Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #50

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I don't know how to carry a post over from the previous thread, but thank you @Jurisprudence and @Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats for clarifying and further explaining "premeditation" in criminal cases.

So, if I understand correctly: the amount of time spent 'planning' the act beforehand is irrelevant when it comes to a premeditated crime?

Even if the perpetrator decided only a nanosecond before killing someone that that was what they were going to do, it would still be classed as premeditation?

Wouldn't that make ALL crimes premeditated?

It would make terms like "a crime of passion" null and void, right?

I'm thinking of this in terms of any potential defense of BL, should he be charged with GP's murder.

Could BL's lawyer claim it was a crime of passion on the grounds of provocation? I imagine a defence lawyer will absolutely use the scratches on BL's face during the Moab traffic stop to their advantage too.
Crime of Passion

MOO
MOO That "crime of passion" you reference is labeled as different things in different jurisdictions. There's also depraved heart, etc, etc. And premeditation is a highly debated topic. IMO I personally subscribe to the "it can be formed in an instant" theory but in reality many do NOT charge if they have to bank on this. And, this is because you could have serious proof problems with your jury.

Prosecutors deal with juries made up of real people - some of whom have preconceived notions of what constitutes premeditation. It's a risk. And, when it's cut close the decsion of what to charge someone with is IMOO, tricky business for sure. Some may not charge it NOT because they don't have what they need to meet the elements, but because they don't want to roll the dice on what the jury would do including, potentially (and erroneously) acquitting. MOO

Here's just one copy of the Federal pattern (model) jury instructions. This is what the Judge in a federal case would say in instructing the jury in a federal case (states may vary).

"Premeditation means with planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the killing." 8.107 Murder—First Degree | Model Jury Instructions

It doesn't mean advanced planning. It doesn't mean hours. And, herein lies the never-ending debate of "it can formed within seconds." IMOO

Wyoming pattern jury instructions are not publicly available on line from my quick search. So for context, I will next show you Florida's jury instructions (Instruction 7.2) (only because they are publicly available):

“Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so. The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing. The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing. The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.

The question of premeditation is a question of fact to be determined by you from the evidence. It will be sufficient proof of premeditation if the circumstances of the killing and the conduct of the accused convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of premeditation at the time of the killing."
Criminal Jury Instructions Chapter 7 – The Florida Bar

This is MOO. JMO. And, IMO. Not legal advice and not fact. Just Opinion.
 
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Has anyone seen any safety warnings go out to those along the Appalachian Trail or the reserve? I am concerned about the safety of the citizens who may encounter this POI. We already know of one dead individual; we don't want more before he is captured. Anyone see any warning to the public instructing them what to do if they encounter him?

Amateur opinion and speculation only

A well known, and listened to, AT enthusiast has mentioned this possibility in his report last week.
 
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We are trying to suss this out. A poster sent coordinates to some place named California, NC which is in WNC not far from the AT sighting by Dennis Davis, near a town called Mars Hill. But I do not understand what it is.

? A crossroads? An area? An unincorporated community? Curious what importance you put on that.
 
This whole case is so baffling to me.

I genuinely go from one minute being completely appalled by the behaviour of the parents, to the next minute feeling sorry for them, and then back to appalled again.

This case is an emotional roller-coaster.

Please tell me it's not just me that feels like this!? :eek:
Definitely not just you. :(
 
found this for Florida:

While a drone can fly over your house, a drone owner can’t use a drone to threaten or harass you. In addition, a drone owner can’t use a drone to capture images of a person if the same view wouldn’t be available from a public place. There is no prohibition on flying drones over houses in general; however, there are significant restrictions that protect the privacy of homeowners, including trespass, stalking, and privacy laws.

Yes, it is legal to fly a drone over private property in Florida. However, trespassing and nuisance laws apply to drone use over private property. In addition, under U.S. laws for small, unmanned aircraft, it’s illegal to fly a drone over a person who is not participating in the drone operation. Also, it’s illegal to use the drone to take a photo of any person on private property in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. While you can fly a drone over private property, there are significant restrictions, including restrictions on gathering images.

Florida Drone Laws | Jack Bernstein, Injury Attorneys

They went inside, I’m curious if they reported it to LE or spoke to one on site.
 
Altho BL could be a poser as to survivalist skills, the facts we have been told lead me to think he was/is well prepared to expect a very long sojurn of "running". My bets are that even if bipolar etc, he still is quite intentional and foxy enough to continue this run until winter begins to set in. My bets are with BL having already arrived in a warm climate, well known for jungles and safe houses. A survivalist looks ahead 6 months. He saw winter. Thus, he early on to Central or South America with the help of his brother in law, raised in Central America. The only reason he might "get lost"in AT or similar would be bc he is utterly co-dependent. If he has a medical history, and required meds, where would he get refills.
 
1,000% agree. MOO - Think the witness accounts, coupled with her refusing to walk away from her van, her phone, and her personal belongings in the van, put this clearly into focus. Then her own words on body cam 2 - she did not want to be separated even after all that occurred. She was just as terrified of being abandoned as she was being left alone to find her own way home. None the fear was out a love loss for or by him in MOO.

I would love to know if any of her belongings were still in the van when Brian drove it back.

If yes, then he was still clinging to the notion that he had a girlfriend, that Gabby was vaguely present, and he could tolerate looking at her things. I would like to know if her decor was still there.

If no, then it seems to me that if he wanted to erase her and never contact her family, he would get rid of all her things.
 
? A crossroads? An area? An unincorporated community? Curious what importance you put on that.

Just because there are intentional communities in WNC that might not be inclined to turn in a fugitive from justice. So the guy Dennis Davis met said he was looking to go to California, and supposedly there is some place in WNC called that. Let's see how deep that rabbit hole goes...
 
Has anyone seen any safety warnings go out to those along the Appalachian Trail or the reserve? I am concerned about the safety of the citizens who may encounter this POI. We already know of one dead individual; we don't want more before he is captured. Anyone see any warning to the public instructing them what to do if they encounter him?

Amateur opinion and speculation only
I’m so glad you brought that up. I’ve been thinking the same thing. I mean trained police officers went after him armed wearing body armor. Even when an alert is for a missing person with mental health problems, an advisory how to approach individual is issued on the alert.
 
I get what you're saying, I truly do.

This whole case is so baffling to me.

I genuinely go from one minute being completely appalled by the behaviour of the parents, to the next minute feeling sorry for them, and then back to appalled again.

This case is an emotional roller-coaster.

Please tell me it's not just me that feels like this!? :eek:

I feel empathy for them as parents in an absolute sense, but that is overwhelmed by frustration with and doubt of them as a result of their curious conduct.
 
Right. She hadn't been on the planet long enough to distinguish between acceptable and destructive in a relationship. jmo

That is why we have parents.

Just remember, he was young too. I know some have this impression that he was strong and dominant and she was weak and naive.

I don't see either as completely true.
 
I have the same reaction. And I know the easy counter-comment is "on the advice of their attorney"/keeping up appearances, etc. But there is nfw, if my hypothetical son were wanted by the FBI, the subject of a multi-jurisdictional manhunt relating to the suspicious homicide of his girlfriend, that I would just go outside and start weeding like just another early fall day. ESPECIALLY if I had the slightest concern about his health or safety.

And fwiw, I am an attorney and was previously married to a prosecutor. I understand legal strategy & tactics, and also how investigations and prosecutions work. I am pretty sanguine and have a lot of grit & grace under pressure.

The Laundries' behavior is beyond.

I do understand the need to get outside and stretch/move. But it's not exactly been a year of being cooped up, so not that unendurable.

It's just so peculiar and tonedeaf besides.


Peculiar is the word!

Not only is it a multi-jurisdictional manhunt and a big deal in the States, but it's worldwide news too - I'm thousands of miles away in a rural countryside village in northern England, and this case has completely consumed me.

PS - I guessed you were an attorney with your legal knowledge ;)
 
IMO, either he made up the story or the guy in the truck made of the story. It was just too detailed and close to media reports to be real.
But IMO unless people have been living under a rock and not paying attention to all of the legal stuff that has been publicly happening in this country for the past 4 years, he should know that lying to the FBI is an automatic crime. Federal sentencing guidelines can go up to 5 years if you have a record, 0-6 months if this is a first offense (I really do not want to pull up the federal sentencing guidelines so please snip if this is not allowed) and I just can't see this guy offering himself up for a crime. I don't see it. MOO He could be mistaken but I don't think he's lying. Just my gut. No proof or facts. MOO
 
IF GP did indeed call her during the incident as has been reported, and IF NS said something like what she's saying now (spat from traveling in close quarters etc) psychologically NP probably has to see the incident as unrelated to GP's death. Otherwise she might feel she should have said something different to GP, that maybe she could have changed the outcome if she had. I don't think she could have but I also don't think the cops who didn't make an arrest could have changed the outcome. But the guilt would eat NP alive thinking what if.
JMO

Not disagreeing with you, in general, but I don't think Gabby's body had been found when she said that.
 
They have had to deal with whatever his disorder is all his life, probably. And be the fixers. They are probably so accustomed to his weirdness that not much surprises them. Probably didn't expect him to murder his girlfriend...but to lie about where she is and what happened and run from the responsibility.....is just par for the course. Maybe they are all cried out, and numb. jmo
We can argue what we "know" about their dynamic and how they're behaving, but at the end of the day, BL and BL alone is responsible. All the blame towards the family is still of his creation and I think it's worth reminding everyone of that.
 
HOW on earth can BL's parents be so calm when their son is out there being hunted!? Literally.

Time and time again I ask myself this, and time and time again I draw the same conclusion: they're not worried because they think they don't need to worry because they know he's safe somewhere.

They're chilling out gardening today in North Port whilst bounty hunters are talking about shooting their son dead!!

It is absolutely beyond belief, and utterly defies logic as far as how parents should be reacting!!

Sorry for all the exclamation marks, but I just cannot fathom their behaviour and apparent indifference and disregard for his welfare. I wonder if their behaviour towards him has always been this cold?

Even if I had secured my 'on the run son' some kind of safe house or bolt hole he was laying low in, I'd still be freaking out every minute of the day worrying that someone had tracked him down somehow.

I can only conclude they have very regular contact with him to allay any concerns they may have - but how!? How are they managing to maintain contact when they're being smothered by LE and the media??

JMO

I’m really starting to think he is *SOMEHOW* hidden in their house or in his sisters.
 
Something I just thought about: (storage locker post somebody made led me ponder this)

We have focused a LOT on communications between GP and her family.

and a LOT on communications with BL and his family after he got to Florida Sep 1st.

Let's imagine for a moment...

BL is in a hotel for the night (from the police stop), and police just told him he is victim. Now, if you were BL, would you call your parents and/or sister and tell them what happened? After all, it would make you look like the good guy. As unbelievable a story as that was, I'm wondering what communications went on between BL and his parents after that stop.

specifically: Did he call his parents and discuss the police stop?
Did the parents then say: You had better come home and clear that storage unit? for some reason?

Then he made plans to go home and clear the storage unit?

What would/could be the reason to clear the storage unit? (as said earlier, his airfare would have probably paid for the unit, so it probably wasn't about costs.)

Were the storage locker unit and the possessions in it something we overlooked as important?

Was emptying the storage unit a calculated move for something other than saving the rental costs?

What was in the unit that BL possibly needed to control, and why?

Why leave in the middle of a cross country trip to spend money (that you just told police officers you did not have) to empty a storage unit? (not to mention the money spent on GP being in a hotel during that time)

Could the Laundrie parents have been coaching BL since the police stop instead of since Sep 1st? BL got the money to fly home from somewhere.

Any way to roughly calculate when the things went in the storage unit?

Something smells...

thanks to the OP (@lonetraveler) for bringing up the storage unit!

I think the storage unit was an excuse to get BL home for a few days, split Gabby and BL up, let them cool off and re-evaluate after the serious Moab incident. imo
 
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