Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #83

[Mom24]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

"Sober and conscious victims of strangulation will first feel terror and severe pain. If strangulation persists, unconsciousness will follow. Before lapsing into unconsciousness, a strangulation victim will usually resist violently, often producing injuries of their own neck in an effort to claw off the assailant, and frequently also producing injury on the face or hands of their assailant. These defensive injuries may not be present if the victim is physically or chemically restrained before the assault. Victims may lose consciousness by any one or all of the following methods: blocking of the carotid arteries in the neck (depriving the brain of oxygen), blocking of the jugular veins (preventing deoxygenated blood from exiting the brain), and closing off the airway, making breathing impossible."

https://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211/Strangulation-Information-for-Victims

"It’s important to remember that often in strangulation cases there are no visible external injuries."
"Even in fatal strangulation cases, there is often no external evident injury (confirming the findings regarding the seriousness of non-fatal, no-visible-injury strangulation assaults).1"
"Strangulation is more serious than professionals have realized. Loss of consciousness can occur within 5–10 seconds, and death within 4–5 minutes."
"Jurors expect to see visible injuries. But the fact that strangulation often leaves no marks, combined with its terror value, makes it a favorite tactic of experienced batterers."
"Studies are confirming that an offender can strangle someone nearly to death with no visible injury, resulting in professionals viewing such an offense as a minor misdemeanor or no provable crime at all."
https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/California-Strangulation-Manual_web3.pdf

"Domestic violence strangulation can be fatal without any external evidence of injury on the skin of the neck. Police homicide investigators are frequently posed a difficult problem, wherein the victim of a domestic violence situation is found dead, often reported by the assailant, with a vague history of substance abuse or depression, and no injuries evident on the body. If no suspicion of domestic violence is developed during the scene investigation, there may be little or no suspicion of criminal harm when the victim presents for autopsy examination. Without external evidence of skin injury, an autopsy will be conducted to rule out drug overdose, and the injury of strangulation will not be found until the neck dissection is carried out, ordinarily at the end of the case."
https://bloomington.in.gov/sites/default/files/2017-09/Review of 300 attempted Strangulation Cases_Part III.pdf

The long and short is that there can be fingernail marks, but not always. The loss of consciousness can be within seconds, or it may be longer. I do believe Dr. Baden may have been trying to alleviate some of the pain the Petito's were going through, or he may have also read something or seen something that would make him believe that in this case it was over very quickly.

 

[Skigirl]

"It’s important to remember that often in strangulation cases there are no visible external injuries."
"Even in fatal strangulation cases, there is often no external evident injury (confirming the findings regarding the seriousness of non-fatal, no-visible-injury strangulation assaults).1"
"Strangulation is more serious than professionals have realized. Loss of consciousness can occur within 5–10 seconds, and death within 4–5 minutes."
"Jurors expect to see visible injuries. But the fact that strangulation often leaves no marks, combined with its terror value, makes it a favorite tactic of experienced batterers."
"Studies are confirming that an offender can strangle someone nearly to death with no visible injury, resulting in professionals viewing such an offense as a minor misdemeanor or no provable crime at all."
https://evawintl.org/wp-content/uploads/California-Strangulation-Manual_web3.pdf

"Domestic violence strangulation can be fatal without any external evidence of injury on the skin of the neck. Police homicide investigators are frequently posed a difficult problem, wherein the victim of a domestic violence situation is found dead, often reported by the assailant, with a vague history of substance abuse or depression, and no injuries evident on the body. If no suspicion of domestic violence is developed during the scene investigation, there may be little or no suspicion of criminal harm when the victim presents for autopsy examination. Without external evidence of skin injury, an autopsy will be conducted to rule out drug overdose, and the injury of strangulation will not be found until the neck dissection is carried out, ordinarily at the end of the case."
https://bloomington.in.gov/sites/default/files/2017-09/Review of 300 attempted Strangulation Cases_Part III.pdf

The long and short is that there can be fingernail marks, but not always. The loss of consciousness can be within seconds, or it may be longer. I do believe Dr. Baden may have been trying to alleviate some of the pain the Petito's were going through, or he may have also read something or seen something that would make him believe that in this case it was over very quickly.

In my opinion, it's even worse if a killer's victim has lost consciousness after 10 seconds. Imagine continuing to strangle someone for three to five more minutes after they have lost consciousness and are no longer fighting. That does not happen by accident. That does not happen in a brief moment.

What a horrible, horrible crime. BL did a very, very evil thing, in my opinion.

 

[Mom24]

In my opinion, it's even worse if a killer's victim has lost consciousness after 10 seconds. Imagine continuing to strangle someone for three to five more minutes after they have lost consciousness and are no longer fighting. That does not happen by accident. That does not happen in a brief moment.

What a horrible, horrible crime. BL did a very, very evil thing, in my opinion.

It is horrible. It also speaks to the intent of strangulation. The person is already unconscious and the strangulation continues. It's horrific.
In AZ it's against the law to even put your hand over someone's mouth or nose because even that action leads to manual strangulation. And because brain damage can happen, even aside from being fatal, in mere seconds AZ passed laws to address this issue.
There's also a push to educate healthcare workers to look for the warning signs -difficulty swallowing, a pt that complains of sore throats, sounding hoarse- so that we can somehow cut the number of fatalities and intervene before it's too late.
Which is why, imo, seeing that Moab stop is so infuriating. There was a definitive lack, imo, of training that had happened. The minute she said he put his hand over her mouth, that should have initiated a serious response from LE, imo.

Aggravated Assault by Strangulation 13-1204.B became law in Arizona as a class 4 felony and added to the Domestic Violence Statute July 29, 2010. The statute defines strangulation as either intentionally or knowingly impeding the normal breathing or circulation of blood of another person by applying pressure to the throat or neck or by obstructing the nose and mouth either manually or through use of an instrument.
https://azmag.gov/Portals/0/Documen...ffocation-Cases.pdf?ver=2017-04-06-110958-437

ETA correct state of law regarding hand over mouth and link.

 

[Skigirl]

This is not an alternative. The death is still caused by strangulation. The only difference is how long it takes.

Throttling IS strangulation.
What does ‘throttling’ mean, Gabby Petito’s cause of death?

 

[jjonez]

If BL killed GP…

• For the sake of argument, can we assume that GP was killed no later than 8/30? That was 67 days ago, more than 2 months. In that time no witness to her homicide has publicly come forward. In that time LE has not revealed a witness to her homicide. Are we still waiting for a witness?

• BL returned to his parent’s home 9/1. That was 66 days ago, more than 2 months. In that time the L’s have shared no public testimony of any knowledge of anything relating to the death of GP. In that time the L’s have shared no information with LE regarding the death of GP (based on my interpretation of the words of SB). Are we still waiting for the L’s to talk? Do they even have anything to tell us?

• GP’s remains were located 9/19. That was 47 days ago, more than a month and a half. In that time LE have examined the crime scene, performed an autopsy, and given samples to forensic specialists. In that time I suspect LE has discovered whether or not there was enough evidence at the crime scene or among her remains to charge BL with her homicide. I suspect there is nothing more to wait for on that front.

• BL’s notebook was discovered 10/20. That was 16 days ago, more than 2 weeks. In that time I think the notebook has dried out. Are we still waiting for a confession to be found therein?

• BL’s remains were found 10/20. By that time they had decomposed to the point of being skeletal remains. We are not waiting for a confession from BL.

What are we waiting for? Is there any amount of circumstantial evidence that would clear/close this case?

Unless there is another suspect that we don’t know about, I think this case may be over.

all moo.
​

 

[esayer]

<modsnip - no link to source>

This is a very painful and violent way to be killed. It's not quick, accidental, or painless. IMO.

Source is this: Strangling - Wikipedia.

Manual strangulation (also known as "throttling") is strangling with the hands, fingers, or other extremities and sometimes also with blunt objects, such as batons. Depending on how the strangling is performed, it may compress the airway, interfere with the flow of blood in the neck, or work as a combination of the two. Consequently, manual strangulation may damage the larynx and fracture the hyoid or other bones in the neck. In cases of airway compression, manual strangling leads to the frightening sensation of air hunger and may induce violent struggling.

Manual strangulation is common in situations of domestic violence, and is regarded by experts as an especially severe form of domestic violence, due to its extremely frightening and potentially lethal nature, and an observed correlation between non-fatal strangulation in domestic violence and future homicide.

 

[customCF]

I was responding to your last sentence in your post. I always wondered the same about his lingering near the crime scene. My thoughts are not how most see it, but I will write it anyway. I don't think BL is what he is portrayed as in social media. Yes, I do believe he killed GP, but I do think it shocked him and sent him into a mental fog due to his anxiety issues. I think that GP and BL fought ALL the time, even before they took off on their road trip. The van life trip just exacerbated their fighting where it became more violent between the two of them,and it does take two people to fight. I do not think BL meant to kill her. Since we don't have the complete autopsy report, I wonder if it was more of a freak accident. Perhaps he grabbed her throat as he had grabbed her face in Moab. He could have been so mad that his anger and strength crushed her windpipe in the process, and she died relatively quickly. It makes me think BL loitered around not believing she was actually dead. I wonder if he left her in the van and ran off in disbelief hoping she would actually still be alive when he returned. When he came back, she would be working on her vlog as he had told the people that he hitchhiked rides with. When he returned, everything was at he left. Perhaps he set her shoes next to her with her backpack and a blanket at the site they had camped at and ran home pretending it didn't happen. I believe that is his MO.....to run away . That way it never really took place. He could pretend it never happened. He couldn't face the consequences, and those consequences were coming in the form of a Long Arm of the Law. I choose to believe BL didn't mean to murder Gabby. It's just that their fights went too far. Should be a lesson to everyone that we should never strike another. In short, he was hoping she wasn't actually deceased. He hoped when he returned, she would be working in the van.

BBM

Completely disagree with the bolded. There is no way manual strangulation can be called a "freak accident" as you put it. Strangulation like that takes MINUTES. BL could have stopped at any point but CHOSE (IMO) not to stop at all.
The fact that manual strangulation takes so long is why I believe that BL actually meant to end Gabby's life.

a scenario where he felt "if I can't have her nobody will"

MOO

 

[customCF]

It appears the NPPD made some errors, but I'm not sure opening an investigation is in anyone's best interest.

i disagree.

Investigating how LE operates at any point is always good IMO. Never know what could be uncovered.

Mistakes can and do happen but if the same exact mistakes happen over and over and are not learned from; an investigation into why that mistake happens is very needed.

MOO

 

[txsleuth70]

Are we no longer allowed to mention the MP event? Or what else are you referring to that alleging may have happened somewhere? Sorry, I missed a few early 80's threads...

 

[Shellinaya]

If BL killed GP…

• For the sake of argument, can we assume that GP was killed no later than 8/30? That was 67 days ago, more than 2 months. In that time no witness to her homicide has publicly come forward. In that time LE has not revealed a witness to her homicide. Are we still waiting for a witness?

• BL returned to his parent’s home 9/1. That was 66 days ago, more than 2 months. In that time the L’s have shared no public testimony of any knowledge of anything relating to the death of GP. In that time the L’s have shared no information with LE regarding the death of GP (based on my interpretation of the words of SB). Are we still waiting for the L’s to talk? Do they even have anything to tell us?

• GP’s remains were located 9/19. That was 47 days ago, more than a month and a half. In that time LE have examined the crime scene, performed an autopsy, and given samples to forensic specialists. In that time I suspect LE has discovered whether or not there was enough evidence at the crime scene or among her remains to charge BL with her homicide. I suspect there is nothing more to wait for on that front.

• BL’s notebook was discovered 10/20. That was 16 days ago, more than 2 weeks. In that time I think the notebook has dried out. Are we still waiting for a confession to be found therein?

• BL’s remains were found 10/20. By that time they had decomposed to the point of being skeletal remains. We are not waiting for a confession from BL.

What are we waiting for? Is there any amount of circumstantial evidence that would clear/close this case?

Unless there is another suspect that we don’t know about, I think this case may be over.

all moo.
​

Very well put. I visit this case to see if anything new has been found, mostly if anything was in the notebook. I don't think LE or the FBI will ever tell the public what they found, nor do they have to. I think this case is really over and probably nothing more will be forthcoming. The only suspect is dead. They don't have to let us know about other suspects or theories because there are none.

<modsnip>

 

[squareandrabbet]

Very well put. I visit this case to see if anything new has been found, mostly if anything was in the notebook. I don't think LE or the FBI will ever tell the public what they found, nor do they have to. I think this case is really over and probably nothing more will be forthcoming. The only suspect is dead. They don't have to let us know about other suspects or theories because there are none.

<modsnip - removed opinion stated as fact without a disclaimer>

I agree with you.

I also think if there was any remote apparent chance that Gabby was killed by someone/anyone other than Brian, it would be hugely irresponsible of LE/FBI to be sitting on this fact, lest that person go on to kill someone else.

 

[Cool Cats]

Brian Laundrie - update: FBI probe slain fugitive’s texts and emails as they try to close Petito case

Crucial to their investigation will be Laundrie’s digital communications, including his texts and emails, use of social media, and internet browsing history prior to his death.

NewsNation Correspondent Brian Entin believes law enforcement will already have pieced together much of the puzzle.

“I think the FBI knows a lot of those questions and they will be resolved,” Mr Entin says. “If they close the case those documents will be available through public record searches.”

Ms Petito’s family strongly suspect that Laundrie was impersonating her in text messages after her death to try to confuse them and the police.

Cellphone records should also be able to track Laundrie’s movements between Wyoming and Florida, where he returned to on 1 September.

Mr Entin believes the FBI could release their findings linking Laundrie to Ms Petito’s death before closing the case.

“If they don’t do that, there’s technically a chance that there’s still a murderer out there,” he says.

“I think that would calm the public down and give the Petito’s some kind of closure.”

The dark themes that permeate Brian Laundrie’s digital footprint

Brian Laundrie’s final social media post, around the time of his girlfriend Gabby Petito’s death, shows the cover of a book titled Burnt Out, how to cope with autistic burnout.

While it’s unknown whether Laundrie was on the autism spectrum, he and Ms Petito told officers attending a domestic disturbance in Utah on 12 August they were suffering from a mental health breakdown.

Laundrie’s social media posts often feature macabre drawings and references to violent video games.

In a separate Pinterest post, text at the bottom of an image reads: “Don’t try to find me,” and “I have finally escaped my ‘master’s’ wicked clutches. To the others I say: JOIN ME. Bite the hand that feeds you. Vive La Liberte.”

The little-known reporter who broke the biggest story in America

Police hold gun found near Dog the Bounty Hunter Brian Laundrie search area

 

[Cinna]

Throttling IS strangulation.
What does ‘throttling’ mean, Gabby Petito’s cause of death?

The post I replied to was edited by mods so maybe my reply no longer made sense. But yes, throttling and strangulation are the same. That was not the issue being discussed. I pointed out the dangers of delayed death due to strangulation. A link to INH/PubMed was provided if you would like to scroll back.

 

[LeeJay55]

Throttling IS strangulation.
What does ‘throttling’ mean, Gabby Petito’s cause of death?

Exactly
Throttling is with bare hands
She was strangled by throttling
Not strangled by ligature!

means the same just explains manner!

 

[Cinna]

And then there's the possibility of delayed death from strangulation. So many possibilities.

This is actually very important for anyone to know who's been a victim of strangulation. You may think you're ok, but you really should be checked out by a doctor.

Unexpected delayed death after manual strangulation: need for careful examination in the emergency room - PubMed

Reposting this as there seems to be confusion due to an edited post. I never said strangulation and throttling are different. This was the issue being discussed. Timing - NOT method.

 

[Cinna]

In my opinion, it's even worse if a killer's victim has lost consciousness after 10 seconds. Imagine continuing to strangle someone for three to five more minutes after they have lost consciousness and are no longer fighting. That does not happen by accident. That does not happen in a brief moment.

What a horrible, horrible crime. BL did a very, very evil thing, in my opinion.

If I were the victim I would rather die quickly rather than prolonged. So IMO, it's better, not worse.

I would agree the crime itself is worse.

 

[Skigirl]

I think my information about strangulation was snipped for not having a source. Below are some sources:

https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fnl-2018-0031

"Strangulation generally occurs during chaotic and violent interactions...strangulation is an extremely painful way to die and creates terror in the victim."

Even if GP's killer wasn't trying to kill her:

The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications
"Nonfatal strangulation might well be the domestic violence equivalent of water boarding. Water boarding, which involves water being poured into the mouth and nasal passages of an immobilized captive to simulate drowning, is widely considered to constitute torture. (One US-based study of IPV, perhaps acknowledging the psychological similarity, asked about “choked or tried to drown.”12) Both leave few marks immediately afterward, both can result in the loss of consciousness, both are used to assert the actor’s dominance and authority over the life of the other, both create intense fear and potentially result in death, and both can be used repeatedly, often with impunity"

IMHO, her gesture to her throat during the Moab stop suggests that if he hadn't already full-on tried to strangle her, he was coming closer and closer. MOO, there was no accident or fast, one-time, freak violent incident.

 

[Dexter12]

this is what i thought as soon as i watched the whole Bethune video.... there WERE lots of people, and vans on that whole trek of his.

I do feel that Brian did this, but I just feel the physical attack was so quick.. that there were probably no sounds at all...

I don't think that either G or B were ever concerned about who could hear and see, anyway.
I think their fighting and bickering had a life of its own.

 

[Dexter12]

this is what i thought as soon as i watched the whole Bethune video.... there WERE lots of people, and vans on that whole trek of his.

I do feel that Brian did this, but I just feel the physical attack was so quick.. that there were probably no sounds at all...

I don't think that either G or B were ever concerned about who could hear and see, anyway.
I think their fighting and bickering had a life of its own.

 

[Dexter12]

In my opinion, there were no screams because she could not scream while being strangled