George Sodder doesn't put money in their pockets, at least like a live George Sodder could. But it definitely has happened. However, it is very rare for the mafia to go after the family, especially burning down a house full of kids. It would have been so much easier, and much more foolproof, to just take him out with a bullet to the head. So if the mafia did start the blaze, most likely:

1. It was believed the Sodders would not be home that night
2. It was not supposed to burn the house down, but just give them a scare...for example, it would not be unusual for the mafia to maybe throw an unlit malatov coctail, or plant an unarmed bomb as a warning to say "This is how easy it would be." Maybe something like that was planned, but it was poorly done or badly communicated, resulting in a true fire.


That stuff does happen. It's not uncommon for these things to get screwed up.

Now, even if the mafia DID start it...it doesn't change the question of what happened to the kids? There is really no history of the mafia kidnapping/selling kids, or even killing kids, as punishment, in the U.S. mafia. Not unheard of in Italy, but its not really a thing in the U.S. Now, kidnapping people for ransom, that's possible. But did George have the means to be kind of target? Doesn't seem so. Could they have been kidnapped possibly to extort cooperation, maybe. But if that was the case, then George would have known right away by getting the demand.

The only way that makes any sense that the mafia would actually be responsible for the disappearance of the kids is that something breaks bad (think Lindbergh kidnapping) and the kids are killed. Meaning George never gets a demand, and the mafia just tries to get as much distance from the whole incident as possible. Even so, if that had been the plan, to kidnap some of his kids to extort money or cooperation...is that the best way to do it? It seems like a horrible plan, in which they could have been killed by the fire, it could have been interrupted by do-gooders drawn to the fire, it just seems like a terrible terrible plan.

So while I could concede a scenario where the mafia was responsible for the fire, it seems very hard to make a case that they were responsible for the disappearance of the kids based on anything we know about how the mafia operates.

If we dismiss the Mussolini retribution, which I think we can, and we credit the mafia as either not involved or only involved up until setting the fire...what reasonable explanations are left of...what happened to the kids?
 

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