GUILTY Yoselyn Ortega charged with 2 counts ea-1st and 2nd Degree Murder of Krim Children

[Straitfan]

Strictly JMO, but I feel Sociopaths and the like's are "learned behavior" and people with a MI are born with it. I personally dont believe the 2 sides have any traits in common..IMO, the sociopaths, etc are the one's who choose these horrific acts, not due to MI but due to the fact they believe "it's their right",etc.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I think possibly her strong Catholic religion could have come into play and that is why she committed suicide.

Catholics are very against suicide and consider it a sin.

 

[Madeleine74]

Murder isn't logical and murdering children is definitely not logical. I guess there was some "logic" to what Andrea Yates did, considering she was hearing voices and was trying to protect the souls of her kids (she did it out of "love" not because she wanted them gone). That's truly mentally ill--not knowing her actions were wrong.

A psychiatrist or 2 will no doubt evaluate the nanny and that will be interesting to see what they say. I personally don't think an insanity defense will fly in this case. This is nothing like an Andrea Yates situation.

 

[Straitfan]

I don't believe she intended to kill herself, maybe she "had it in her mind" to test the mom's concern for her while self inflicting wounds...She is just pure evil IMO...like the other murderers we read about daily.

 

[Straitfan]

Murder isn't logical and murdering children is definitely not logical. I guess there was some "logic" to what Andrea Yates did, considering she was hearing voices and was trying to protect the souls of her kids (she did it out of "love" not because she wanted them gone). That's truly mentally ill--not knowing her actions were wrong.

A psychiatrist or 2 will no doubt evaluate the nanny and that will be interesting to see what they say. I personally don't think an insanity defense will fly in this case. This is nothing like an Andrea Yates situation.

Totally agree..

 

[gitana1]

If that was true, and she was not guilty, then why would she tell the cops her 'complaints' about the extra 5 hrs of housework? Wouldn"t she instead say
" Help me, the crazy man in the apt. across the hall did this, not me'?

Have you ever watched how LE questions a suspect? It is highly doubtful that she just started blurting out complaints about the Krims. They tend to use leading questions. I am also sure they are terrified of an insanity defense (which I have also said a few times, will not work, IMO) and so they allow certain things to be released, whether out of context or not, to make sure this woman will not succeed like the monster who killed Lauren Belius did.

Murder isn't logical and murdering children is definitely not logical. I guess there was some "logic" to what Andrea Yates did, considering she was hearing voices and was trying to protect the souls of her kids (she did it out of "love" not because she wanted them gone). That's truly mentally ill--not knowing her actions were wrong.

A psychiatrist or 2 will no doubt evaluate the nanny and that will be interesting to see what they say. I personally don't think an insanity defense will fly in this case. This is nothing like an Andrea Yates situation.

Listen. If murder wasn't logical then there would be no point whatsoever to criminal profiling, to forensic psychology or to much of the other investigative work done by detectives who solve violent crime. Of course it is logical. It always has logic to it. Every problem does.

Is it rational to murder someone? No. Is it "normal". No. Is it logical to actually carry out the murder of another? Generally, no. But those are vastly different things. Logic can certainly be applied to a murder in order to determine why and how and who.

Nevertheless, I definitely agree that this is nothing like an Andrea Yates situation. That woman had been in an out of mental institutions and was repeatedly impregnated despite being diagnosed with post partum psychosis. She also tried to drown her kids before, filling up the tub, right in front of her husband and MIL.

In this case? I do not believe that this woman is legally insane. I will repeat: I do not believe this woman is legally insane. Once again? Not legally insane!

I also am very certain she will not get off by reason of an insanity defense.

None of that precludes my belief at this point, however, that she was motivated by insanity. I am very sorry if that is hard to understand. It's not for me.

 

[Angelo]

Did the Krims bury their sweet babies today? Thought I saw a post but now can't find it or any MSM link? TIA

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-tots-allegedly-slain-nanny-article-1.1196834

 

[Straitfan]

So sad,think instead of arguing about the nanny, maybe we should all do something tomorrow as an act of kindness...Send balloons to Lulu and Leo, pay for the person in line behind us at a drive thru window or donate to Lulu & Leo's fund..something positive for these two sweet little souls and their loved ones....RIP Lulu & Leo Krim..

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

I think I *get* what you are saying Gitana. In fact, I'll go out on that limb with you.

I think what is throwing a lot of people is that YO's motivation was purely selfish, self-serving, and not one we would associate with the classic definition of insanity (i.e. no voices in her head told her to do it, the family dog wasn't channeling messages into her tinfoil hat, etc.) Her motive was shockingly normal in a way...I'm pretty sure most of us can relate to feeling jealous, or over-worked, under-appreciated, etc.

So it's not the motive but the crime itself that is irrational. It was a pre-meditated crime, but not a calculated one. It is not the crime of a sociopath.

Someone who was evil but of sound mind would not have committed such an irrational crime. They would have no problem committing such an EVIL crime, but they would have planned it out better, and at least tried to get away with it. The fact that YO didn't even attempt to cover up what she had done shows that she was acting in a manner that was so reckless and impulsive that the only logical conclusion you can draw is she was mentally ill.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN SHE SHOULD BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY! She knew the difference between right and wrong, and that makes her sane by the legal definition. I don't think she should be granted ANY leniency. But it does help, in some way, explain WHY she did what she did-and that is important to understand if we want to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future.

 

[imnotfussy]

I wonder if the nanny anticipated that mum would come home so soon. She may have thought that mum would have stayed at the dance class and come home afterwards. People who are used to arguing in an aggressive volatile manner, often expect everyone to be fine towards them the next day. The fact that she killed them in the bathroom, it's almost like she was trying to minimize the mess. Did she do this as she was going to clean everything up and pretend the kids just disappeared? Or did she expect that she'd remain in the Krim's employ and be told to clean up the mess, so wanted to make as little work for herself as possible. Of course the latter option is a totally insane thought, but ...

I can't help but wonder whether the fact that Marina's scream brought the super running, that saved the life of Marina and her daughter. I can't help but wondering whether she wanted to kill them too. I mean if the mum was the object of her anger ... I wonder what stopped her?

 

[Straitfan]

I totally feel it was an evil, caculated act by the nanny, not spawned from "voices nor any mentall illness...nothing....just pure evil, anger, jealousy, hatred..She should have never been with those children....When I look at the picutue of her holding Lulu & Nessie in her lap, the body language of the girls is not one of "love & comfort", they look alittle uncomfortable to me, nothing like they appear in other pic's jmo... so sad...My thoughts and prayers to all the Krims...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Not one of those women tried to kill themselves in such a gruesome manner, or at all, during the commission of their crimes.

My hunch is that YO is going to say that MK stabbed her upon discovering her children hacked up in the tub. If this is true, I don't blame MK if she had that reaction. That IS the definition of temporary insanity. Anyone who came upon the scene of their children like that might lash back at their killer in the moment too.

If the report is correct that YO admitted to killing the children but not to stabbing herself, this may have actually happened. Why wouldn't YO admit to stabbing herself after she admitted to stabbing the children? Not only is she a lunatic but she's stupid too. What, she thinks she's going to get MK in trouble and take the heat off of herself?

As others have pointed out, YO must have waited for MK to see what she had done to the children. Her motive was to hurt MK and see the look on her face when she saw her children bleeding and dying. To me this is so beyond normal it doesn't even seem real. Yet we know it's real. Her crime was against MK but ultimately it was against two innocent children. What a stupid woman. No wonder she couldn't keep a job or figure out how to bring happiness into her own life. She's nothing but a terrorist.

 

[Straitfan]

Have you ever watched how LE questions a suspect? It is highly doubtful that she just started blurting out complaints about the Krims. They tend to use leading questions. I am also sure they are terrified of an insanity defense (which I have also said a few times, will not work, IMO) and so they allow certain things to be released, whether out of context or not, to make sure this woman will not succeed like the monster who killed Lauren Belius did.



Listen. If murder wasn't logical then there would be no point whatsoever to criminal profiling, to forensic psychology or to much of the other investigative work done by detectives who solve violent crime. Of course it is logical. It always has logic to it. Every problem does.

Is it rational to murder someone? No. Is it "normal". No. Is it logical to actually carry out the murder of another? Generally, no. But those are vastly different things. Logic can certainly be applied to a murder in order to determine why and how and who.

Nevertheless, I definitely agree that this is nothing like an Andrea Yates situation. That woman had been in an out of mental institutions and was repeatedly impregnated despite being diagnosed with post partum psychosis. She also tried to drown her kids before, filling up the tub, right in front of her husband and MIL.

In this case? I do not believe that this woman is legally insane. I will repeat: I do not believe this woman is legally insane. Once again? Not legally insane!

I also am very certain she will not get off by reason of an insanity defense.

None of that precludes my belief at this point, however, that she was motivated by insanity. I am very sorry if that is hard to understand. It's not for me.

That is not necessarily true, some crimminals are idiots and do just blurt out things...based on info regarding YO, I can see her doing so, since IMO, she felt justified in her actions. Not to mention, given YO is in the hospital, I would doubt the LE were to aggressive with her, plus not all LE are aggressive, guess for people who committ crimes it may seem so, not saying it doesnt ever happen tho think less than portraited.

 

[notchucktesta]

I know it's been determined that the media has reported a lot of bologna, but I do recall reading somewhere that Mrs. Krim received a phone call from the nanny that she was going straight home? That the swim instructor even stated that Mrs. Krim told her bye and didn't seem nervous or like anything was wrong. I only read that once. Not sure where. Anyone else recall that? IF that was the case, then yes, I do believe she planned this and planned on MK coming in and finding them before knifing herself.

 

[Straitfan]

The pictures on Lulu & Leo fundraiser site of their memorial are soooo sad...One of the "stage" appears to have their children's art work in the background, more available on the site, dad speaking, etc...God Bless Krims.. (No audio that i could find but beautiful pictures and a beautiful "stage" so to speak with what appears to be their childrens artwork in the background....RIP lil sweeties...

 

[redheadedgal]

i wonder if warren and jackie hance (who lost all three of their daughters due to the actions of their aunt diane schuler -- thread in up to the minute forum: "taconic parkway") have reached out to the krim's... both families having experienced such great loss by the hands of someone they trusted with their beloved children...

beautiful memorial!! RIP little krim's <3

 

[stmarysmead]

Marina writes about the two girls going to school..which allows her three wonderful hours to play with Leo. So what was YO doing at this point in the day? Did she expect to just lay on the sofa, relaxing?

If she was being paid by the week for so many hours, did YO think she should take a bubble bath and paint her nails....and become incensed that she might be asked to tidy up as SHE WAS PAID for those hours?

The apartment looks like it was designed to be child friendly. Nothing pretentious. The kids have big cardboard boxes in one room...having a joyous time. Marina was obviously hands on. The girls went to school for part of the day. Mom took them to lessons in various places. I wonder howoften YO even had all three kids?

As Nanny jobs go, this one sounds more than fair. Unless you hire an entitled narcissist who thinks SHE should get something for nothing. She EXPECTED a handout...not a hand up.

And she STILL thinks she has a legitimate case to make!!!! Maybe she expected the police to say.."OH! you slit the babies' throats because the Mother made you tidy up and then didn't say goodbye? Oh, alrighty then. YOU ARE THE REAL VICTIM. Take this Lovely lady home in a cab...and lets take up a collection to pay off her debts."

 

[Angelo]

The pictures on Lulu & Leo fundraiser site of their memorial are soooo sad...One of the "stage" appears to have their children's art work in the background, more available on the site, dad speaking, etc...God Bless Krims.. (No audio that i could find but beautiful pictures and a beautiful "stage" so to speak with what appears to be their childrens artwork in the background....RIP lil sweeties...

http://lululeomemorial.tumblr.com/

link

 

[stmarysmead]

Lucia (left) and Leo Krim were allegedly killed by their nanny on Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 57 W. 75th St. in New York. *
Bravely, the grieving dad recounted the magical Manhattan childhood of*his two lost children, the happy memories they accumulated before,*police said, their trusted nanny murdered them.

But when Kevin Krim got to the part where his 6-year-old daughter,*Lucia, and 2-year-old son, Leo, were taken forever by a &#8220;meaningless,*violent crime,&#8221; he could no longer contain his tears.

It was the most wrenching moment of the memorial service Monday for*the two little angels who, police said, were murdered by nanny Yoselyn
Ortega.

&#8220;Mr. Krim spoke about his children. He told stories and it was so*uplifting,&#8221; said one of the hundreds of mourners who attended the*private service at Avery Fisher Hall.

&#8220;He made you feel joy and celebration for these children before you*felt the sorrow, and I think that was an amazing thing.&#8221;



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...y-slain-nanny-article-1.1196834#ixzz2BRdRTJ16

 

[JodyMT]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-tots-allegedly-slain-nanny-article-1.1196834

I'm sorry, maybe this is just an Eastern thing. Why isn't a burial mentioned? When I think of memorial, I think of a wake, which is a gathering of the family to view the body or just visit together before the actual burial, which usually takes place the next day after a separate, more formal service.