04/22/2013 - waiting for rebuttal to continue

[Sleuth5]

Springtime! :rocker: Loving it! The west is the best... Jim Morrison. :rocker:

Gonna be 75 here tomorrow.

 

[MeeBee]

BBM

I'm thinking the judge lets in manslaughter.

Even though we know it's a complete fabrication, we have the defendant (testibaloney is evidence) saying that she had the gun, pointed it at TA in an effort to stop his advancing on her and in the struggle, the gun went off/she pulled the trigger. She said she didn't mean to shoot him.

I think she gets it in because she's admitting to holding a gun and pointing it at him, pre fog of course. Handling the gun indicates that she'd have knowledge of that kind of reckless behavior could endanger him, but she killed him unintentionally.

It'll definitely come in. This doesn't worry me though. It doesn't take murder one off the table and his rebuttal and closings will drive home premeditated murder.

The surrebuttal Otoh, I cannot see happening.

 

[gloomy]

JM is just brilliant. He can be abrasive, sometimes too often, but nobody can trip him up. He doesn't suffer fools or liars at all, has no patience for game playing, and thinks a million miles a minute. He must have a photographic memory as well, no notes when taking testimony from a witness? Gosh.

It's really a pleasure to watch a mind like his at work.

ITA!

I have learned so much from just watching him. He is the smartest being in that courtroom - imo...:heartbeat:

 

[EquallyDivided]

Ty for sharing that hunny. I am sorry you went through that, honestly.
((((HUGS)))) for you and your sons.

Thanks Mel, I don't share those experiences -ever, and it happened 20 years ago. But, emotions are a crazy thing. We form memories based on emotions, and mortal fear is the most emotional experience I've ever had. Although I'm far removed, and he's no longer a danger to me and has moved on - its been over for a long time and I CERTAINLY have not dwelled on it.

However, I want to explain this so you can make a distinction.

When she are shoved to the ground while holding your 13 month old son, and your husband punches your face so repeatedly that your brow bone is fractured and cuts your eye from the inside, out - THAT is domestic violence. When you see blood all over your baby and furiously start looking for injuries to him, only to realize 'its only your blood spatter' and you are relieved, THAT'S domestic violence. When your husband follows you to your parents house (where your siblings also live and the phone line has been cut) out in the deep country - and he then yells out that he's in the woods, and he's brought the rifle - then says come out, or I'll kill your family - THAT'S domestic violence. When you finally make it to a secret women's haven (shelter) and he finds you and you have to move 2 more times - THAT'S domestic violence.

And no, he didn't say PLEASE. But I argue that the fact that he didn't say please was NOT the definition of violence.

ALV did a disservice to both victims AND the perception of domestic violence. It's now about as worthless as the G in Lasagna - as so famously put.

 

[Angelina Frost]

and the manslaughter quarrel thingy says clearly that THERE HAS TO BE NO COOLING OFF PERIOD. She had plenty of time to cool off after she shot him in the head at the point she said she did!!!

She says that after the shot, he still continued to come after her and threatened her life. That would cancel the cooling off period, thereby justifying the inclusion of a manslaughter charge.

The murderer has studied the law quite well it seems. She covered her bases. *******. :furious:

 

[Nhic]

I don't like Yreka.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[kaRN]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but having DV in my own personal past, I can tell you 100% without a doubt that when he threatened physical harm and death. .......I had one sole response.

RUN

I'm glad you're safe now!! I think your instincts were the most natural by far. The only exception would be if she had children in the house that she couldn't run out on IMO.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

Agree, that little hole between her lips drives me crazy too. Maybe she got it from all her Starbucks drinks she had. Insert straw here!

I'll bet I know why there's a little hole between her lips-Remember one of the things she likes to do.

 

[ElleElle]

100% agreed.

Assuming she testified under oath, they can use this because it's assumed she is telling the truth of what happened. Pretty dumb.

BBM

I'm thinking the judge lets in manslaughter.

Even though we know it's a complete fabrication, we have the defendant (testibaloney is evidence) saying that she had the gun, pointed it at TA in an effort to stop his advancing on her and in the struggle, the gun went off/she pulled the trigger. She said she didn't mean to shoot him.

I think she gets it in because she's admitting to holding a gun and pointing it at him, pre fog of course. Handling the gun indicates that she'd have knowledge that kind of reckless behavior could endanger him, but she killed him unintentionally.

 

[Ladylub]

So I read the article. Flabbergasting. Sickening really. Sorry... I'm just one of those people who speak my mind.

There is a section on this forum that highlights bullying. Online bullying - in particular. We've all read the recent accounts. They're heartbreaking. Rational adults speak against it. No one considers the slander, horrific and even threatening comments by online bullies as "free speech". I'm lost as to why that could even be a question???

Regardless of what someone things of Jodi Arias - Alyce LaViollette is a hero. She's a woman who's dedicated her life to highlighting domestic abuse. Changing the way society thinks about it. Creating programs that address the problem.

I'm a woman who was never abused. Independent, headstrong (but funny) and very self-aware.

My sister is not.

Today I live with her after a terrible incident that ended 10 years of domestic violence and abuse. The kind that would make most people's hair stand on end. She was battered, raped, degraded and broken in every way you can break a human being. She escaped one night with her kids when her husband tried to kill them all. I came - the big sister. Moved in - helped and stayed and am still helping.

We went through the court process while her (now ex) was charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. The sentence never undid the harm. It never will.

The day Alyce LaViolette took the stand I listened. 5 minutes in - I ran to get my sister. She had to hear what this woman was saying. We stayed glued to the trial during her testimony. We have her book on order at our local book store (currently sold out).

What my sister learned from that testimony was more than she learned from 4 years of reading, therapy, talking, discussing, trying to work things out in her own head and heart.

The trial part - the Jodi Arias issues - they all faded into the background.

I know there are many others out there - abused and abuser alike who heard all that and maybe, just maybe are beginning to understand abuse a bit better.

I don't know Ms Arias. I wasn't present in that bathroom. I don't know what happened. The Prosecutor doesn't either. Nor does Ms Wilmot, nor Kurt Nurmie, nor the doctors who testified, nor the friends, family, police officers. They're all just doing their best to give their insight in the course of justice.

But I do know this. Alyce is an amazing woman. SHE'S not on trial. SHE didn't kill anyone. She gave her professional opinion, in a court of law - and she is certainly entitled to do so - without expecting harm to come to her. I hope she can put the bullies behind her and I wish her all the strength.

Every profession has a share of their bad seeds. I really believe Alyce is a bad seed. To set in her ways to see the truth at times. Have seen so many bad men that she can not even force herself to see any man as a victim. Sometimes people go past their prime and I think Alyce has hit that mark. Her opinions in court were all based on half stories. Stories by a known liar at that. She did not seek out the truth. She twisted Travis' words to help Jodi. She twisted Jodi's words only when she needed them to help Jodi. Sure people should not be making death threats that is gone way to far. At the same time I think that people should be able to speak out about her without them being labeled as bullies. I'm not saying that is what you are doing but I've seen it before other places. IMHO I think she hurt victims ( especially male victims) of domestic violence way more then help them with this testimony. I'll give her credit for helping to highlight domestic violence ( and helping your sister ) but for me she is no hero. In all honesty Alyce was a bully on stand herself the way she spoke to JM was as if he was below her. Her snippy comment about putting him in time out. I guarantee she would take issue ( classifying it as verbal abuse) if someone made that statement to her. I would hate to be a man anywhere near her IMHO I think she has the ability to be verbally abusive towards men.

 

[bsk]

She says that after the shot, he still continued to come after her and threatened her life. That would cancel the cooling off period, thereby justifying the inclusion of a manslaughter charge.

The murderer has studied the law quite well it seems. She covered her bases. *******. :furious:

Let it in and take out Murder-2. That would be okay with me.

 

[Midnight Meddler]

So I read the article. Flabbergasting. Sickening really. Sorry... I'm just one of those people who speak my mind.

There is a section on this forum that highlights bullying. Online bullying - in particular. We've all read the recent accounts. They're heartbreaking. Rational adults speak against it. No one considers the slander, horrific and even threatening comments by online bullies as "free speech". I'm lost as to why that could even be a question???

Regardless of what someone things of Jodi Arias - Alyce LaViollette is a hero. She's a woman who's dedicated her life to highlighting domestic abuse. Changing the way society thinks about it. Creating programs that address the problem.

I'm a woman who was never abused. Independent, headstrong (but funny) and very self-aware.

My sister is not.

Today I live with her after a terrible incident that ended 10 years of domestic violence and abuse. The kind that would make most people's hair stand on end. She was battered, raped, degraded and broken in every way you can break a human being. She escaped one night with her kids when her husband tried to kill them all. I came - the big sister. Moved in - helped and stayed and am still helping.

We went through the court process while her (now ex) was charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. The sentence never undid the harm. It never will.

The day Alyce LaViolette took the stand I listened. 5 minutes in - I ran to get my sister. She had to hear what this woman was saying. We stayed glued to the trial during her testimony. We have her book on order at our local book store (currently sold out).

What my sister learned from that testimony was more than she learned from 4 years of reading, therapy, talking, discussing, trying to work things out in her own head and heart.

The trial part - the Jodi Arias issues - they all faded into the background.

I know there are many others out there - abused and abuser alike who heard all that and maybe, just maybe are beginning to understand abuse a bit better.

I don't know Ms Arias. I wasn't present in that bathroom. I don't know what happened. The Prosecutor doesn't either. Nor does Ms Wilmot, nor Kurt Nurmie, nor the doctors who testified, nor the friends, family, police officers. They're all just doing their best to give their insight in the course of justice.

But I do know this. Alyce is an amazing woman. SHE'S not on trial. SHE didn't kill anyone. She gave her professional opinion, in a court of law - and she is certainly entitled to do so - without expecting harm to come to her. I hope she can put the bullies behind her and I wish her all the strength.

It's crazy how we all interpret things we see and hear so differently - I saw Alyce as the bully.

 

[Lorelilly]

Interesting that their motion states that the state failed to include in their CIC that Jodi had BPD. I don't believe it's the states job to present the defense to the jury is it? Maybe the judge won't rule to allow this motion at all if it's legally flawed. I'm no lawyer but that reads as legally flawed to me.

The State would have included Dr. D's name and report so the DT is just flailing around as usual. The State would not have spelled out every single thing it was or was not going to ask Dr. D, but they were well aware of what she "could" say. God, what a waste of paper and brain cells! And, ALV NEVER wrote a report nor I believe did Dick. (many defense attorney's do that so that the State doesn't know exactly what the hired gun is going to say.)

 

[kaRN]

Thanks Mel, I don't share those experiences -ever, and it happened 20 years ago. But, emotions are a crazy thing. We form memories based on emotions, and mortal fear is the most emotional experience I've ever had. Although I'm far removed, and he's no longer a danger to me and has moved on - its been over for a long time and I CERTAINLY have not dwelled on it.

However, I want to explain this so you can make a distinction.

When she are shoved to the ground while holding your 13 month old son, and your husband punches your face so repeatedly that your brow bone is fractured and cuts your eye from the inside, out - THAT is domestic violence. When you see blood all over your baby and furiously start looking for injuries to him, only to realize 'its only your blood spatter' and you are relieved, THAT'S domestic violence. When your husband follows you to your parents house (where your siblings also live and the phone line has been cut) out in the deep country - and he then yells out that he's in the woods, and he's brought the rifle - then says come out, or I'll kill your family - THAT'S domestic violence. When you finally make it to a secret women's haven (shelter) and he finds you and you have to move 2 more times - THAT'S domestic violence.

And no, he didn't say PLEASE. But I argue that the fact that he didn't say please was NOT the definition of violence.

ALV did a disservice to both victims AND the perception of domestic violence. It's now about as worthless as the G in Lasagna - as so famously put.

WOW!! :hug: What a survival story!! I'm so sorry you had to live it!

 

[kaydono]

I'm glad you're safe now!! I think your instincts were the most natural by far. The only exception would be if she had children in the house that she couldn't run out on IMO.

I agree with your statement, concerning the children 100%, I was referring to Jodi's BS story about retaliating in response to being beaten down and her life being threatened. My gut instinct was always to RUN. My abuse took place prior to having my children, thank Goodness.

 

[kaRN]

The State would have included Dr. D's name and report so the DT is just flailing around as usual. The State would not have spelled out every single thing it was or was not going to ask Dr. D, but they were well aware of what she "could" say. God, what a waste of paper and brain cells! And, ALV NEVER wrote a report nor I believe did Dick. (many defense attorney's do that so that the State doesn't know exactly what the hired gun is going to say.)

The DT would have deposed her too right?

 

[Lorelilly]

Arias' defense wants to present more evidence
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/04/22/jodi-arias-defense-wants-present-more-evidence

It looks like the Walmart employee will testify to JA's lie about going to Mesa with two gas cans. If that's the case, I don't see why the jury will believe anything she said on the stand under oath, including her alleged attack by TA after dropping a camera worth a few hundred dollars.[/QUOTE]

I'm stillwaiting for Juan to prove JA's crooked bony finger was like that WAY before 2008. Prove that's a lie and all the other DV is proven to be bull chit too! Mark my words.

 

[Nhic]

Totally O/T!

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to the mods today for letting us blow off some steam via O/T banter in here while waiting for the next day of trial. All of you do a terrific job monitoring this site, and IMO there are LOTS of terrific minds in here - just reading their posts always impresses me, and on a day when you let us banter O/T like today, you mods are even more impressive.

Anyway, thanks again. :seeya:

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I'm sure you're right, but it's entirely against my principles to be a bully in any form. The last thing I want to do is hurt someone's feelings.

You're a good person Sleuth. And I sure didn't want to say anything to make you feel bad. You're the farthest thing from a bully.

I gotta fftobed: dang it! Another work day tomorrow.

I'll be depending on all of you to keep me posted on what JM brings to his rebuttal tomorrow. I can't wait!

G'nite all. :seeya:

 

[SweetT]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but having DV in my own personal past, I can tell you 100% without a doubt that when he threatened physical harm and death. .......I had one sole response.

RUN

I was the opposite.. I stayed and fought. I think I was in shock and pissed...I'm lucky to be alive.