2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

[Snaz]

Is being an evil wench who cares only about themselves considered a mental illness??? :bang:

 

[seagull65]

Her family and real friends all said they didn't recognize this person in the jailhouse phone calls at all, that she would never let anything happen to Caylee or just go around not knowing where Caylee was and not do anything about it. They all said her personality when she was arrested appeared to be radically changed. Although they had known her to tell what they thought were white lies in the past, always about harmless things. They all said she loved Caylee and would never let harm come to her.

 

[coco puff]

I think her bizarre "blank" regarding Caylee, as well as her urgency in wanting only to talk to TL with no concern or urgency about Caylee at all (and not faking like she was concerned about Caylee either) is very interesting. Also the way in her interviews she seems to have even taken on a bit of Tony's accent at times. As well as her saying she'd spoken to Caylee that day (but what she describes actually sounds like that video, with Caylee and her book, like she's mixing up her memory of watching that video vs. talking to Caylee on the phone?), and her saying that the friend she confided in about Caylee being missing was Juliet Lewis (like the movie actress?). And her confusing past and current events such as a job that she had in 2006, walking all the way up to the door with LE before they confronted her with it and said this isn't true. Her continually telling LE things that would be found out to be false immediately, obviously not doing herself any service. Her changing stories about what happened and not seeming to realize this destroys her credibility, seeming to believe both stories equally and repeating them in an almost mechanical fashion. I think all of these things are very interesting and could be very significant. I hope the defense get to the bottom of it but I'm not so sure. Maybe Baez thinks she's guilty so hasn't pressed for information from her. What if he's wrong. Hope they had thorough medical/mental examination of her done. The one lawyer who left the case said she suffers from mental illness.

But she didn't fake the phone call, she just said it happened, obviously they found out immediately it wasn't true. The same with all the things she told them that were not true.

Very good point! :blowkiss:

 

[seagull65]

I agree. It is NOT the media telling us Casey was not a good mother and did NOT love Caylee it was CASEY herself, in her own voice on her terms in that office at universal. It was Casey not giving a flying fudge where and what was happening to her sweet baby those 31 days she was missing. If my child was missing for an hour and I did not know if he was hungry or cold or scared you better believe I would not be hanging out with a man I just met, renting movies. LOVE = action - you SHOW your love, it is not just a word to throw around.

If Casey loved Caylee she would have actually had a job and a real nanny and made sure Caylee was safe and she as her mother was doing everything possible to give her a good life, instead she was faking a job so that her mother would watch her "snot" while she went out with her friends.

Yes, it was all very, very weird, none of it necessarily means she's the one who harmed Caylee. And all of this could very much mean that she's had some kind of mental trauma or break or her delusions had gotten worse.


You did notice in the LE original interviews how they all picked up on the peculiarity of the things she was saying and all wound up asking her at different times if she'd ever been under treatment for mental illness, ever been in the mental hospital, was on any meds for mental illness, etc.

 

[seagull65]

Anyway I do hope the defense don't limit themselves to RK even though his ex-wife's testimony is definitely interesting. But there were other potential SODDI's too who also weren't investigated enough IMO

 

[coco puff]

Her family and real friends all said they didn't recognize this person in the jailhouse phone calls at all, that she would never let anything happen to Caylee or just go around not knowing where Caylee was and not do anything about it. They all said her personality when she was arrested appeared to be radically changed. Although they had known her to tell what they thought were white lies in the past, always about harmless things. They all said she loved Caylee and would never let harm come to her.

I know what you are trying to say. I had a mom that was one person to the outside world and the complete oposite when we were alone. This is a personality trait. I've seen it and lived with it.

You could hear KC's horrible attitude and disrespect on the phone to her parents after she was arrested. They sure didn't act like it was the first time she had spoken to them like that.

 

[Snaz]

Yes, it was all very, very weird, none of it necessarily means she's the one who harmed Caylee. And all of this could very much mean that she's had some kind of mental trauma or break or her delusions had gotten worse.


You did notice in the LE original interviews how they all picked up on the peculiarity of the things she was saying and all wound up asking her at different times if she'd ever been under treatment for mental illness, ever been in the mental hospital, was on any meds for mental illness, etc.

Casey, by her own admission AND her mother's, was never sick or on any type of meds. And don't forget, JS ordered KC to undergo mental evaluations BEFORE she was released from jail..... if she was so delusional that she suddenly went from this loving mother to psycho killer, they would never had released her.....

Just sayin'

 

[Mendara]

Her family and real friends all said they didn't recognize this person in the jailhouse phone calls at all, that she would never let anything happen to Caylee or just go around not knowing where Caylee was and not do anything about it. They all said her personality when she was arrested appeared to be radically changed. Although they had known her to tell what they thought were white lies in the past, always about harmless things. They all said she loved Caylee and would never let harm come to her.

With cases like these that end in the murder of a wife or child the killer is always exposed for who they really are. Casey is a liar that is a fact - you can hear her lying on any one of those LE tapes, it is NOT shocking that she lied to her friends and family. White lies?? Lying to your entire circle of friends and family about having a full time job and a nanny for two years is a huge scary lie. That one lie is frightening. Casey's lies were falling a part - her mother was pushing her to be independent - her new man liked the Event Planner with money, who was attending classes at Valencia and had a nanny which gave them their alone time. How long could she go on stealing from friends in order to buy groceries and entertain her man?

It was time to make a move - and she chose to kill her daughter rather than be exposed for the evil, lying, cheating, fake insecure nut job she really was.

The motive for this murder is monumental and in your face.

 

[Mendara]

Yes, it was all very, very weird, none of it necessarily means she's the one who harmed Caylee. And all of this could very much mean that she's had some kind of mental trauma or break or her delusions had gotten worse.


You did notice in the LE original interviews how they all picked up on the peculiarity of the things she was saying and all wound up asking her at different times if she'd ever been under treatment for mental illness, ever been in the mental hospital, was on any meds for mental illness, etc.

I think the mental illness issue comes up when people have a hard time believing someone can be so evil and cruel and still be sane. I have NO problem recognizing evil and pointing it out. I don't need her to be crazy to understand how she could have done this. I don't need to make peace with it by saying "oh she must be crazy or have mental problems because her mother is so cruel, maybe she reacts this way because of this and this" - I just need her to be selfish and her actions since the day her daughter was born were all self serving.

IMO - KC Anthony is a spoiled, insecure, uneducated, lazy, evil, pathological manipulator who killed her baby because she wanted to be free - I don't need her to be crazy.

 

[Snaz]

I think the mental illness issue comes up when people have a hard time believing someone can be so evil and cruel and still be sane. I have NO problem recognizing evil and pointing it out. I don't need her to be crazy to understand how she could have done this. I don't need to make peace with it by saying "oh she must be crazy or have mental problems because her mother is so cruel, maybe she reacts this way because of this and this" - I just need her to be selfish and her actions since the day her daughter was born were all self serving.

IMO - KC Anthony is a spoiled, insecure, uneducated, lazy, evil, pathological manipulator who killed her baby because she wanted to be free - I don't need her to be crazy.

BBM

This deserves more than just the thanks button! You nailed it!!

 

[msinformed]

http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthonyblog/index.html

Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer on Casey Anthony Case
Witness for the Prosecution or Fall Guy for the Defense?

Thought it appropriate to place this here, as well as on the AL thread. Hope that's okay, Mods.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I have come to the understanding that the defense must look at every possible alternative to the killer being Casey to defend her. What I still do not understand, is why this is not being done in court? Why is the defense speaking to the media?

And, I would be very scared to be in this country if it is true, that Casey had nothing to do with the murder of her child and LE and the state can keep an innocent person in jail, threatening them with the death penalty. Are we looking at a completely innocent woman sitting in jail while the real killer is loose? I know that is what JB would like for everyone to think. I admit that I defer to authority, although I know authority is not always correct-in the idea that if LE has arrested someone and the SA and Judge are not pressing any charges on other people-that they have strong evidence to do so.

Am I terribly mistaken?

The latest news says that Casey is scared, is there no way she can do something about the idea that she is sitting there falsely accused? Does our legal system have a way she can do something about this? I would hate to think that I could be accused of doing something(as terrible as murder)and be put in jail for years before my trial and I have no way of telling my side of things until my trial.

Why would LE and the state not look at RK? As far as JG goes, we know from the docs that he was investigated and cleared. Is this true for RK? If the defense has evidence that RK is involved don't they have to share that evidence? If the SA is for justice wouldn't they want that evidence so they can get the real killer?

Who is playing games here? Is it the defense or the SA? I talk about "both ways" a lot but it is because I do not understand. Again, this is just from a lay person's perspective but I can only see two things going on here: either the SA has a innocent person in jail and is choosing to ignore all other suspects(as the Anthony family has claimed) or JB and his team are doing all they can to cast suspicion on innocent people(before the trial and in the media)so they can free their client and win their case.

Mr. Sheaffer has said it is the defense that is playing games, he says what the defense is doing is wrong. Is he a part of the game also? Why can't we know the truth? I understand that we can't know the truth about whether Casey killed her daughter, but why can't we know if JB is doing what is right or if he is not working within the law?

Are there laws about these types of things? Are there steps in place for this type of situation? In Casey's jailhouse conversation with her parents they, George especially tries to get her to talk to LE, says he can have it set up whenever she wants. In Casey's defense...she says:

CA: ...life's not fair, people aren't always gonna be nice and they're not going to look at things from other people's perspectives, and its sad, its unfortunate they're gonna judge people, they're gonna pass judgments about, about something they don't know, stuff that's being said is completely, completely fabricated and twisted and everything else and its ridiculous but you know what mom? Again that's gonna blow over I'm not gonna give the media anything when I get out of here, sucks for them because I have nothing to say. All I want is my kid back, to be back with my family is all I want, that's all I'm asking but I'm not going to ask any of them for it, 'cause they're not going to give that to me, they're not. I'll do whatever the hell I have to, to get my family back, back together and that's it that's all I wanna do.

In Casey's interview with LE(the one that is on video and where she is in the room with the officers)she states that LE had decided that she was guilty and that is why they are not or will not look at anyone else. Is that what is going on here? Is LE and the FBI corrupt?

George tries to get someone to listen to Casey but she feels that there is no way anyone will listen to her, again are there not steps in place where she could speak to authority that can sort this out? Does she not have rights?

George says to Casey in the jailhouse visit: Well, let me see if I can handle it in a different way, to get in to see you any sooner is that okay with you?
CA: Do what you have to do, I mean I'm obviously not going anywhere, just biding my time.

George goes on to tell Casey how she can expedite things and Casey asks, "how?". George says: "Go to the people right there, right with you and tell them you want to see your dad right now. A matter of hours sweetie, they really can" Casey says "Uh, yeah. I've tried that, negative. There is only so much I can do that comes from the outside. I've asked those questions."

From the perspective of being on Casey's side, I see a conspiracy just like she and her family are claiming. Why was/is Casey not being heard? How is an American citizen being allowed to be held in jail, while LE, the SA and the FBI frame her?

IIRC, George was on his way to visit Casey when he turned around. I have not studied that event in my sleuthing of this case and I only have the understanding that we do not know why George did not meet with Casey that day. Was this another ploy of the authorities to keep an innocent person in jail? What is even worse about the idea that Casey may be innocent is that means there is still a real killer of children on the loose. Isn't that important to the general public? Don't they have a duty to find the real killer of a little girl?

Now, I still feel the information shows that Casey is the killer of Caylee. No matter how hard I try to take the information in the direction that she is innocent, as a juror(that I am not)I would see her as guilty. BUT: all I am doing here is saying that for Casey to be innocent we are looking at a very corrupt legal system and a very corrupt or inept LE in Florida. The only way I see that Casey is innocent would be a corrupt system because they would be the only one's to have the power to do this, in fact they are the only one's because no matter how guilty I or anyone else in the public may think she is: we are not the one's who have arrested her and charged her. Nor do we have the power to do so.

Can't her parents do something about this? Can't anyone?

If Casey is innocent, and RK had something to do with Caylee's death, if anyone else had something to do with Caylee's death: what I still do not understand and what makes me feel she is guilty the most, is the story of the nanny. Even in the jailhouse interview this story is spoken of as if it is very true. The nanny took Caylee. Maybe the nanny is JG? Maybe the nanny is RK...

But, unless Casey is lying in this conversation she did not feel that "this person" the "nanny" had done anything to harm Caylee.

Cindy A. : Do you still think she's okay?
CA: I know in my heart mom, I know in my gut she's alright, I can feel it, everyday that gets stronger and I still know that she's comin' home. I can still feel that, that she's comin' home.
Cindy A. : You think she's gonna change her mind and let her, I mean, what can I say to her on the air, because I can get one person to let me say, what I need to say or what you want me to say to Zanny. What do you want me to tell her that's going to make her bring her back?
CA: spfff...tell her that we forgive her.

And, it seems that even though Casey says she is innocent, and going with the idea that she is...she is forgiving of the person who took her daughter. Of course, if she is/was innocent: at this point she did not know that the "nanny" had killed Caylee and maybe that is why she is willing to be forgiving?

Either Casey is guilty and the state has evidence we have not seen, or we have a very corrupt legal system in Florida. I wish the authorities wanted to clear this up.


:cow:

 

[LambChop]

I think her bizarre "blank" regarding Caylee, as well as her urgency in wanting only to talk to TL with no concern or urgency about Caylee at all (and not faking like she was concerned about Caylee either) is very interesting. Also the way in her interviews she seems to have even taken on a bit of Tony's accent at times. As well as her saying she'd spoken to Caylee that day (but what she describes actually sounds like that video, with Caylee and her book, like she's mixing up her memory of watching that video vs. talking to Caylee on the phone?), and her saying that the friend she confided in about Caylee being missing was Juliet Lewis (like the movie actress?). And her confusing past and current events such as a job that she had in 2006, walking all the way up to the door with LE before they confronted her with it and said this isn't true. Her continually telling LE things that would be found out to be false immediately, obviously not doing herself any service. Her changing stories about what happened and not seeming to realize this destroys her credibility, seeming to believe both stories equally and repeating them in an almost mechanical fashion. I think all of these things are very interesting and could be very significant. I hope the defense get to the bottom of it but I'm not so sure. Maybe Baez thinks she's guilty so hasn't pressed for information from her. What if he's wrong. Hope they had thorough medical/mental examination of her done. The one lawyer who left the case said she suffers from mental illness.

But she didn't fake the phone call, she just said it happened, obviously they found out immediately it wasn't true. The same with all the things she told them that were not true.

And isn't very telling that a bf of one month was so IMPORTANT to her that the first thing she tried to do when a phone was available to her after her arrest was to call home to get HIS number......but, her child who "was her whole life" according to KC, she never reported missing to LE, not in 31 days and had her mother not called, KC would have never called herself. The personality you have described is that of a sociopath. And, yes, they do know right from wrong they just don't care.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Chiquita- picture this scene- You have been in jail for over a year, for a crime you did not commit. LE asks you "Tell us what happened" and your response is "I will, next year!"
Does that sound believable?

Actually what she really said was " I'm not answering the question at all, but my Attorney will - next year".

 

[LambChop]

I know what you are trying to say. I had a mom that was one person to the outside world and the complete oposite when we were alone. This is a personality trait. I've seen it and lived with it.

You could hear KC's horrible attitude and disrespect on the phone to her parents after she was arrested. They sure didn't act like it was the first time she had spoken to them like that.

Street Angel, house Devil. There are millions of people who are like that. Another term is "Honeymoon" stage. People want others to see their best side. But many, many people can be very different people than what they want the public to see.

And you are so right about the A's. You can actually see them back down with her on the video. This is "standard operating procedures" with KC. Even Lee admits in his depo not to ask too many questions when it concerns the "Princess".

 

[BeanE]

You did notice in the LE original interviews how they all picked up on the peculiarity of the things she was saying and all wound up asking her at different times if she'd ever been under treatment for mental illness, ever been in the mental hospital, was on any meds for mental illness, etc.

No! I just went through the transcript of Melich's individual interview of her. Even converted the document to html so I could search it. No references whatever to any mental issues of any kind.

Now I'm listening to the audios of the intervews. Not done yet, but so far, not a single question.

Can you - or anyone - point me in the right direction? I really want to hear/read this because I never read it/heard of it at all.

TIA

ETA: Okay I just finished the Melich/Allen interview, and no references whatsoever to mental issues from Melich or Allen. Hmmmm... Let me try Appie Wells' interview.

Am I missing some interviews someplace?

ETA 2: Okay now I've listened to the Appling (Appie) Wells interview, and in this interview also, there are no references whatsoever to any mental issues. So that's three interviews: 1 individual with Melich, 1 with Melich and Allen, and 1 with Wells, none of which have any references I can find to anything whatever to do with mental stuff.

I need some help here.

Seagull, I need links to the information that supports your contention if it exists.

Or if anyone else knows of any LE interviews that have the information that was stated, I appreciate it if you would hit me over the head. TIA.

ETA 3: Just for the heck of it I'm going to listen to the Nick Savage interview on the day of the GJ indictment.

ETA 4: Wouldn't you know it. Finished up with the GJ day 'interview' (not sure if it's considered an interview) and nope - no reference whatsoever to anything having to do with mental health (or illness). Off to dig up the recording on GJ indictment day in/outside of the car.

ETA 5: And now I've struck out completely. Not a single interview with a single reference about mental issues, etc.

ETA 6: Finally! This was bugging me so much, that I went and dug up the audio of the interview with Melich alone, and finally was able to find one, brief question. Unfortunately, it wasnt Melich "picking up on the peculiarity of the things she was saying" and asking questions in response to that. This reference is simply one in a series of routine standard questions Melich was asking, e.g., did Caylee take any meds, did Caylee have any medical conditions, did Casey take drugs, then

Melich: Have you ever been, have you ever been committed for thoughts of suicide? Have you ever been at Lakeside, anything like that?

And that's it! This just isn't my day for finding things it seems.

July 16, 2008 - Detective Yuri Melich
Audio 1: http://www.wftv.com/video/17458685/index.html
Audio 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/17461496/index.html

Transcript: [ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/21988629/anthony-20casey-20no-201-0721"]anthony,%20casey%20no%201-0721@@AMEPARAM@@/docinfo/21988629?access_key=key-aqs7cs6zhjo84kx2wxb@@AMEPARAM@@21988629@@AMEPARAM@@key-aqs7cs6zhjo84kx2wxb[/ame]

So I'm still waiting, Seagull, most eagerly, for your links to all the names of all the LE who asked all these questions, plus all they questions you stated they asked! I must be blind or deaf or just plain stupid that I can't find a single thing you contend. After spending all these hours seeking info based on what you posted as fact, I'll sure be grateful to be able to read through all the sources you provide! TIA!

 

[Leila]

She can afford very expensive lawyers, something most of us can't do. There have been numerous reports that Baez has brokered deals with media, selling videos of Caylee for up to $200K. Her parents have certainly prospered, we don't know the cumulative total, but we do know they got $200K from CBS, a book deal in the works, $20K for the 48hrs interview ( on an instalment plan probably much more). Enough to ensure they don't seem in any rush to find jobs.

Just the fact that JB has fought tooth and nail to keep the source of the defense funding from being revealed, tells us that there was/is some lucrative deals being made. Early on it was rumored that an anonymous person was paying for Casey's defense.

 

[eaglemom]

Chiquita-

I really respect you trying to look at all sides. However, try looking at it from LE's perspective:

- young mother with missing 2 yo for 31 days that does not seem paniced at child's loss, has not reported her missing and is lying blatantly at every turn
- young mother cannot produce any communication/or living situation (past or present) for nanny that she says was last caretaker for 2 yo
- car in posession of young mother smells like death
- young mother released on bond and still does not release any information to help recover young 2 yo


I could go on and on as to how KC led LE to where they are now. They did not jump in without evidence.

I think every person (and their family) who has their freedom taken away feels like LE is against them and it is a conspiracy. The conspiracy is our judicial system. In most cases it works very well - in some cases it does not, but in MOST it does. KC had every opportunity to TELL THE TRUTH and made a choice not to do so.

As far as the defense and what they are doing 'throwing innocent people under the bus' - well they can do what they need to do to create doubt for their client. I live in CA, in my experience normally it is done in the courtroom but we don't have the sunshine laws where all the evidence is released like in FL. It appears the world is different in FL and a lot more happens in the media. I am not an attorney so this is MOO.

 

[BeanE]

And since mental illness has come up, let's take a look (again) at what Casey Anthony's former DP attorney, Terry Lenamon, has to say about that:

GRACE: Are you trying to say she`s insane?

LENAMON: Absolutely not insane. Insanity is not an issue in this case.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/08/ng.01.html

and this:

LENAMON: It was clearly not -- insanity was not the issue. Miss Anthony has never admitted to this. And she still maintains her innocence.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/14/ijvm.01.html

 

[ZsaZsa]

I get your point, but I don't think she's gotten rich off the case or had a profit motive that we know of so far.

I really can't blame the family, obviously they wanted to get Caylee's image out there, and tell their side of the story, I also can't blame them for answering all the defamation that was out there. And I wouldn't be surprised if when revenues came in from putting Caylee's image out there, that those revenues would be used for Casey's defense, or to pay the A's bills, or even to get out of Orlando for a few days like they did. Or that Casey might likewise accept media revenue in order to pay her defense (of course so far the official word is that the defense are not being paid, but I do want to know who is paying them if someone is. Especially if it's anyone other than Casey or the A's.)
But I don't think we can say Casey has prospered (as far as we know) . I don't see a profit motive on the part of the family, either. I don't think there's any comparison between whatever money came from doing those interviews and being without Caylee forever. JMO But I do get what you're saying!

OK, I'll go back to the topic of the defense mentioning RK now

Sorry but I see that as selling Caylee like any other commodity.
If someone were to hand me (at least) $200K in exchange for photos I would consider myself very prosperous. What a goldmine 'that child' has turned out to be. As far as I can see LA is the only one who hasn't profited.