Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #83

[Balthazar]

When did Mr. Bertolino notify NPPD that he was representing Brian?

In interviews SB said he was talking to the FBI on the 12th and 13th of September. He became a part of the case at 11:30pm on September 11. For all we know he may have called the NPPD or FBI on Saturday night. There are just a lot of unknowns. But I have always been under the impression that the person LE is trying to talk to has to actually be the one to tell LE that they either want an attorney or have an attorney and will not talk to LE without the attorney. I've never been under the impression that the parents of the adult could do that in place of the adult unless they had the adult's POA. But I could be wrong. On the 13th SB mentioned to the FBI that BL had not come back from his hike. What we don't know is if SB told NPPD and the FBI that he was representing BL, although he may well have.

 

[EvieIvyOver]

I agree with you.

I also think if there was any remote apparent chance that Gabby was killed by someone/anyone other than Brian, it would be hugely irresponsible of LE/FBI to be sitting on this fact, lest that person go on to kill someone else.

Unless that person has already been apprehended for other reasons.

 

[NCWatcher]

In interviews SB said he was talking to the FBI on the 12th and 13th of September. He became a part of the case at 11:30pm on September 11. For all we know he may have called the NPPD or FBI on Saturday night. There are just a lot of unknowns. But I have always been under the impression that the person LE is trying to talk to has to actually be the one to tell LE that they either want an attorney or have an attorney and will not talk to LE without the attorney. I've never been under the impression that the parents of the adult could do that in place of the adult unless they had the adult's POA. But I could be wrong. On the 13th SB mentioned to the FBI that BL had not come back from his hike. What we don't know is if SB told NPPD and the FBI that he was representing BL, although he may well have.

I'm not sure if the person has to be the one to say he's represented as long as it's conveyed in a credible manner. And I can't imagine that SB wouldn't have mentioned his professional involvement in conversations with LE. Why else would he be calling? Regardless, various posts over the past 2 months have said LE should have forced the L's to produce B at the house so he could tell them himself that SB was his counsel. Even if there is a requirement that the an adult himself state that he's represented, I'm not sure how LE could have forced the parents to produce B. And LE obviously had no right to enter the house without a warrant.

If LE had been legally informed B was represented, they still could have followed him when he left the house. They chose not to. If they had followed him to try to question him it seems that would have been risky given the L's known statement and SB's probable statement. If they had approached him it seems their first question would have had to be "Are you BL and are you represented by counsel/SB?"
JMO

 

[jjonez]

Are we no longer allowed to mention the MP event? Or what else are you referring to that alleging may have happened somewhere? Sorry, I missed a few early 80's threads...

ROFL! I get it now, but at first I read your quoted message as threads from the early 1980’s!

 

[TL4S]

ROFL! I get it now, but at first I read your quoted message as threads for the early 1980’s!

I did, too! Maybe we're aging ourselves...

 

[Mistyjks]

In my opinion, there were no screams because she could not scream while being strangled

TRIGGER WARNING



I’ve seen this comment before in these threads. I agree. I’m not gonna get into details by any means, and I am completely fine and well away from this situation now (it was years back)… however.. I say I agree because I know firsthand.

A boyfriend wrapped his hand around my neck and upward. I am not a tiny person, average I’d say. However it was just enough that I was close to just tiptoes and the second he had that force in that exact grip, I couldn’t breathe a breath - let alone scream. You’d also be surprised at how difficult it was to “fight” this off. My hands instantly went to my throat trying to pry his hand off. From start to when he stopped was maybe close to 15 seconds, but just as he let go was when I felt I was passing out. It was starting to go black, and a huge weight (figuratively) was removed (I think it was my body/muscles going from freak out to relax).

I’ve seen many comments also about if she was strangled, there would be commotion, defensive woods, woods on her killer, etc. As hard as I tried, I effectively did nothing whatsoever in this sense.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Unless that person has already been apprehended for other reasons.

Yeah, I super don’t believe in any type of SODDI conspiracy on this one, but YMMV.

 

[MollyDDD]

ROFL! I get it now, but at first I read your quoted message as threads from the early 1980’s!

 

[10ofRods]

TRIGGER WARNING



I’ve seen this comment before in these threads. I agree. I’m not gonna get into details by any means, and I am completely fine and well away from this situation now (it was years back)… however.. I say I agree because I know firsthand.

A boyfriend wrapped his hand around my neck and upward. I am not a tiny person, average I’d say. However it was just enough that I was close to just tiptoes and the second he had that force in that exact grip, I couldn’t breathe a breath - let alone scream. You’d also be surprised at how difficult it was to “fight” this off. My hands instantly went to my throat trying to pry his hand off. From start to when he stopped was maybe close to 15 seconds, but just as he let go was when I felt I was passing out. It was starting to go black, and a huge weight (figuratively) was removed (I think it was my body/muscles going from freak out to relax).

I’ve seen many comments also about if she was strangled, there would be commotion, defensive woods, woods on her killer, etc. As hard as I tried, I effectively did nothing whatsoever in this sense.

I'm so sorry this happened to you and that you got through it. I probably already posted about the academic literature on this impulse to face-push, upper neck grab, strangle...most men who have done this to an intimate partner will say they remember just wanting the person to "shut up." I started thinking more about this and my impression of BL is that he was way more taciturn than Gabby.

Your situation (of not being able to inflict defensive wounds) is very common. In some families, kids brawl around and the bigger kids are allowed to neck grab and fling their siblings - so some people actually learn the mechanics of this early on...

 

[10ofRods]

In interviews SB said he was talking to the FBI on the 12th and 13th of September. He became a part of the case at 11:30pm on September 11. For all we know he may have called the NPPD or FBI on Saturday night. There are just a lot of unknowns. But I have always been under the impression that the person LE is trying to talk to has to actually be the one to tell LE that they either want an attorney or have an attorney and will not talk to LE without the attorney. I've never been under the impression that the parents of the adult could do that in place of the adult unless they had the adult's POA. But I could be wrong. On the 13th SB mentioned to the FBI that BL had not come back from his hike. What we don't know is if SB told NPPD and the FBI that he was representing BL, although he may well have.

The thing is, LE would have needed a search warrant at that point, because Gabby hadn't been found yet and a missing person case doesn't give police probable cause to charge inside any house where they think the missing person may be - much less into a house where they are only trying to get information about said MP.

The result would have been the same (BL wouldn't have spoken to them, he had a right not to) and they would have had to wait until the FBI gathered the evidence that resulted in the financial fraud charges (on Sept 22, I believe). BL was long gone by then, IMO.

 

[MollyDDD]

TRIGGER WARNING



I’ve seen this comment before in these threads. I agree. I’m not gonna get into details by any means, and I am completely fine and well away from this situation now (it was years back)… however.. I say I agree because I know firsthand.

A boyfriend wrapped his hand around my neck and upward. I am not a tiny person, average I’d say. However it was just enough that I was close to just tiptoes and the second he had that force in that exact grip, I couldn’t breathe a breath - let alone scream. You’d also be surprised at how difficult it was to “fight” this off. My hands instantly went to my throat trying to pry his hand off. From start to when he stopped was maybe close to 15 seconds, but just as he let go was when I felt I was passing out. It was starting to go black, and a huge weight (figuratively) was removed (I think it was my body/muscles going from freak out to relax).

I’ve seen many comments also about if she was strangled, there would be commotion, defensive woods, woods on her killer, etc. As hard as I tried, I effectively did nothing whatsoever in this sense.

Wow. I’m sorry you had to experience that, but thanks for sharing. I remember hearing long ago that although your first reaction is to grab at the hands, instead gouge the eyes. Disclaimer: I am in no way implying that you should have done this. I’ve personally never been in that situation before and certainly cannot attest to how I or anyone else should react. IMO

 

[Mistyjks]

Wow. I’m sorry you had to experience that, but thanks for sharing. I remember hearing long ago that although your first reaction is to grab at the hands, instead gouge the eyes. Disclaimer: I am in no way implying that you should have done this. I’ve personally never been in that situation before and certainly cannot attest to how I or anyone else should react. IMO

I’ve actually thought many times if I’d have had a different experience if he wasn’t my boyfriend at the time. Meaning if it had been a stranger to me I may have instinctively went for injuring them (such as you state; gouging eyes). I truly have felt this is what happened all along, even before it was ruled strangulation.

How GP described BL with his reaching up to her mouth, (I believe this was in the body cam footage), I think this time he was so enraged he used more force than before and didn’t stop. I think GP was immediately unable to breath or speak, and since they “loved” each other - she didn’t react having no clue that this time it would result in her death. Yes she may have tried scuffling with him, but not the same as if a stranger came up and did that.

In my story, even as things were going black - I was just barely coming to any part of a realization he may be killing me - by then it was too late to react more aggressively.

moo

 

[cady]

I did, too! Maybe we're aging ourselves...

LOL some of which I'm glad I missed... jmo

 

[Balthazar]

I'm not sure if the person has to be the one to say he's represented as long as it's conveyed in a credible manner. And I can't imagine that SB wouldn't have mentioned his professional involvement in conversations with LE. Why else would he be calling? Regardless, various posts over the past 2 months have said LE should have forced the L's to produce B at the house so he could tell them himself that SB was his counsel. Even if there is a requirement that the an adult himself state that he's represented, I'm not sure how LE could have forced the parents to produce B. And LE obviously had no right to enter the house without a warrant.

If LE had been legally informed B was represented, they still could have followed him when he left the house. They chose not to. If they had followed him to try to question him it seems that would have been risky given the L's known statement and SB's probable statement. If they had approached him it seems their first question would have had to be "Are you BL and are you represented by counsel/SB?"
JMO

I've wondered if SB told LE that he was representing the parents, initially. With what SB said, I do think they were headed for a bushy-haired stranger defense and going to claim someone else killed Gabby. Maybe the unknown person involved in the Moab murders...hard to know without hearing the defense theory.

I've theorized that the Laundries wouldn't let LE see BL because he may have had some injuries that were healing on his face or arms or hands, etc. like in Moab.

When LE knew the van belonged to Gabby and she was not at the Laundrie's house and the Laundries claimed they didn't know where she was and BL drove the van to Florida, I don't understand why the authorities didn't immediately go get a warrant and arrest BL for car theft. He should have been arrested before the vehicle was towed as soon as they knew Gabby was really missing. If that had been done, unless he managed to kill himself in jail, he would have been in custody right now as they piled on charges for credit card/debit card theft and then murder. Then the whole debacle that was keeping BL (not) under surveillance would not and could not have happened.

I believe that unless you directly tell LE yourself that you are represented by an attorney you are not considered represented. LE is not required to ask you if you want an attorney if they are only questioning you. However, if you are being questioned and state you have an attorney and will be glad to answer questions as allowed by your attorney, then they have to stop questioning you and cannot hold you unless they arrest you. The laws regarding this may vary from state to state. Not sure.

JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

The thing is, LE would have needed a search warrant at that point, because Gabby hadn't been found yet and a missing person case doesn't give police probable cause to charge inside any house where they think the missing person may be - much less into a house where they are only trying to get information about said MP.

The result would have been the same (BL wouldn't have spoken to them, he had a right not to) and they would have had to wait until the FBI gathered the evidence that resulted in the financial fraud charges (on Sept 22, I believe). BL was long gone by then, IMO.

I could be wrong, but I believe the van belonged to Gabby and not BL and therefore, since she was not present, it should have been regarded as stolen property and BL should have been arrested for car theft prior to the van being towed by LE.

JMO.

 

[Ruminations]

This has always stuck in my mind:

“I really wish he had come to me first that day with the van because I don’t think we’d be here,” Cassie tells ABC News.

CASSIE LAUNDRIE: 'Just come forward': Brian Laundrie's sister asks him to 'get us out of this horrible mess'

I don't think we'll ever find out much more from any of the family members, but I would be interested to hear what Cassie meant by the statement above.

ITA- I have always believed she was hinting she would have handled something differently than her parents. Something about Brian and the van. I’ve been puzzling over this. [Without any particular evidence] I’m inclined to trust that Cassie did not take any actions or fail to take any actions that delayed locating Brian. Yet I feel she thinks her parents made some error in dealing with with Brian’s initial arrival with the van.

MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

I've wondered if SB told LE that he was representing the parents, initially. With what SB said, I do think they were headed for a bushy-haired stranger defense and going to claim someone else killed Gabby. Maybe the unknown person involved in the Moab murders...hard to know without hearing the defense theory.

I've theorized that the Laundries wouldn't let LE see BL because he may have had some injuries that were healing on his face or arms or hands, etc. like in Moab.

When LE knew the van belonged to Gabby and she was not at the Laundrie's house and the Laundries claimed they didn't know where she was and BL drove the van to Florida, I don't understand why the authorities didn't immediately go get a warrant and arrest BL for car theft. He should have been arrested before the vehicle was towed as soon as they knew Gabby was really missing. If that had been done, unless he managed to kill himself in jail, he would have been in custody right now as they piled on charges for credit card/debit card theft and then murder. Then the whole debacle that was keeping BL (not) under surveillance would not and could not have happened.

I believe that unless you directly tell LE yourself that you are represented by an attorney you are not considered represented. LE is not required to ask you if you want an attorney if they are only questioning you. However, if you are being questioned and state you have an attorney and will be glad to answer questions as allowed by your attorney, then they have to stop questioning you and cannot hold you unless they arrest you. The laws regarding this may vary from state to state. Not sure.

JMO.

I agree state laws differ in exactly how Constitutional rights are protected. In my state, LE is usually not required to ask a person if he wants an attorney. The person has to state that. But if LE has been told the person is represented by an attorney, even if the person himself didn't say that, it seems LE would be taking a risk if they went ahead without asking especially if they are following a person and encountering him on the street, in a parking lot, or in BL's case, in a swamp. I don't know what is required but I'm fairly sure the situation of a family member saying "X is his lawyer" has come up. So I'm sure there's an answer out there.

I'm not sure arresting BL for car theft based on his possession of the van could have been done or would have made sense given what was known at the time. Yes, the van was GP's but without knowing where she was, there was no evidence he stole the van. They were traveling together. He drove the van all the time. If he (or anyone in his position) could be arrested for theft because of simple possession, it sounds like it also would be a matter of BL having to prove his innocence (vs the state having to have evidence he was guilty.) People do voluntarily disappear. Its not unheard of for young people to "ghost" their parents or their boyfriends/girlfriends. A mom saying "but my daughter would call me" may be telling the truth but it's also possible "her truth" may not be her daughter's truth. LE has no way to know for sure. And those kinds of mismatches in expectations between family members underlie reports of missing persons more often than murder. So I'm not sure it would have been possible to nab BL immediately for car theft.

JMO

 

[Cinna]

I could be wrong, but I believe the van belonged to Gabby and not BL and therefore, since she was not present, it should have been regarded as stolen property and BL should have been arrested for car theft prior to the van being towed by LE.

JMO.

I'm not sure a vehicle parked at the owner's place of residence could be considered stolen. Just because a person isn't home, doesn't mean thier roommate stole their car. MOO

 

[MollyDDD]

I’ve actually thought many times if I’d have had a different experience if he wasn’t my boyfriend at the time. Meaning if it had been a stranger to me I may have instinctively went for injuring them (such as you state; gouging eyes). I truly have felt this is what happened all along, even before it was ruled strangulation.

How GP described BL with his reaching up to her mouth, (I believe this was in the body cam footage), I think this time he was so enraged he used more force than before and didn’t stop. I think GP was immediately unable to breath or speak, and since they “loved” each other - she didn’t react having no clue that this time it would result in her death. Yes she may have tried scuffling with him, but not the same as if a stranger came up and did that.

In my story, even as things were going black - I was just barely coming to any part of a realization he may be killing me - by then it was too late to react more aggressively.

moo

I’m just glad you lived to tell.

 

[MollyDDD]

I've wondered if SB told LE that he was representing the parents, initially. With what SB said, I do think they were headed for a bushy-haired stranger defense and going to claim someone else killed Gabby. Maybe the unknown person involved in the Moab murders...hard to know without hearing the defense theory.

I've theorized that the Laundries wouldn't let LE see BL because he may have had some injuries that were healing on his face or arms or hands, etc. like in Moab.

When LE knew the van belonged to Gabby and she was not at the Laundrie's house and the Laundries claimed they didn't know where she was and BL drove the van to Florida, I don't understand why the authorities didn't immediately go get a warrant and arrest BL for car theft. He should have been arrested before the vehicle was towed as soon as they knew Gabby was really missing. If that had been done, unless he managed to kill himself in jail, he would have been in custody right now as they piled on charges for credit card/debit card theft and then murder. Then the whole debacle that was keeping BL (not) under surveillance would not and could not have happened.

I believe that unless you directly tell LE yourself that you are represented by an attorney you are not considered represented. LE is not required to ask you if you want an attorney if they are only questioning you. However, if you are being questioned and state you have an attorney and will be glad to answer questions as allowed by your attorney, then they have to stop questioning you and cannot hold you unless they arrest you. The laws regarding this may vary from state to state. Not sure.

JMO.

Hopefully Gabby will not have died in vain, and there will be new training requirements in DV for LE. IMO