17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[LambChop]

They have many fears. One of my AA friends lives in a small town in Texas - Lubbock. He's 6'3" and a hot mess. While he was going to medical school 20 years ago, he worked at night. After work he would jog through his nice, mostly white neighborhood - many nights cop cars would pass by him slowly, then take another pass. He got stopped all the time because he drove a nice car. When he would stop by Walmart at midnight on the way home, he could feel people watching him and he'd mess with them, acting sketchy - it's what they expected. He would walk by cars in a parking lot at night and hear door locks engaging. When we'd go out together people would stare and smile as if they were ok with it - once when we went to see Les Miserables in Houston, three white guys walked behind us making comments about (racial slur) and white girls. Saddest to me was the time I introduced him to one of my friends - she asked what he did for a living, he said he was in medical school and her first reaction was to laugh, and then caught herself. Other people would always feel like the stupid thing to say would be, "I have a lot of black friends". He'd say, "yeah? What are their names?" hahaha - stumped 1/2 of them.

Another good friend is high up in the space program (was), he called me once while driving in Houston - he had a convertible something - he said the cool thing about the convertible is when he decided to act like the crazy (slur) speeding down the road, people got out of the way because they thought he had a gun, of course he was kidding, but he could. He was stopped a lot. Once, he was put up against the back of his car with two cops telling him they knew he was lying about where he had just been - there'd been a robbery close by - they detained him for two hours - even after telling them who he was. Sadly, he and my other friend were used to it and hardly worth mentioning at the end of the day.

You know what both of them agree upon when it comes to racism? They're way more comfortable with the outspoken, honest racist. They know exactly where they stand. They have both said it's the racists who act like they're not racist, that scare them. AA's instinctively know the difference.

Both agree a racist would do just what GZ is being accused of in the media - and a 17 yr. old whose been told all his life the white man is not to be trusted, would do just what Zimmerman said Trayvon did.

IMO, one only has to turn on the television in the past three weeks to see nothing has changed - white and AA children are still being told why they should fear each other. This case is the perfect storm.

But GZ had a choice and did not have to contribute to it. He should have let LE do their job. Take the "black" out of the equation and he's a kid with a hoodie and the end result was the same. GZ should have waited for LE. jmo

 

[gxm]

<mod snip>
GZ's call history does not include 49 calls. The 47-page document lists, as best I can tell, 45 calls made since 2004. As for the kids playing. He did not call and complain that they were playing, he called to complain about them playing in the street. In April 2011, he called in a complaint about a child walking alone to school on a busy street which he felt was unsafe.

IMO, GZ did call the cops too much. But if you read through his call history, he called in complaints about white people, hispanics, women, and even dogs. IMO his complaint history does not reveal a bias, but it does show that he was a busy body with a penchant for calling LE.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[stmarysmead]

I think the people who care about the Martins are busy right now getting justice for Trayvon. The battle to end perceived reverse-racism will have to wait for another day.

Study other cases. That ability to get justice can be negatively affected by the inability to demand "justice" and honesty from those who insert themselves. People get turned off, turn away.

When those who are angry about profiling, profile a entire ther race...when those who want the truth about their case to be revealed, tolerate outrageous lies...something happens as to how THEY are perceived.

 

[LambChop]

It's not only blacks that are treated like criminals by LE, every race has it's share of being treated badly by them, whites included.

In this case LE would not have shot TM. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He had nothing on him that would make him fear for his life. jmo

 

[Etilema]

http://news.yahoo.com/nbc-news-regrets-editing-trayvon-shooting-call-220720073.html

Gosh...I wonder what else we'll find out was twisted or otherwise taken out of context?

You know, the news outlets aren't doing anyone any favors by presenting information inaccurately.

 

[Etilema]

It's not only blacks that are treated like criminals by LE, every race has it's share of being treated badly by them, whites included.

I'm sure that people from every race have been treated badly by cops in various circumstances, for the cops' reasons (youth, gender, how they are dressed, social class, apparent circumstances of the case, or whatever). But there are racial trends.

 

[Etilema]

In this case LE would not have shot TM. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He had nothing on him that would make him fear for his life. jmo

Shot? Why would there even be an expectation or suspicion that LE might shoot him?

 

[Etilema]

Similar things are being said by others we are not alowed to discuss here. Someone who cares about the Martins should go on National TV and make it clear that they do not condone that type of language. Because they are truly losing support and respect with this type of "friend." When one is part of a story that bcomes a media sensation, it is really crucial to "call out your own" when they go WAY too far. We cannot mention other cases, but believe me...the public turns on you if you tolerate "friends" like some of the "friends" jumping into this case. Zimmermann will have a ticker tape parade through Sanford if they continue to outrage and offend BEYOND FACT.

Racism is ugly on any skin hue and even when wearing a hat.

Yes, again with people not doing anyone any favors by sensationalizing and generalizing.

 

[LambChop]

Study other cases. That ability to get justice can be negatively affected by the inability to demand "justice" and honesty from those who insert themselves. People get turned off, turn away.

When those who are angry about profiling, profile a entire ther race...when those who want the truth about their case to be revealed, tolerate outrageous lies...something happens as to how THEY are perceived.

I see the Martin's trying to get justice the right way. Lies are only revealed when you speak out and want the authorities to do a thorough investigation. They have that right. Had they accepted what LE was telling them at face value no one would have questioned how TM ended up dead. Their son was shot to death and he just happened to be black. If TM had been white the family would still want the same answers but there is less of a chance they could have gotten the whole community behind them.

Sometimes to get to the truth you have to wade through outrageous lies. The Martin's are asking for the truth, they are asking for LE to investigate to prove it was self defense and not just take GZ's word for it. If GZ is telling the truth the evidence will prove it. jmo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Someday we need to have a respectful conversation about this issue of profiling.

If a community of hard working people starts having burgularies, vandalism etc...and, looking at the STATISTICS...the COLD FACTS...of these crimes...there is a pattern that the description of the people involved... matches that of the Amish community nearby...unfortunately, IMO, residents will begin to be watchful of Amish looking strangers in their area...partcularly at night,or at times when these acts of crime or vandalism are taking place. Does that mean they HATE Amish? No, it means they are reacting to the REALITY of the crime statistics in their neighborhood.

They did not wake up fearing Amish kids....they are reacting to the REALITY of crime in the place they live. Maybe it is people who look like they are Bangladesh and wear traditional Indian garb committing , BY STATISTICS, the crime in another area. People will then..."profile" differently. Is this outrageous?

I would like to see a 3 three year printout of crime statitics in that condo area and in Sanford, before I condemn GZ.

The way to solve the problem is not to blame the people who are having their property defaced, their homes burgalarized. They are desparate to be safe. You cannot FORCE them to reject the reality of the situation in their neighborhood.

The problem is solved by all good people facing facts.

In all the hysteria and the condemnation of GZ...all the political posturing about Black Children being hunted down and killed by Whites...have we seen any statistics? How many Black youngsters are tragically killed by Hispanic Neighbor Watch Captains every year? How many by other Black children? You can read the statistics for yourself.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

This is what is apalling and deceptive about politicans like this one (link follows)... the softball questions the media asks of her. WHO REALLY is hunting down and killing 4/5 of Black homicide victims? Not WHITE HISPANIC Watch Captains. Not other Whites. If she wants to stop this TRAGEDY...she can start by dealing with REALITY. WE Should ALL join together to deal with THE TRUTH. Not this hysterical nonsense! How many children will it save if she is "solving" the wrong problem? Who does that help? HER...to get re-elected? She is not saving the vast majority of children she claims to care about...by concentrating on this one case. She claims Black Children are being "hunted like dogs in the street" Then STATISCALLY, she should speak the truth as to who really is hunting them.

Then maaybe we can all, as part of the human family, work to solve the issue.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/...h-was-murder-congresswoman.html#storylink=cpy

The politiization of this case is already having a backlash. Just in a few weeks,at a meeting of a diverse group of people of all backgrounds...I have seen an amazing change. Sympathy has been replaced by a counter reaction to all the hysteria, bile, and hate shown to GZ. It may feel good but it is counterproductive.

Very well said. We have the media to thank for making this a black vs "white hispanic" issue.

 

[TonyGatto]

You know, the news outlets aren't doing anyone any favors by presenting information inaccurately.

Aside from the NBC News bad edit -- what other inaccuracies are there?

 

[LambChop]

Shot? Why would there even be an expectation or suspicion that LE might shoot him?

There isn't any expectation. To LE it was just a call of a suspicious person they would have questioned him and let him go. TM would have been aware they were LE...their car, their uniform, they identify themselves, etc. GZ had none of those identifiers, he was just a stranger following TM. Everyone reacts differently that is why we pay police, pay for their uniforms, their badges, ID cards, vehicles that are clearly marked. They get paid to do their job. Even if TM had run they would have just gone after him but no one would have shot him because LE knows how to handle these situations. GZ clear knew what he was suppose to do as a private citizen, he chose not to. jmo

 

[Sensei]

Aside from the NBC News bad edit -- what other inaccuracies are there?

The problem is that we don't know what inaccuracies there are. We have the story that Trayvons father tells about what he was told about how the confrontation happened. We have F Taafe's story of what he was told (presumably by Zimmerman) of what happened, we have Zimmerman's brother's story of what he was told and then we have Oliver's story, and of course we have the official story that the police told about Zimmerman being attacked. What we need to be able to examine would be Zimmermans actual story the one that he actually told before any embellishements or refinement what he told police and his signed statement from the night it happened, and we are not going to get that.

I am of the opinion that the story of that night and the story being told by all the friends and family of Zimmerman has undergone extensive revision and tweaking to make it more Self Defense friendly, IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I wonder how they identified Trayvon for the police report that night if they didn’t have his phone, didn’t they know his name when they almost accidentally sent him to the funeral home as a john doe? I may be confused about that. But if they really don’t have it, I wonder if they tossed it to help GZ after retired magistrate Judge Zimmerman went to the police station (& maybe crime scene) that night? I can’t help but think the former judge used influence/intimidation to get George out of this mess, I mean after all, George was allowed to go home within hours as though nothing had happened. JMO JMO

From Fox35 interview March 28 retired Judge Robert Zimmerman (starts at 14:50 mark):

“I was a magistrate judge.” (Q-Do you think your being a judge has affected the case in any way… do you think they gave George an easier time out because of that?) “No one knew that I was a retired magistrate Judge [that night], I didn’t mention it to the police, I didn’t mention it to the state attorney’s office.” (my transcription)

Also interesting is the judge’s comment admitting to meeting with the state attorney’s office and police THAT NIGHT. JMO.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/trayvon_martin/032812-exclusive-robert-zimmerman-interview

ETA: And what do you want to bet that George told police, “I need to call my dad, he’s a judge”. JMO

There's no evidence of his father using his influence in any way, effectively or ineffectively to help GZ. How exactly would the conversation go? How does a magistrate intimidate police into covering up a supposed murder?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

If GA had stayed with his vehicle and waited for LE this never would have happened. LE wouldn't have shot TM. It appears to me that all the other residents that called 911 this night did exactly what they had been told.....wait for police to arrive. jmo

Respectfully, he wasn't told to wait for police to arrive. It's another false statement that seems to be taken as fact in this case.

 

[LambChop]

The problem is that we don't know what inaccuracies there are. We have the story that Trayvons father tells about what he was told about how the confrontation happened. We have F Taafe's story of what he was told (presumably by Zimmerman) of what happened, we have Zimmerman's brother's story of what he was told and then we have Oliver's story, and of course we have the official story that the police told about Zimmerman being attacked. What we need to be able to examine would be Zimmermans actual story the one that he actually told before any embellishements or refinement what he told police and his signed statement from the night it happened, and we are not going to get that.

I am of the opinion that the story of that night and the story being told by all the friends and family of Zimmerman has undergone extensive revision and tweaking to make it more Self Defense friendly, IMO JMHO and stuff.

Plus we do know the homocide detective, who would have been the expert investigator in this case, wanted GZ arrested for homocide that night before all the facts were in because he had determined that it was not self defense. jmo

 

[Etilema]

Aside from the NBC News bad edit -- what other inaccuracies are there?

Any inaccuracies or plain sloppiness are problematic, IMO. The media is aware of the impact of photos, yet showed outdated photos of both Trayvon (looking young and sweet) and George Z (looking portly and out of shape). Also, ABC apparently initially stated that George looked unharmed in police video, then later made the enhanced video to show apparent injuries.

I am not saying these are extreme issues, just that whenever they appear to show bias in either direction, it will be noticed and used to demonstrate that the facts have been blown out of proportion and discredit the other side.

It's not like the national media is unsophisticated and unaware of their level of responsibility, although they seem to act as if they are.

All JMO, and I'm sure arguments could be made from other perspectives.

 

[stmarysmead]

Aside from the NBC News bad edit -- what other inaccuracies are there?

Why was a picture that was years old shown for weeks... a picture of a child, not the picture of how TM looked as a young adult...why was that HOAX perpetrated by the media for weeks. TM chose a picture for his Twitter account. HE CHOSE IT. It was not used. A picture of him, years younger...as a child was used.

ABC initially says...no wounds to GZ...it takes days for them to gt the...(wait for it!) really, really ar out idea...to ENLARGE and AMPLIFY the film. Oh gee, now they see injuries.

Was this voice analysis done ...scream to scream? No. Scream vs normal voice tones. Also, why was a comparison NOT done to TM. Maybe because if they took TM's voice vs the scream...they would not get a match there either. And that wouldn't help push the story in the direction they want.

This has all happened before...and the media came out looking ridiculous.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

:banghead:

<Mod Snip>George's story have come from others, third and fourth hearsay..I want to hear/see his interview with the detectives they conducted. I want to hear him, I want to see his body language. So, all that we are discussing are all hearsay on what George has told his friends/family on what went down. Until we hear from <Mod Snip> George himself, we are all speculating on what the media has reported...I want George Zimmerman own words, not those of others..:jail:

 

[kline]

Zimmerman is not considered a suspect. Why would he talk about it? I'm sure his lawyer has advised him not to talk as well. The SPD's decision is being investigated - I would imagine his attorney has advised him as well. JMO

Any Lawyer worth his salt would cram a Law Book in Zimmerman's mouth to keep him from talking to the media at this point.