2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[Tuffy]

Actually when I first saw that picture I thought the red was something on the inside of the bag, pizza sauce or spagetti sauce. Llike maybe it had been laying on it's side where the stain is.

I think if it was on the inside of the bag, we would have a description/analysis of it in evidence along with all the other contents of the bag.

Do you guys remember when they tried to recreate the trunk conditions? You know with and without the pizza, and the squirrel?

Actually we haven't heard anything like a description/analysis of the red stain at all have we?

 

[3doglady]

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html Close up picture of bag and what looks like dead maggots. I think it's #73. GA described the sound of maggots in the bag ( I think in his depo but I don't have the link now)

 

[cloud9]

I think the important thing to remember, it is documented in a report that LE found the garbage bags in TL apartment once they searched with his permission, that matched the one thrown in the dumpster by SB collected from Casey's trunk.

Simon was mistaken, easily enough.

Yellow drawstrings are far more common than blue in my opinion. Plus, if the car stunk that bad, who would spend their time focusing on the color of the drawstrings as you quickly toss it into the bin?

Your mind is pulling ten different directions. Trying to comfort the guy whose concerned for the safety of his grand baby whose car smells like death, trying to run a business, trying to listen to and react to everything he is saying, all the while trying to make mental notes yet get it over and away from that stinky car as quickly, tactfully and professionally as possible.

Thank you!

I needed that! LOL Ok, one thing in my mind solved: BLUE handles! :dance:

 

[Kentjbkent]

That is a good guess.... IDK!!! I am still confused.... He also states on page 20 that the bag had yellow ties and the one in the photo has blue ties.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642040/Burch-Simon---Statement

All I have to say is that I hope SB doesn't have an exwife or girlfriend who can state to Baez' investigator that he has been in possession of duct tape in the past, or he is the next one under Baez' bus! :dance:

 

[Reagan]

I have great faith this picture could help prove the stain was worse before LE got the car, if in fact the stain had somehow become less visible.
That is a sticky, suspicious stain on the outside of a trash bag that Casey removed from AL apartment and placed in the trunk of family car containing decomposition, she solely drove. I would say, that stain on the outside of the bag with the pizza box in it is what, "basketball size"?

I've never seen that photo in color. That's so sad.. considering what we're most likely looking at.

I don't have a link, but I read that decomposition fluids are rust-like in color. I had searched about it, because there was something similar in color leaking out of a drain outside of my apartment then later was leaking out of the ceiling in the hallway. This was a few months back, and I never found out what it was.

 

[Reagan]

I recommend you at least watch part 5 of the Mythbuster's episode I posted to get familiar with what decomposition fluid looks like.

You beat me to it and already addressed this. Remind me to finish the thread before posting. :shutup:

 

[strawberry]

I think if it was on the inside of the bag, we would have a description/analysis of it in evidence along with all the other contents of the bag.
.........

Yes, that was just my first impression. It's interesting (and nauseating) to look at it with new eyes that it may be on the outside.

 

[strawberry]

Wow, I was the last post on this before? I was just watching Snapped about Brookie Lee West who killed her mother and stuffed her in a trash can in a storage unit. The mother was found after a foul odor complaint. There was a reddish liquid oozing from the can. The photos they showed....the liquid looked EXACTLY like the liquid on the trashbag that has been discussed in this thread.

 

[strawberry]

OK, now I'm just talking to myself but...then Snapped mentioned blowflies and coffin flies and, I think what they said was, the fact that there were coffin flies but not blowflies showed how quickly Brookie sealed her mother up in a trash can (with duct tape no less). So I googled Brooke and guess who the forensic entomologist was who testified in that case...Dr. Neil Haskell! Same as the FL State's expert! Is this something everyone else knows? I didn't read through all of both threads on this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/12file-fly.html

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

I have not had a chance to read both threads. Is there a report on the maggots and what they found in their DNA?

The article is about 1/3 down the page.

Thursday, May 21, 2009

Dissecting Cindy Anthony's Statement: What "Maggots in the Trunk" Could Tell Us



by Karen Chabert, RN

When Casey Anthony’s car was found, her father went to pick it up at the impound lot. George Anthony stated to the FBI that the smell was immediately identifiable as decomposition. He said he was praying that it would not be the body of his daughter Casey or granddaughter Caylee in the trunk. He should know that smell. He was a law enforcement officer and has smelled that unmistakable odor before. As a forensic nurse death investigator, I can tell you, the smell is one you never forget.

 

[JBean]

bumpity bump

 

[TorisMom003]

When George Anthony states that it smells like human decomp, you can bet that's what it was. He was a Homicide detective after all.

I completely agree. I'm including George's FBI interview that pertains to the smell as well. George did know what the smell was even if he didn't want to believe it. All of the interview is a good read and helps remind people that George definately knew more than he was letting on to Cindy or the public.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224461/detail.html

Page 68

GA: So, after we paid for everything the gentleman comes out I can't remember what his name is. Um, we walk through a particular gate where this public lot's at. I got within 3 feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this, in this world. And I've smelled that odor before. It smelled like...like a de...decomposed body. I'm being very straight with you guys.

SB: Yeah.

GA: I got a sick feeling for a second. Because a car that was all closed up and (inaudible)...from me to you away from it and you can smell an odor. You don't forget that odor. No matter what it was, you never, ever forget it.

SB: I agree with you. And you know this because?

Page 69

GA: Being deputy sherriff for all the years I was. I have investigate...

SB: You had exposure to decomposing bodies?

GA: Yes and a lot of different ways. But as I looked around the car. First thing I looked around make sure all the tires were up.

SB: Uh-huh. (affirmative)

Page 70 - snipped talk about purse, Caylee's car seat and bag etc in car.

GA: So, any how as I went around the driver's side the guy was almost as close to you and I walking right behind me. And as I opened up the door it just...that smell took my breath away. I mean it was that strong. I reached over to the passenger door and (inaudible)...flipped opened the passenger door 'cause I had to let this thing vent for awhile.

SB: Yeah.

Page 73 - snipped leaving out talk about opening the trunk and taking out trash bag.

SB: Are you, are you convinced and, and based on what you know as a law enforcement officer and your background. Are you, are you convinced in any way that the maggots were solely caused by the pizza or...or do you think that there's a distinct odor that you recognized that say that was in the car?

GA: (No verbal response)

SB: And you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but I'm...I'm just...I'm putting it out there based on what I know and I'm asking for your opinion.

GA: That distinct odor that's something you never forget. That distinct odor I...I...I believe something was placed in the back of that trunk. I don't want to believe it was my granddaughter.

SB: I understand.

GA: I don't want to believe it...it's any other kind of um, any other thing but that pizza. That's all I'm gonna try to believe that smell (inaudible)...I deep inside my heart feel it's not.

SB: It's not your granddaughter?

GA: Well, let's put it this way I'm hoping that it's not.

SB: Right.

GA: I want to believe that it's not. I mean I...I'm trying to believe it's not. But then again like I said and you guys know. Once you smell that smell you just, you never get over it. The stain that was in the trunk of my daughter's car after we got it home and I...I mean I opened up the trunk. We had the windows rolled down the sunroof open. Instantaneously that get in your house just like that.

SB: Yeah.

____________________________________________________

The defense is going to have a difficult uphill battle during the trial when you have more than one person (and one of those people being the defendent's father) saying that the smell in the car is the smell of human decomposition.

 

[ynotdivein]

bumpity bump

 

[kaRN]

I had a family member die in their house and it was 2 weeks before he was found. We had a cleaning company come out to the house and you still couldn't get the smell out. The person died in their recliner. Every piece of furniture in the living room had to be tossed. The wood floor under the lay-z-boy had permanent stains in it. We tried sanding it but the stain was all the way to the bottom of the wood (sad too cause the would floor was over 100 years old and in gorgeous shape). The wall paper had to be removed several coats of killz primer were applied to the walls before the color coat. In other rooms of the house everything that was fabric or "soft" material had to be washed several times, or tossed. Most of it was tossed.

So after having a professional cleaning company come out. Getting everything out of the house and doing renovations. That room still smelled as did the rest of the house. The rest of the house wasn't to bad but the room the person died in still had a pronounced "odor".

In fact that odor was still rather pronounced a year later which was the last time I was in the house.

Even years later it returns, if the humidity is right. There's a unit in the coop I live in where a similar event took place 10 years ago and maintenance gets complaints all summer.

 

[Sammiejam]

http://www.wesh.com/r/25393856/detail.html

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks this is GREAT news! It must be possible to link the flies found on the poor wee munchkin and in the laundry bag to the ones on the found on the paper towels and in the car!

I bet JB is not smirking quite so hard today...

 

[treeseeker]

http://www.wesh.com/r/25393856/detail.html

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me thinks this is GREAT news! It must be possible to link the flies found on the poor wee munchkin and in the laundry bag to the ones on the found on the paper towels and in the car!

I bet JB is not smirking quite so hard today...

This new evidence list may have something to do with the Defense requesting an examination of the coffin flies by their own expert:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/57237092/10122010-Stipulation-Re-Exam-Of-Evidence---Huntington

Possibly they're creating a separate list of items removed from State's custody for examination?

Link courtesy of Muzikman.

 

[joypath]

This new evidence list may have something to do with the Defense requesting an examination of the coffin flies by their own expert:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/57237092/10122010-Stipulation-Re-Exam-Of-Evidence---Huntington

Possibly they're creating a separate list of items removed from State's custody for examination?

Link courtesy of Muzikman.

:twocents:This is SOP. :twocents: AND, :banghead:may I add with great restraint, :bangheadccurring at a time further into the case than usual! :furious: As the SA noted on the record, this material was, and has been available to the defense for a significant time period;that they were ready, willing and able to engage in the transference of said material JUST AS THEY DO IN ANY CASE when a FORMAL BY THE BOOK (if you will) MOTION/REQUEST is made thru the judicial system. :snooty:HE77 NO,:snooty: just because JB & company are running their case like "PICK A CLUE R US" does NOT mean the entire world of forensic (heck common sense!) science runs the same way, "willie-nillie" or in this case, "jossie-chennie-by-anthonie"!
IIRC :blushingparaphrasing at best!) :blushing:, AZLawyer gave her legal comment that this motion protected the evidence (no WAY DO I SPEAK FOR HER!!!!); I always regard it as the "bumble-stumble" clause; the defense can't BLAME the LAB if THEY (the defense) screw up the sample as they are testing it or if we can't confirm THE results their experts got or if they LOST it in transit!:dance:

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/25828004/detail.html

Bugs, Smell Of Death Key To Casey Anthony Prosecutors
Forensic Entomologist To Testify At Anthony Murder Trial Next Year

"In a 30-page report that's key to the state's claims, he noted that microscopic scuttle flies, or "coffin flies" as he refers to them, were feeding on decompositional fluids in the trunk of Anthony's car as well as paper towels that may have been used to clean the vehicle.

According to the his estimates, Caylee Anthony's remains were placed in the area off of Suburban Drive in late June to early July, while Casey Anthony was still free."

Forensic Entomology Report
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/15084977/Forensic-Entymology-Report

 

[Intermezzo]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...indings-are-bad-news-for-anthony-defense.html

“We have a whole array of insects that come in at different times of that decompositional progression,” Haskell said. “Insects don’t lie.”

That’s a line to remember.

The Anthony defense team will depose Haskell on Friday, and it disputes some of his findings, WESH anchor Martha Sugalski added."

 

[Starfish]

This recent information stating that the body was dumped sometime at the end of June or the beginning of July is interesting. When you consider the FBI reports that state the trunk air tests show 2.6 days, the theory of the body being moved is looking very likely. If Caylee was killed in the middle of the month and not dumped until the end of the month where was her body for 11-12 days? Was it in the trunk for 2.6 days, removed, put back in & dumped? Was it dumped/hidden somewhere for 11 or so days then moved? Will we ever know???????