2009.06.22 Nancy Grace

[MAMABEAR]

I've not heard that the duct was put on while she was alive, only that it was allegedly put on before decomposition began.

If I was on the jury, that would be e-nuff for me---31 days---tattoo---party hardy---hiddin from folks---death smell in car---the list goes on. Sure would be e-nuff for me.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I've not heard that the duct was put on while she was alive, only that it was allegedly put on before decomposition began.

OK...there is NO POINT in a murderer putting multiple layers of DUCT TAPE on a CHILD after that child is already DECEASED.

That will be it for me.

 

[MAMABEAR]

I guess if the duct tape was the only thang then I might give it a second thought.

 

[cyberborg]

Also, the Lady Attorney on the panel said, "If Casey had a Good Lawyer" he would try for a plea. haha

KC has a cross section of attorney's in her Defense team "collection" but I think she is still missing the good lawyer piece. She needs to add one

 

[impatientredhead]

I've not heard that the duct was put on while she was alive, only that it was allegedly put on before decomposition began.

I've not heard that it was put on when she was dead.
That is a two way road in the courtroom.
My client's daughter was dead when she decorated the corpse with duct tape and heart stickers before tossing her out in a garbage bag should sit well with the jurors.

 

[Jolynna]

Exactly. Consider the difference in size between Casey and Caylee.

Exactly.

KC could sit on her holding Caylee's arms down with her legs. That would leave KC's hands free to tape.

 

[Devon]

And to beat the same dead horse the state is not required to prove premeditation. Death of a child during the act of aggravated child abuse is a capital crime in the state of Florida. There is a reason she was indicted for aggravated child abuse. Any reasonable person would find duct taping the mouth of a child to be abusive, and abusive to the level that any reasonable person could predict it causing severe damage or pain to the victim. Whether the state can prove premeditation (and I believe they can) it is not an issue.

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

 

[Wudge]

OK...there is NO POINT in a murderer putting multiple layers of DUCT TAPE on a CHILD after that child is already DECEASED.

That will be it for me.

Staging was mentioned earlier (not by me). Or to stop the flow of body fluids post death . Most importantly, no proof of life found on the tape nor was the tape found to have been related to her death.

(significant multiple problems)

 

[Wudge]

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

Correct. For the tape to be associated with abuse, proof is needed that it went on while she was alive.

 

[believe09]

And to beat the same dead horse the state is not required to prove premeditation. Death of a child during the act of aggravated child abuse is a capital crime in the state of Florida. There is a reason she was indicted for aggravated child abuse. Any reasonable person would find duct taping the mouth of a child to be abusive, and abusive to the level that any reasonable person could predict it causing severe damage or pain to the victim. Whether the state can prove premeditation (and I believe they can) it is not an issue.

Or death...thank you for pointing out the aggravator in this case so nicely.

 

[maryaok]

Exactly.

KC could sit on her holding Caylee's arms down with her legs. That would leave KC's hands free to tape.

Or, Caylee could have been in her carseat when Casey jumped in the back and taped her up for crying! The thing to me that proves this was no accident, is that she never came forward and said it was accident. If she had half a brain, she would have said, it was an accident. She COULD probably still come forward and say it was an accident and be cut some slack! I don't know why that isn't better to her than the DP. Oh well. Loved LP tonight! Right on!

 

[impatientredhead]

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

Premeditated murder has its own statute.
Death during the commission of aggravated abuse is another statute.
Both punishable by death.
The state has two ways to get to the same end point.

 

[believe09]

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

I don't believe anyone has stated definitively that the duct tape was to murder Caylee:waitasec:...although it might have led to her death.

 

[maryaok]

She could say, I just meant to shut her up. I thought she fell asleep, when I pulled over to get her out of the car, she wasn't sleeping she was dead. I was too scared to get help, I drove around not knowing what to do because I was terrified of my mother. The end.

 

[panthera]

I've not heard that it was put on when she was dead.
That is a two way road in the courtroom.
My client's daughter was dead when she decorated the corpse with duct tape and heart stickers before tossing her out in a garbage bag should sit well with the jurors.

Oh yes, that would certainly work! I don't believe the defense is going to challenge when the duct tape was placed, at least not during the guilt/innocence phase of the trial, but rather try to infer that somebody else did it. When it comes to the penalty phase, they might address it. MOO

 

[Wudge]

I've not heard that it was put on when she was dead.
That is a two way road in the courtroom.
My client's daughter was dead when she decorated the corpse with duct tape and heart stickers before tossing her out in a garbage bag should sit well with the jurors.

The burden of proof rests entirely with the State. A lack of evidence that the tape was put on before Cayleee died is not, in any way, proof or beneficial to the State.

 

[impatientredhead]

She could say, I just meant to shut her up. I thought she fell asleep, when I pulled over to get her out of the car, she wasn't sleeping she was dead. I was too scared to get help, I drove around not knowing what to do because I was terrified of my mother. The end.

This scenario falls under the felony murder scenario, death during the commission of another felony; duct taping your child to shut them up is a felony.

If she was willing to say this is what happened she would stay off death row most likely, but the time to say this was a loooonnng time ago to make any real difference in her charges.

 

[panthera]

She could say, I just meant to shut her up. I thought she fell asleep, when I pulled over to get her out of the car, she wasn't sleeping she was dead. I was too scared to get help, I drove around not knowing what to do because I was terrified of my mother. The end.

Covering both her nose and mouth with duct tape indicates the killer didn't want the victim to be able to breathe. The explanation you offered won't work, imo!

 

[Searchfortruth]

But if the duct tape was used to murder Caylee then it wouldn't be classed as abuse. All murder is abusive to the victim, whether it be by stabbing, shooting, beating, hanging or whatever, so if the actual method of killing is also classed as aggravated abuse then all murders would automatically be felony murders - but they're not.

Duct tape on the face of a child is agg child abuse...and if the abuse leads to death it's felony murder. There are other factors that combine w/ death to equal murder as in robbery, etc...All murders are abuse, but if you shoot an adult it's murder, 1st degree, 2nd degree or manslaughter...there is no abuse plus death = murder in adults, like there is in the case of a child. Maybe I read your statement wrong, but I thought this was what you were referring to.

 

[impatientredhead]

The burden of proof rests entirely with the State. A lack of evidence that the tape was put on before Cayleee died is not, in any way, proof or beneficial to the State.

The jury will decide for themselves if there is a reasonable doubt that Casey intentionally harmed (via child abuse or murder) her daughter. There are many many people on death row with victims where the cause of death was unknown.