Zahau Family Sues County for Additional Evidence

[*Lash*]

snipped for context-

The A-HA voice mail touted in the media by Mrs. Mary Suii Hoecker/Loehner and Anne Bremner is as cherry picking as it gets.

It's the type of tactic that Sheriff Gore warned them about:

Respectfully, it was SDSO, including their own spokeswoman Jan Caldwell, who "touted" about the voicemail to the media. Obviously since Sheriff Gore has not released the files, the Zahau's repeating what authorities already told the media was not considered a "tactic". The A-HA here is the fact SDSO did not feel it was necessary to retrieve the alleged suicide "trigger". An important piece of evidence gone.

By Jan Caldwell | Nov. 17, 2011

--Caldwell, a retired FBI special agent, is the public affairs director for the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department.

--After young Max’s fall at his father’s Coronado home in early July, Rebecca attempted to render aid. Max was transported to the hospital, his parents rushed to his bedside and rarely left. The family held onto hope Max would survive, however, at 12:48 a.m. on July 13, Max’s father, Jonah Shacknai, left a message on Rebecca’s phone that Max was not expected to live.

--After Rebecca checked her phone messages, it is believed she went to the garage and found a ski rope. She took that rope into the house and picked up two kitchen knives. In the bedroom, she cut sections of rope and tied them around the foot of the bed. She placed the end of the rope around her neck, and cut two sections to bind her feet and her hands. Only her DNA was found on the rope. Only her fingerprints were on the foot of the bed and the knives.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...nado-the-sheriffs-case-for-suicide/2/#article

By William M. Welch and Donna Leinwand Leger, USA TODAY

LOS ANGELES – A woman found dead, hanging naked with her hands bound behind her back at a historic Coronado, Calif., mansion in July, killed herself hours after learning that her boyfriend's 6-year-old son was near death from injuries sustained in a fall two days earlier, authorities said Friday.

--Police believe Zahau checked her voicemail for the last time at 12:50 a.m., when she listened to a message indicating Shacknai's son Max's condition was increasingly grave and his death was imminent. Zahau was at the mansion in the bathroom when the boy apparently ran down a third-floor hallway, tripped and soared over the balcony onto the carpet three floors below.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...death-ruled-suicide-family-objects/50233234/1

 

[*Lash*]

Rebecca's phone records do not show an incoming call from Jonah. There was a possible explanation given for this by a cellphone provider.

An outgoing call to Rebecca may show on Jonah's phone records but it will never show why he was calling. The reason given by Jonah is just his word. Not scientific proof. Another assumption by LE, that Jonah is telling the truth. SDSO had the opportunity to retrieve the deleted voicemail from Rebecca's cellphone provider. SDSO waited too long and it was deleted from the cellphone providers server. SDSO even stated they knew it could be retrieved if they got to it early but they didn't feel it was necessary because they had Jonah's statement. Remember SDSO told the public this voicemail was allegedly the reason Rebecca became so distressed and took her life. Pretty important piece of evidence, imo.

Interestingly, eventually several weeks later, search warrants for cellphone records were requested. Though it was too late to retrieve the voicemail.

Link to support SDSO never attempted to recover the deleted voicemail even knowing it would be deleted from the cellphone providers server. LT. Nesbit states it would have been helpful but not critical. Not critical? It was the alleged suicide "trigger". Instead of using technology to support their evidence, Jonah Shacknai's word was used as evidence.

News 8 has learned Sheriff's detectives never attempted to recover a deleted voicemail message, which Nesbit confirmed was left for Zahau by her boyfriend Jonah Shacknai, 54, hours before she died.

Investigators have said the voicemail may have caused Zahau to commit suicide, because the message allegedly informed her that Shacknai's 6-year-old son, Max, would not survive injuries he suffered during a fall at the mansion while under Zahau's care.

In the early days of the investigation, Jonah Shacknai told detectives he had left the voicemail message, Lt. Nesbit recalled.

"If we could have gotten it (the voicemail), yes, it would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case," said Lt. Nesbit.



--Nesbit explained further that the voicemail "is not stored on the phone itself but once it's deleted from the phone, after a certain number of days it's also deleted from the AT&T server; and at that point it had been at least a week and she (the detective) knew that it was no longer on the server."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

 

[burke_dennings]

Why didn't Becky call back after listening to the voicemail?

Her boyfriend's son, who she claimed to have loved like he was her own, lay in the hospital gravely injured.

Surely she would have wanted to be kept up to the minute on Max's condition.


Also, SDCSO conducted a second review of Becky's cellphone after the Zahaus complained not enough was done to retrieve the voicemail:

"Investigators initially conducted a manual search of Zahau's phone, a Samsung Focus, but new technology was used in the latest review to closely examine anything the phone's contents might reveal.

According to San Diego Sheriff's Department Homicide Lt. Larry Nesbitt, investigators did not learn anything new in their second analysis of Zahau's phone. Newsbitt said the probe didn't produce any new information "we didn't already have."

http://www.10news.com/news/investigators-finish-2nd-review-of-zahau-cellphone

 

[*Lash*]

Why didn't Becky call back after listening to the voicemail?

Her boyfriend's son, who she claimed she have loved like he was her own, lay in the hospital gravely injured.

Surely she would have wanted to be kept up to the minute on Max's condition.


Also, SDCSO conducted a second review of Becky's cellphone after the Zahaus complained not enough was done to retrieve the voicemail:

"Investigators initially conducted a manual search of Zahau's phone, a Samsung Focus, but new technology was used in the latest review to closely examine anything the phone's contents might reveal.

According to San Diego Sheriff's Department Homicide Lt. Larry Nesbitt, investigators did not learn anything new in their second analysis of Zahau's phone. Newsbitt said the probe didn't produce any new information "we didn't already have."

http://www.10news.com/news/investigators-finish-2nd-review-of-zahau-cellphone

BBM - There is no proof it was Rebecca Zahau who listened to the voicemail. Only that "someone" listened to her voicemails.

2nd BBM - Sadly, investigators waited over 60 days to even open Rebecca's phone. Even Lt. Nesbit stated above in my post ^ they knew the voicemail needed to be retrieved in the first week.

Posted 9-22-2011

"Once we found out that the technology did not exist to forensically examine the phone, the detective manually opened the phone and learned that the message had been deleted; and she knew from prior case experience that if the message had been deleted from the phone, it would not have been stored on an AT&T server," Nesbit said.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

 

[burke_dennings]

It comes to down to whether one believes what Jonah and the SDCSO said about the voicemail.

I believe them.

Also, if Jonah was lying or hiding something, why would he have asked to the AG to review the case?

A Southern California man has asked the state attorney general to investigate his son's fatal fall and his girlfriend's suicide hanging, both of which occurred inside his mansion in July.

In a letter to the attorney general that was released Tuesday, Jonah Shacknai said he had "no reason to doubt the San Diego and Coronado authorities' findings" that there was no foul play in either death and that evidence shows girlfriend Rebecca Zahau committed suicide.

"At the same time I believe the only way to achieve some dignified resolution for everyone who has been touched by the horrible events of this summer will be through the efforts of your office," Shacknai said in the letter, dated September 19.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/justice/california-mansion-deaths/

 

[justice be served]

It comes to down to whether one believes what Jonah and the SDCSO said about the voicemail.

I believe them.

Also, if Jonah was lying or hiding something, why would he have asked to the AG to review the case?

A Southern California man has asked the state attorney general to investigate his son's fatal fall and his girlfriend's suicide hanging, both of which occurred inside his mansion in July.

In a letter to the attorney general that was released Tuesday, Jonah Shacknai said he had "no reason to doubt the San Diego and Coronado authorities' findings" that there was no foul play in either death and that evidence shows girlfriend Rebecca Zahau committed suicide.

"At the same time I believe the only way to achieve some dignified resolution for everyone who has been touched by the horrible events of this summer will be through the efforts of your office," Shacknai said in the letter, dated September 19.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/justice/california-mansion-deaths/

Jonah's CAREFULLY crafted letter to the AG clearly did not question LE findings - it is right there in your quote. On the basis of that fact put forward by Jonah, the AG legally had to turn down the request. Just one more thinly veiled sham technique used by a bevy of lawyers influencing the outcome of this case. Power players versus the little guys. It just makes me sick at what I believe went down.

BTW, Burke, you come with an amazing amount of resources to the forum. Welcome to you as a new follower. Your study of the case to get caught up must have taken months of study.

 

[Betty P]

And the fact that the Zahaus never released those files pretty much proves there was too much evidence that proved it was suicide.

If the files had bolstered their fraudulent case against Dina, Nina, and Adam, MZL would have released them in a hot minute.

Actually, it was a very wise decision by the Zahau family to pursue additional information and ultimately, justice, through the courts. They were facing threats from SDSO, already known to have cherry picked evidence and using the services of a PR agency. In addition, they were up against another powerful, wealthy, well connected group of opponents, namely the Shacknai/Romano clans. The latter had also spent a considerable sum on PR, media manipulation and private investigators.

Both opponents had already collude to prohibit access to the scene of the crime. The Shacknai family had also performed extensive renovations of the crime scene, removing any evidence that may have remained.

The Zahaus best option was to pursue the investigation in court, with a judge presiding over any remaining evidence and the discovery process. A level playing field, so to speak. Having witnesses testify under oath is their best hope for a full review of evidence before the public. JMO, but their decision to remain silent about evidence until the trial is the best approach.

 

[Frigga]

Rebecca's cellphone records confirm "someone" listened to Rebecca's voicemail. The records do not confirm "who" did the listening.

Rebecca's cellphone records do not confirm "who" the voicemail was from. It didn't even have to be a new voicemail.

Again, even if Jonah's records show he made a call, SDSO chose not to retrieve the deleted voicemail. We will never know what was said. The alleged "trigger" to Rebecca's suicide. SDSO made the decision it was not an important piece of evidence. Imo, a prime example of cherry picking what they considered evidence.

Or they were afraid of what they would find and it wouldn't match up with their "theory".
Shoddy investigative work- any way you look at it. I don't care what camp you're in.

 

[*Lash*]

Or they were afraid of what they would find and it wouldn't match up with their "theory".
Shoddy investigative work- any way you look at it. I don't care what camp you're in.

I agree, shoddy work either way you look at it. It is nonsensical to me that one side cannot admit pertinent evidence was not tested. No matter how much it is debated.

 

[burke_dennings]

On Dr Phil SE10 EP45-46 Zahau Family Attorney Anne Bremner raised the issue of the panties in the trash that were not tested.

RESPONSE:

Why didn’t we collect and process the panties in the trash?

As with many items seized during the service of a search warrant, the panties in the trash at the guest house were seized because we did not know what the significance of that item was at the time.

Investigators have one chance to seize items at a search warrant service, so items must be seized even if there is only a possibility it may be related.

The investigation revealed this item was likely related to a girl’s slumber party at the mansion in the days leading up to Rebecca’s death. They were not tested for evidence of sexual assault because that examination was conducted on Rebecca herself. No evidence of such a crime was found.

They were not tested further because taking into consideration the size of the mansion, and the fact it was open to family and friends, we had to focus our investigation on items directly related to the event in question; items we knew had to be handled or disturbed during the course of the event as it unfolded.

Fingerprints, DNA, and other items left behind in other areas of the mansion have limited value in proving or disproving a crime.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

 

[BBL]

It comes to down to whether one believes what Jonah and the SDCSO said about the voicemail.

[/URL]

Isn't that the whole point? It shouldn't come down to who you believe! It should have been fully investigated so that we have actual/hard facts. IMO, the authorities completely failed. We can debate if they chose to fail on purpose, or if they were just incompetent. But I don't think anyone can argue that this was thoroughly investigated. If it were, there wouldn't be so many ambiguous findings and unanswered questions. Particularly when there could have been hard evidence... if only it were actually examined.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The FIFTEEN detectives working on the case did not need to follow through with all of the nit-picky things being brought up here. They had PROOF beyond DOUBT that Rebecca KILLED HERSELF - DNA and Fingerprints that PROVE SHE WAS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE ROOM THAT NIGHT.

The attempt to drive the conversation away from the topic - which is the Zahaus HAVING NO EVIDENCE WHATOEVER for their pack of lies lawsuit - is clear and telling.

There IS NONE.

 

[Betty P]

Actually, it's helpful to still have a thread open that allows renewed analysis of SDSO's original investigation. It helps put things in perspective as the civil case moves forward and the discovery process brings new or different information to light.

 

[inthedark14]

The Zahaus' suit against SDSO was for evidence that was not turned over to them IIRC. It is entirely possible that SDSO finally turned over these items and so the case was dropped.

They were not suing them because SDSO ran a completely incompetent investigation AFAIK.

Now DS' wrongful death suit against JS was also dismissed with prejudice after DS was heavily sanctioned several times by the judge.

Of course we don't know the particulars of either case but it seems very misleading to crow that the suit against SDSO was dismissed with prejudice.

Does anyone know if the Z family was sanctioned at all in thier case? I don't recall reading that they were, but I could have missed it.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[bourne]

Jonah's CAREFULLY crafted letter to the AG clearly did not question LE findings - it is right there in your quote. On the basis of that fact put forward by Jonah, the AG legally had to turn down the request. Just one more thinly veiled sham technique used by a bevy of lawyers influencing the outcome of this case. Power players versus the little guys. It just makes me sick at what I believe went down.

BTW, Burke, you come with an amazing amount of resources to the forum. Welcome to you as a new follower. Your study of the case to get caught up must have taken months of study.

Agreed. For a so-called "newbie", Burke's posts and choice of words are startlingly, eerily similar to another pro-Dina poster here.

Also agree that Jonah's letter never LEGALLY questioned LE's closing of Zahau's case. In fact, it's written in a self-contradictory manner as if to purposefully put out a feigned disguise for seeking a reopening of Zahau case with the underlying ulterior motive to permanently shut down the case forever.

 

[bourne]

The Zahaus' suit against SDSO was for evidence that was not turned over to them IIRC. It is entirely possible that SDSO finally turned over these items and so the case was dropped.

They were not suing them because SDSO ran a completely incompetent investigation AFAIK.

Now DS' wrongful death suit against JS was also dismissed with prejudice after DS was heavily sanctioned several times by the judge.

Of course we don't know the particulars of either case but it seems very misleading to crow that the suit against SDSO was dismissed with prejudice.

Does anyone know if the Z family was sanctioned at all in thier case? I don't recall reading that they were, but I could have missed it.

ALWAYS MOO

IIRC, the Zahau case against LE was brought forth to obtain physical evidence withheld by LE to the Zahaus, including Ms. Rebecca Zahau's own cellphone and laptop.

It was NOT a wrongful death suit charging anyone of wrongdoing.

Whether it was dismissed with prejudice or not is of no relevance or significance because either way, Zahaus ended up receiving the information and materials they sought from LE.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The Attorney General's office looked at the case TWICE- once at the request of Jonah Shacknai, and once at the request of Anne Bremner - who also carefully crafted her request. The Attorney General's office could find NO REASON to reopen the case after either request.

"On January 6, 2012,the Zahau family's legal team-law partners David Fleck and Marty Rudoy in California, along with Anne Bremner in Seattle drafted an eighteen-page-letter to Judy Garland, the senior supervising deputy attorney general in the California of Justice.

The department's office had earlier declined to review the San Diego County Sheriff's Department and Coronado Police Department's handling of the Rebecca Zahau case.

There were very narrow criteria for such a review. The state of California had scarce financial resources and their policy was that they could only review cases where a clear conflict of interest existed, where local authorities' resources had been exhaoustedand they had asked for help from the state, or when there were allegations of gross malfeasance by a local law enforcement agency or agencies."

Excerpt from Ann Rule's Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors
Ann Rule's Crime Files Volume 18

Chapter 12, page 257, 258

 

[*Lash*]

Isn't that the whole point? It shouldn't come down to who you believe! It should have been fully investigated so that we have actual/hard facts. IMO, the authorities completely failed. We can debate if they chose to fail on purpose, or if they were just incompetent. But I don't think anyone can argue that this was thoroughly investigated. If it were, there wouldn't be so many ambiguous findings and unanswered questions. Particularly when there could have been hard evidence... if only it were actually examined.

BBL, thank you for this post! It is the whole point.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Rebecca's death was througly investigated. Fifteen detectives worked round the clock for seven long weeks. There was no "rush to judgement" (except in Max's case).

The physical evidence proved that it was only Rebecca in the balcony, only Rebecca painting on the door and her nipples, only Rebecca hopping out on the balcony nude and that a fall over. Only Rebecca.

http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/

What I find rather macabre is that the Zahau followers would rather Rebecca be murdered, than accept the TRUTH that she committed suicide. Rather sick, IMO.

 

[burke_dennings]

Mary Suii Zahau Hoecker/Loehner never gave the investigation a chance.

MZL started running her mouth in the media about how it wasn't suicide within days of Becky's death.

Talk about being BIASED.