17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[LambChop]

There has to be proof they were stolen before they can be considered stolen goods. If no one claimed them or they couldn't identify where they came from, they couldn't be labeled as stolen. JMO

That is why I said, if they were stolen. Had no one come forward I would think the school would have called the parents. Just because TM said they did not belong to him or his parents is not a reason to not call them. It sounds as if it were handled within the school and someone came forward to admit it was theirs. IMO they released the information because Miami-Dade was involved and they would have had a record of it. jmo

 

[lisalei321]

Can you make sense of why TM punched the bus driver?A day or two before this happened.

Can you link this? I haven't seen anything MSM stating this.

Sent from LG Esteem using Tapatalk

 

[lonetraveler]

Zimmerman said Martin had his hand in his waistband. He reported that to the 911, why?

The only thing I can think of is because it indicated he might have had a gun in his waistband.

So Zimmerman thinking Martin might be armed runs after him chasing a teen he thinks might be armed.

I bet he was pumped up with adrenaline ready for Martin to pull that gun at any time.

I'm having a problem visualizing this. He was holding a cell phone, holding a bag of Skittles and an Arizona bottle of ice tea. How many hands does he have?

 

[LambChop]

That's just plain wrong!

I agree it is very wrong.

 

[rotterdam]

Which means what, exactly?

A person is no longer obligated to actively try to retreat when they fear for their lives. They can stand their ground. That has very little to do with this case. The part of the law that people are most up in arms about is the clause that prohibits arrest in a self-defense shooting unless probable cause exists to determine it was unlawful.

Respectfully, IMO it does. GZ walked up to Tray, he was not forced to, and he already called him a suspicious person. He should have remained in retreat since he was in a public place and waited until LE arrived. He was not in his castle. SYG expanded the castle grounds.

 

[oh_gal]

Poor woman...more innocent victims.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...ess-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/

And the reason for tweeting his address? Did he want a mob to go there, or for someone to take him out? Way to go, idiot.

 

[vlpate]

Poor woman...more innocent victims.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...ess-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/

Unbelievable. How is this different from the KKK? Seriously, if Trayvon had been white, and Zimmerman black, and Zimmerman's address was being tweeted so people could basically kidnap him..... This is crazy.

"Filmmaker Spike Lee tweeted the wrong home address for George Zimmerman, the Sanford, Fla., man who many are claiming should be arrested for shooting and killing Trayvon Martin. The tweet could have potentially put the woman who actually lives at that address in danger."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/p...utting-sanford-woman-in-danger/#ixzz1qMdCGR3k

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

 

[jjenny]

And it wasn't even Zimmerman's address but apparently a completely unrelated person who is probably afraid to be in her house right now!

 

[Sensei]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline...erge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

So that is evidence that any such thing actually happened? Maybe Trayvon did not tell him because IT NEVER HAPPENED...

If I write to you saying "Why didn't you tell me you killed the neighbors dog"

Does that then mean that the incident with the neighbors dog actually occurred or is it possible that someone is getting something wrong?

Don't you think that someone would have tracked down the bus driver by now, How many bus drivers can there be at the school he attended, or a kid who was on the bus at the time.....crickets chirping and silence, then I would venture to say that it is a big fat nothing of an accusation IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[rotterdam]

I don't know that I would trust a witness showing up a month later claiming to have seen the whole thing. Where was he or she before?

If it was a very traumatic experience, their recollection tends to be pretty good

 

[uvamerica]

I really think GZ has some kind of a mental disorder, I think every time he called 911 he got some kind of a sick thrill from it. Most of the 911 calls he made were ridiculous, he's tying up 911 because kids are playing or riding bikes on the street, (in a gated community), a neighbor leaves a window or a garage open, some neighbor ! Anyway I think his thrills needed to escalate to satisfy his need for attention, he needed to be a hero.

Why couldn't GZ hold TM off ? why didn't he just back off knowing full well that LE WAS ON THEIR WAY !! which was what 2 minutes ?

 

[oh_gal]

Even if there is a credible witness, I doubt that witness would be believed. This has, unfortunately, gone too far, I think.

 

[m00c0w]

Are you a lawyer? Because the above is not my layperson's understanding of the law.

Yes, two reasonable people might disagree as to whether probable cause exists, but that doesn't mean the standard is subjective. It is still based in "reasonable belief".



Probable cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Put simply, probable cause means it is more likely than not that the defendant committed the crime. It isn't just a hunch or whim.

I never claimed it was a hunch or a whim. I said that it's still up to the police and prosecution to decide whether it exists or not. Sometimes it's not as clear as others, and there can be a very hazy line (such as this case, from all accounts so far). There are standards as to what meets the probable cause requirement, but those are still subjective and up to the police and prosecution to determine. Does that clarify what I'm saying a little more?

***

I'm less clear about Florida's new SYG law, but it seems to shift the burden of proof. California has long cautioned jurors that a defendant claiming self-defense cannot be required to "retreat" from the threat of death or grave bodily injury. The jury instructions on the subject caution jurors that a person can be (and people have been) shot or stabbed in the back, so the law doesn't require him to retreat.

But the difference in Florida's law SEEMS TO ME (and again, IANAL) that the burden of proof shifts to the prosecution. In California, self-defense is an affirmative defense and the burden is on the defendant to prove his belief that he was in grave danger was reasonable.

In Florida, somehow, the police and DA appear to have the burden of proving the violent response was NOT justifiable self-defense. This greatly increases the level of probable cause necessary when self-defense is claimed.

It is absolutely possible I am confused about this. I'm relying on talking heads on TV and we all know how misleading that can be.

The burden of proof is always on the prosecution to show that the defendant committed a crime. Self-defense is usually an affirmative defense, which acknowledges that the crime did occur, but there is a reasonable excuse for why it occurred.

Florida, it seems, puts the burden on the police/prosecution to determine there is probable cause to believe the shooting was not self defense before an arrest can be made. Beyond that, it's an affirmative defense as far as I can tell, and the defense will have to justify their actions in court. I may be wrong; I've heard it both ways, but I'm not sure the legislation reflects the burden being put on the prosecution to disprove defense. I'll do some more looking into it.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I REC'D TODAY

THE ABC Chicago Reporter DID make a MISTAKE. As far as they know, Martin DID NOT CALL 911

I can forward the email to a MOD if needed for verification.

RE: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting
WLS - TV News ([email protected]

To: REDACTED

Reporter Paul Meincke misspoke at the end of his Friday live report. He was doing a story about marchers in Chicago. At the end of his story while explaining that the FBI hopes to enhance audio from 911 recordings he misspoke when he said Trayvon Martin made a 911 call. Zimmerman and a number of witnesses made calls to 911. There are reports that Martin was on the phone with a friend at the time, but we do not have any information that Martin made a 911 call. We regret the error.

Thank you for watching and for taking the time to email us.



----Original Message-----
From: REDACTED
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:38 PM
To: WLS-TV News
Subject: Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting

From: REDACTED
name: REDACTED
City: REDACTED
State: Florida
Zip: REDACTED
Phone: 321 REDACTED

Comments: Hello. In a report about the Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman shooting in Sanford Fl, your reporter said that Trayvon Martin had made a call to 911. This has not been reported anywhere else; did Paul Meincke mean to say George Zimmerman had made the call to 911? Thanks

TY, TY Rossva!!:rocker:

 

[jjenny]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

Well we actually have heard about this particular witness (although I guess it's correct we have not heard from this witness as they haven't given televised interviews to the press).

 

[Sensei]

I'm having a problem visualizing this. He was holding a cell phone, holding a bag of Skittles and an Arizona bottle of ice tea. How many hands does he have?

he was wearing a hoodie with pockets and either jeans with pockets or a pair of sweats with pockets....we know what was found on him, not specifically in his hands. The only person that claimed he had something in his hands was Zimmerman.

 

[jjenny]

he was wearing a hoodie with pockets and either jeans with pockets or a pair of sweats with pockets....we know what was found on him, not specifically in his hands. The only person that claimed he had something in his hands was Zimmerman.

I presume his cell phone was in his hand since he was on the phone.

 

[WillenFan21]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

One guy against how many other witnesses? There was a woman in the 911 call who said that Trayvon was yelling help.

 

[LambChop]

I'm having a problem visualizing this. He was holding a cell phone, holding a bag of Skittles and an Arizona bottle of ice tea. How many hands does he have?

His bottle/can of ice tea and the bag of Skittles was still in TM's front pocket when LE turned him over. This was after GZ said TM attacked him from behind, wrestled GZ to the ground, then jumped on top and banging GZ's head on the sidewalk without loosing the candy or the ice tea. We know they were fighting on the ground because there were witnesses who saw the wrestling part and that GZ was on the bottom. No one saw who jumped or grabbed who first. That is still a mystery. jmo