Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #50

[Newsjunkiejen]

MOO That "crime of passion" you reference is labeled as different things in different jurisdictions. There's also depraved heart, etc, etc. And premeditation is a highly debated topic. IMO I personally subscribe to the "it can be formed in an instant" theory but in reality many do NOT charge if they have to bank on this. And, this is because you could have serious proof problems with your jury.

Prosecutors deal with juries made up of real people - some of whom have preconceived notions of what constitutes premeditation. It's a risk. And, when it's cut close the decsion of what to charge someone with is IMOO, tricky business for sure. Some may not charge it NOT because they don't have what they need to meet the elements, but because they don't want to roll the dice on what the jury would do including, potentially (and erroneously) acquitting. MOO

Here's just one copy of the Federal pattern (model) jury instructions. This is what the Judge in a federal case would say in instructing the jury in a federal case (states may vary).

"Premeditation means with planning or deliberation. The amount of time needed for premeditation of a killing depends on the person and the circumstances. It must be long enough, after forming the intent to kill, for the killer to have been fully conscious of the intent and to have considered the killing." 8.107 Murder—First Degree | Model Jury Instructions

It doesn't mean advanced planning. It doesn't mean hours. And, herein lies the never-ending debate of "it can formed within seconds."

Wyoming pattern jury instructions are not publicly available on line from my quick search. So for context, I will next show you Florida's jury instructions (Instruction 7.2) (only because they are publicly available):

“Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so. The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing. The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing. The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.

The question of premeditation is a question of fact to be determined by you from the evidence. It will be sufficient proof of premeditation if the circumstances of the killing and the conduct of the accused convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of premeditation at the time of the killing."
Criminal Jury Instructions Chapter 7 – The Florida Bar

This is MOO. JMO. And, IMO. Not legal advice and not fact. Just Opinion.

And THIS is why I didn't study law haha

So complex!

(Thanks once again)

 

[Jurisprudence]

Someone posted that the FBI may have to give warning that they are coming.

Not sure but IMOO there is certainly a recent microscope on the execution of no-knock warrants IMO.

 

[CanadianWells]

This! And also his voice is fairly distinct too.

Ooohhhh you're right. That's another thing I had sort of glossed over, and this new sighting said the voice clip he received matched. Interesting. I didn't think the new sighting person was lying, but I thought it was probably some random without a license doing exactly what he said he was. Hmmmm

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I get what you're saying, I truly do.

This whole case is so baffling to me.

I genuinely go from one minute being completely appalled by the behaviour of the parents, to the next minute feeling sorry for them, and then back to appalled again.

This case is an emotional roller-coaster.

Please tell me it's not just me that feels like this!?

I’m struggling. So many triggers. I’ve broken down in tears several times. Sobbing. I could have been Gabby. Perhaps she covered for Brian because that’s what she knew to do. Perhaps she didn’t tell anyone he was abusive because at first, it didn’t seem that bad. It seemed normal for her. It wasn’t that bad. I can talk him down. I’ll take the blame just so this fight will be over. I won’t tell. I won’t tell…

 

[Sassafrass]

I think we'll find that because Google takes satellite pics, this doesn't supercede local laws about drone use and photo privacy (if that's what your post was getting at - it may not be, so apologies if not. It may have just been informational ).

Google is always having to adjust its street view pics (for example) to allow for local laws in different places around the world.

Google Street View privacy concerns - Wikipedia

Oh, it was informational/comnent that at least to some degree it is not illegal to capture some type of overhead (or street-view) images of a private home and publish them.

Of course Google's (or anyone's) actions do not supercede locally applicable law! My point was that that the general notion of images of private property is evidently not contra US laws. As for the specifics - yes, it's a whole patchwork of what/when/how is legal.

 

[Hyway]

I have a personal opinion on the whereabouts of BL. But I know its not the only possibility so I keep an open mind when new information comes in and don't discard it simply because it doesn't meet my personal narrative. I appreciate posters who can do the same thing. Here is my personal opinion.

I believe BL killed GP.
I believe BL killed himself in the Reserve.
I believe his parents didn't know he killed her until they learned GP was missing.
I believe that once he confirmed it to them they began efforts to preserve the life of their son by getting a lawyer involved.
I believe he really did go into the preserve to hide out once he was named a POI and before the media circus went into high gear at the house.
I believe on Friday after he left they found out somehow he offed himself or was going to so they contacted LE.
I believe LE thought they were looking for a body and spent so much effort at it because they knew they only had a limited amount of time before the conditions in their might erase all signs of him and then they would have an open manhunt forever.
I believe that the reason we don't see much of a manhunt anymore even though there are supposed sightings, is that LE don't believe any of them and are only going through the motions to calm the local residents.

But I also know I might be completely wrong on all these points so I look at every new piece of information with my mind open for all possibilities. BL could be on his last mental and physical legs and will be caught soon, or he could be having the time of his life playing super-fugitive and laughing at all the crazy sightings. Or anything in between.

 

[tokyorose]

Peculiar is the word!

Not only is it a multi-jurisdictional manhunt and a big deal in the States, but it's worldwide news too - I'm thousands of miles away in a rural countryside village in northern England, and this case has completely consumed me.

PS - I guessed you were an attorney with your legal knowledge

BL's parents are in a pressure cooker of a situation. I am honestly shocked that they haven't cracked yet, but who knows what goes on in that house. I am guessing they are having a lot of practice with their penmanship. A rural countryside village in northern England sounds wonderful beyond words. The type of place I dream about actually. Life here in the states is too fast paced and chaotic, tell me is it really as serene as I imagine it to be?

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Something I just thought about: (storage locker post somebody made led me ponder this)

We have focused a LOT on communications between GP and her family.

and a LOT on communications with BL and his family after he got to Florida Sep 1st.

Let's imagine for a moment...

BL is in a hotel for the night (from the police stop), and police just told him he is victim. Now, if you were BL, would you call your parents and/or sister and tell them what happened? After all, it would make you look like the good guy. As unbelievable a story as that was, I'm wondering what communications went on between BL and his parents after that stop.

specifically: Did he call his parents and discuss the police stop?
Did the parents then say: You had better come home and clear that storage unit? for some reason?

Then he made plans to go home and clear the storage unit?

What would/could be the reason to clear the storage unit? (as said earlier, his airfare would have probably paid for the unit, so it probably wasn't about costs.)

Were the storage locker unit and the possessions in it something we overlooked as important?

Was emptying the storage unit a calculated move for something other than saving the rental costs?

What was in the unit that BL possibly needed to control, and why?

Why leave in the middle of a cross country trip to spend money (that you just told police officers you did not have) to empty a storage unit? (not to mention the money spent on GP being in a hotel during that time)

Could the Laundrie parents have been coaching BL since the police stop instead of since Sep 1st? BL got the money to fly home from somewhere.

Any way to roughly calculate when the things went in the storage unit?

Something smells...

thanks to the OP (@lonetraveler) for bringing up the storage unit!

Have LE bothered to look in the storage unit for Brian? Haha

 

[tokyorose]

I have a personal opinion on the whereabouts of BL. But I know its not the only possibility so I keep an open mind when new information comes in and don't discard it simply because it doesn't meet my personal narrative. I appreciate posters who can do the same thing. Here is my personal opinion.

I believe BL killed GP.
I believe BL killed himself in the Reserve.
I believe his parents didn't know he killed her until they learned GP was missing.
I believe that once he confirmed it to them they began efforts to preserve the life of their son by getting a lawyer involved.
I believe he really did go into the preserve to hide out once he was named a POI and before the media circus went into high gear at the house.
I believe on Friday after he left they found out somehow he offed himself or was going to so they contacted LE.
I believe LE thought they were looking for a body and spent so much effort at it because they knew they only had a limited amount of time before the conditions in their might erase all signs of him and then they would have an open manhunt forever.
I believe that the reason we don't see much of a manhunt anymore even though there are supposed sightings, is that LE don't believe any of them and are only going through the motions to calm the local residents.

But I also know I might be completely wrong on all these points so I look at every new piece of information with my mind open for all possibilities. BL could be on his last mental and physical legs and will be caught soon, or he could be having the time of his life playing super-fugitive and laughing at all the crazy sightings. Or anything in between.

This is one of the most likely scenarios in MOO

 

[mydailyopinions]

If The Laundries are completely innocent in this and Brian was on the run from even them, he might would say he was going hiking to the Reserve, the most likely of places for even his family yet wind up amongst us all in plain sight just blended in. Alone will get him more noticed than blending in, a black marker can add more tattoos, ..
I can't help but wonder..
Is he now a city boy?

 

[indycindy]

Pinellas County is out again at FDS.

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

Seems like a a regular evening patrol flight to me?..

 

[Jurisprudence]

I would love to know if any of her belongings were still in the van when Brian drove it back.

If yes, then he was still clinging to the notion that he had a girlfriend, that Gabby was vaguely present, and he could tolerate looking at her things. I would like to know if her decor was still there.

If no, then it seems to me that if he wanted to erase her and never contact her family, he would get rid of all her things.

Interesting you say this because I would love to know if any of her belongings were in the HOUSE when the FBI executed the second warrant. Where is her stuff???

Edit: If it was completely gone, wiped clean, no trace of Gabby, this, in and of itself is speaking volumes to LE. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I’m so glad you brought that up. I’ve been thinking the same thing. I mean trained police officers went after him armed wearing body armor. Even when an alert is for a missing person with mental health problems, an advisory how to approach individual is issued on the alert.

I'm concerned that with all the excitement around "Dog", we may have Dog-wannabes attempt a capture. This could result in a very bad outcome.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Jurisprudence]

Has anyone seen any safety warnings go out to those along the Appalachian Trail or the reserve? I am concerned about the safety of the citizens who may encounter this POI. We already know of one dead individual; we don't want more before he is captured. Anyone see any warning to the public instructing them what to do if they encounter him?

Amateur opinion and speculation only

I noticed there is no ... or maybe I should say I have not noticed any "armed and dangerous" or "potentially armed and dangerous" reports associated with his search at all. MOO

 

[Barbie619]

I am duck footed, so I had ignored the videos…..thinking it wasn’t a bid deal. I saw one today, and it’s EXTREME. It almost seems like something is wrong with his hips too. Like his upper thighs were stuck together. It was very odd.

I was just watching L&O SVU and they were investigating muddy footprints in Central Park. The investigator pointed out that the person was running because people who run tend to do so with feet straight.

On the other hand people that are walking tend to have both feet point outward. I know this show is fictional but it's often based on real crimes, and the show use's experts in LE to write the scripts, so I think this may be a fact for human's to display those types of footprints.

I mean we are here talking about it and suddenly it's explained on a show I'm watching, so it must be based on some truth, jmo....

 

[ericasf]

Seems like a a regular evening patrol flight to me?..

I don't know. At first I thought maybe but they spent about 10 minutes circling the botanical gardens which is weird. Campground there too.

ETA: Looked up on police reports and it looks like it was circling where an outside fire was going on at the top right corner of the park.

 

[ringbearer]

Have LE bothered to look in the storage unit for Brian? Haha

I thought of that a while back and said to myself, surely they're not that dumb. Never say never, I guess.

 

[Angels Advocate]

Hiker has ‘no doubt’ he bumped into Brian Laundrie - follow updates live

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

In all of these supposed sighting and accounts, there has not been, to my knowledge, anyone who emphatically and categorically stated he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was BL. Nobody has provided that detail - that he has a unique profile, that isn't seen in most of the wanted photos, and that this witness got a long look at that profile from his vantage point. Add to that the strangeness of the encounter, the unique confused behaviors by the guy in the pickup truck; and the fact that this guy did not expect and was not at all certain it was BL at first - it was so unexpected for him - Add to that the fact that BL's Grandpa lives in TN near WNC. Add to that people predicted BL would go the AT weeks before this sighting. Add to that it's the first legitimate sighting of him near the AT now picked up by international news sources.

I think I just don't know why more people don't take this one seriously.

 

[Jurisprudence]

The website for Carlton Reserve says that it is currently closed. Are they still actively searching there? Or is the website wrong?

That's interesting.

 

[Angels Advocate]

Hiker has ‘no doubt’ he bumped into Brian Laundrie - follow updates live

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

Hiker 'certain' he bumped into the fugitive boyfriend of 'murdered' Gabby Petito

Un hombre de Florida dice que no hay duda de que vio a Brian Laundrie cerca de Appalachian Trail en Carolina del Norte


In all of these supposed sighting and accounts, there has not been, to my knowledge, anyone who emphatically and categorically stated he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was BL. Nobody has provided that detail - that he has a unique profile, that isn't seen in most of the wanted photos, and that this witness got a long look at that profile from his vantage point. Add to that the strangeness of the encounter, the unique confused behaviors by the guy in the pickup truck; and the fact that this guy did not expect and was not at all certain it was BL at first - it was so unexpected for him - Add to that the fact that BL's Grandpa lives in TN near WNC. Add to that people predicted BL would go the AT weeks before this sighting. Add to that it's the first legitimate sighting of him near the AT now picked up by international news sources.

I think I just don't know why more people don't take this one seriously.