2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

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I think that an open mind does not preclude a discriminating mind, which to me defines the reasonable. To accept the absurd may be described as due to "an open mind", but with all due respect, I think of it as a mind without determined boundaries. I don't think an open mind as implied, is remotely as valuable as a discriminating one- the former does not depend on logic or common sense but rather an acceptance of anything that is dished up as if it were equally valuable.

I used common sense and logic when I formulated my opinion on this motion. I have accepted anything and everything the media has dished up as if it were equally as valuable as the well thought out motions prepared by a defense team that has several highly accredited members whose cumulative knowledge about the intricate details of this case is far greater than mine. I do apologize for accepting the absurd ramblings of the money hungry media. Nevertheless, I will keep an open mind until I’ve heard from the prosecution as well as the defense, it will give me a grasp on the whole truth.
 
I used common sense and logic when I formulated my opinion on this motion. I have accepted anything and everything the media has dished up as if it were equally as valuable as the well thought out motions prepared by a defense team that has several highly accredited members whose cumulative knowledge about the intricate details of this case is far greater than mine. I do apologize for accepting the absurd ramblings of the money hungry media. Nevertheless, I will keep an open mind until I’ve heard from the prosecution as well as the defense, it will give me a grasp on the whole truth.

While I admire your even-handedness in weighing what both sides have to say about the facts, I think many of us do not want to see this turn into a situation where actual evidence is turned into hair-splitting and smoke and mirrors by hired forensic experts guns. While the money hungry media is certainly guilty of capitalizing on this case, the same could be said about the high-profile defense team who, if not well paid in currency certainly benefit from the protracted publicity. And, lest we forget, the family of the defendant appears to have exploited the situation to their economic benefit as well (not usually seen in defendant families).

Of course this defendant deserves a fair trial - but she is not some poor indigent thing (well, she was) who had to use a public defender. She and her attorney have managed to somehow afford a stellar and sophisticated team - and also have managed to raise the question as to how ethical is it to exploit a victim in order to pay for an accused's defense. I think it is the specific nature of this case and the opportunistic actions of the defendant, her family and certain members of her defense team in manipulating the money-hungry media that have helped to exaggerate the circus-like atmosphere surrounding the case have elicited a response completely separate of innocence or guilt.
 
I used common sense and logic when I formulated my opinion on this motion. I have accepted anything and everything the media has dished up as if it were equally as valuable as the well thought out motions prepared by a defense team that has several highly accredited members whose cumulative knowledge about the intricate details of this case is far greater than mine. I do apologize for accepting the absurd ramblings of the money hungry media. Nevertheless, I will keep an open mind until I’ve heard from the prosecution as well as the defense, it will give me a grasp on the whole truth.

OK, I am willing to listen. How does an open, discriminating mind reconcile RK being a suspect with KC's insistence on a ZFG? What connection, other than finding the body, can Kronk be shown to have with Caylee? Why would Kronk have called police to the scene and gone there to meet them if he were involved? He could have called in an anonymous tip, then let LE handle it.

Is every piece of physical evidence (trunk decomp, papertowels, items from home, maggots in trash bag, coffin flies, etc.) that points to KC either a horrible coincidence or just junk science?

Did RK contact DC and tell him where to search? Why wouldn't DC state that? If George really did see KC & Caylee leave that afternoon (and he has no reason to lie if KC is innocent), how and where did Kronk obtain her? Was KC searching for Kronk at Blockbuster that night? Was Kronk known to frequent Fusian, leading KC to search there?

For a predator who was a stranger, the only reason for bagging the remains would be to avoid detection. Why then would that same predator lead police to those remains, knowing that otherwise he has no connection and would never be suspected?

I am all for keeping an open mind, but I cannot be so eager to find ABC (Anyone But Casey) that I suspend all my common sense in the process.

In the sake of justice, I sincerely hope Kronk has documentation proving he was reading meters on the other side of town all day, so the defense will have to float a new patsy.
 
While I admire your even-handedness in weighing what both sides have to say about the facts, I think many of us do not want to see this turn into a situation where actual evidence is turned into hair-splitting and smoke and mirrors by hired forensic experts guns. While the money hungry media is certainly guilty of capitalizing on this case, the same could be said about the high-profile defense team who, if not well paid in currency certainly benefit from the protracted publicity. And, lest we forget, the family of the defendant appears to have exploited the situation to their economic benefit as well (not usually seen in defendant families).

Of course this defendant deserves a fair trial - but she is not some poor indigent thing (well, she was) who had to use a public defender. She and her attorney have managed to somehow afford a stellar and sophisticated team - and also have managed to raise the question as to how ethical is it to exploit a victim in order to pay for an accused's defense. I think it is the specific nature of this case and the opportunistic actions of the defendant, her family and certain members of her defense team in manipulating the money-hungry media that have helped to exaggerate the circus-like atmosphere surrounding the case and are have elicited a response completely separate of innocence or guilt.

I pretty much agree with you on all counts. As for the trial, I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more motions, maybe not like this one, but AL did promise (threaten?) a lot of motions, and I believe the bulk of this case will be the forensic evidence, even though many of us do not want that to happen.
 
After just having listened to the two ex-wives interviews, I found both of them to be credible. They portray an image of Kronk that is not favorable.
If I had been treated by him like they say they were, I'd tell the truth about it too if asked.

That said, I have no idea if he could have had anything to do with Caylee's death but do find it interesting that he's a guy with these skeletons in his closet.
Just posting my thoughts as I'm having them. Since the day he came forward, I've smelled a rat about him but not to the point that I thought he was responsible for Caylee's death. I've always felt he was after the reward money but didn't know who could have tipped him off (but I heard a girl friend worked in the jail so that seemed like a possibility).
 
I pretty much agree with you on all counts. As for the trial, I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more motions, maybe not like this one, but AL did promise (threaten?) a lot of motions, and I believe the bulk of this case will be the forensic evidence, even though many of us do not want that to happen.

I agree, but I think that FL juries will not have the stamina or the patience to sit through interminable molecule-splitting of the forensics like CA juries have done. I think that people are getting tired of the "CSI Effect" unless it is used in situations where the actions of the defendant are not so glaringly off or where it's really necessary to parse through and interpret the evidence to make it exculpatory. Regardless of the forensics, all of the behavior and actions (or lack thereof) of the defendant before the remains were found are what will make the biggest impression on that jury, imo.
 
After just having listened to the two ex-wives interviews, I found both of them to be credible. They portray an image of Kronk that is not favorable.
If I had been treated by him like they say they were, I'd tell the truth about it too if asked.

That said, I have no idea if he could have had anything to do with Caylee's death but do find it interesting that he's a guy with these skeletons in his closet.
Just posting my thoughts as I'm having them. Since the day he came forward, I've smelled a rat about him but not to the point that I thought he was responsible for Caylee's death. I've always felt he was after the reward money but didn't know who could have tipped him off (but I heard a girl friend worked in the jail so that seemed like a possibility).

For our legal minds here, if a jail employee had tipped off Kronk, could that conceivably create a situation in which the discovery of the body would be thrown out?
 
For our legal minds here, if a jail employee had tipped off Kronk, could that conceivably create a situation in which the discovery of the body would be thrown out?

I don't know about that (and I know you weren't asking me) but at least the body was found. It was important to find the body to know that Caylee was indeed dead (even though that was most peeps conclusion due to the undeniable odor in the Pontiac and the 31 days). At least it put CA and Co. out of the find an alive Caylee mode (sort of).

The thing that would be intriguing is if KC happens to have a connection to Kronk in some way unknown to us yet. That could alter perceptions regarding his involvement - how and why.
 
OK, I am willing to listen. How does an open, discriminating mind reconcile RK being a suspect with KC's insistence on a ZFG? What connection, other than finding the body, can Kronk be shown to have with Caylee? Why would Kronk have called police to the scene and gone there to meet them if he were involved? He could have called in an anonymous tip, then let LE handle it.

Is every piece of physical evidence (trunk decomp, papertowels, items from home, maggots in trash bag, coffin flies, etc.) that points to KC either a horrible coincidence or just junk science?

Did RK contact DC and tell him where to search? Why wouldn't DC state that? If George really did see KC & Caylee leave that afternoon (and he has no reason to lie if KC is innocent), how and where did Kronk obtain her? Was KC searching for Kronk at Blockbuster that night? Was Kronk known to frequent Fusian, leading KC to search there?

For a predator who was a stranger, the only reason for bagging the remains would be to avoid detection. Why then would that same predator lead police to those remains, knowing that otherwise he has no connection and would never be suspected?

I am all for keeping an open mind, but I cannot be so eager to find ABC (Anyone But Casey) that I suspend all my common sense in the process.

In the sake of justice, I sincerely hope Kronk has documentation proving he was reading meters on the other side of town all day, so the defense will have to float a new patsy.

My apologies for my earlier sarcasm. I do not accept the media’s ramblings as fact.
I can accept this motion as reasonable because I have read the forensic report, the entomology report, all the police interviews and statements regarding RK, both of the large doc dumps, etc. RK made numerous contradictory statements in the various interviews and statements. I have had him pegged as a person of interest from the moment I read the first interview with him by the police. I suspected that they had done a thorough background check on him. After reading all his interviews, I was convinced he was being untruthful about something. His story changed to much. The biggest reason I have for suspecting him of something unsavory is that when he finally got officer Cain to the area where he was 99.999% certain he could see a human skull, and the officer said he didn’t see anything, at that moment in time, RK did not go the 10 feet to the skull and pick it up and say RIGHT HERE OFFICER RIGHT HERE!!! Had RK done that at that moment, I would not doubt a word he said. His excuse that he did not do that was that he got upset with the officer, and then he waited four months before he cooled off and went back to the area and discovered the body. To me, that whole scenario reeks of suspicion. So, I find the motion reasonable.
As for the circumstantial evidence against Casey, I realize there is a lot of it, and I realize that the forensic experts say that the prosecutions theories are likely to be correct. However, I have read those reports very, very closely. I am a layman, and yet I can see that the conclusions of these reports that say the prosecutions theories are likely, could just as easily conclude that theories presented by the defense could be just as likely.
I do believe some of the forensic evidence has been compromised, and that makes me wonder how much of the forensic evidence has been compromised. Since I believe some of the forensic evidence has been compromised, I cannot be sure that the one hair in the trunk with the alleged decomp ring on it, the smell of the trunk, the chloroform in the trunk, the duct tape found on the remains that was dissimilar to the duct tape found on the gas can, the alleged adipocere on the napkin, the one leg from the fly, the alleged decomp stain in the trunk, and the air sample will even be introduced as evidence. Since I believe that these 8 items may not be introduced into evidence, I am left with the unexplained 31 days. The defense says Casey has a compelling reason for the 31 days, but it won’t come out until trial. So, since I believe the majority of the prosecutions circumstantial case is built on maybes, as in maybe it was a decomposing hair but it couldn’t be determined without more hairs similar to compare it to, and maybe the duct tape is dissimilar, but the henkel brand matches, I think that the defenses motion that there is as much circumstantial evidence against RK as there is against KC, may be reasonable after all. I won’t go through the motion but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence in it that points to RK. This all of course my opinion and based on my interpretations of the evidence we know of. I realize many may disagree with me, and that’s fine, but I am entitled to my opinion and I have thought about all this long and hard. I still believe there is a very strong possibility that KC is guilty, but that will have to be proven in court, because out here in the world of public opinion, it looks to me that the states case gets weaker with each new doc dump.
 
I used common sense and logic when I formulated my opinion on this motion. I have accepted anything and everything the media has dished up as if it were equally as valuable as the well thought out motions prepared by a defense team that has several highly accredited members whose cumulative knowledge about the intricate details of this case is far greater than mine. I do apologize for accepting the absurd ramblings of the money hungry media. Nevertheless, I will keep an open mind until I’ve heard from the prosecution as well as the defense, it will give me a grasp on the whole truth.
Not sure why you're making a comparison between the defense and the media. I know in my case I looked at all the docs and then tried to make an informed decision as to what has happened. The media just published the docs. How they interpret them is their business. They don't represent the State. Neither does my representation of what I believe happened represent the State's view.
 
I pretty much agree with you on all counts. As for the trial, I'm afraid we are going to see a lot more motions, maybe not like this one, but AL did promise (threaten?) a lot of motions, and I believe the bulk of this case will be the forensic evidence, even though many of us do not want that to happen.
I'm thinking if she stalls this long enough with motions I may not be around for the trial. Maybe the defense is hoping the next generation won't remember?
 
Not sure why you're making a comparison between the defense and the media. I know in my case I looked at all the docs and then tried to make an informed decision as to what has happened. The media just published the docs. How they interpret them is their business. They don't represent the State. Neither does my representation of what I believe happened represent the State's view.

The cable shows bore me because they are slow.
I rarely read the articles that accompany the doc dumps.
I originally came to WS to locate the official docs from this very case, and it's obvious why I stuck around this site :)
Anyting formulative going on in my brain has been based on the docs and the sensible opinions and verified document links in this forum.

From the docs I have read and audio interviews that I've fallen asleep to many nights, is where I came to jive with the state.
 
I'm thinking if she stalls this long enough with motions I may not be around for the trial. Maybe the defense is hoping the next generation won't remember?

Good luck with that, my 12 year old is apprised of the case. Maybe she should attend college in Florida, hmmmmmm.....
 
snip

The biggest reason I have for suspecting him of something unsavory is that when he finally got officer Cain to the area where he was 99.999% certain he could see a human skull, and the officer said he didn’t see anything, at that moment in time, RK did not go the 10 feet to the skull and pick it up and say RIGHT HERE OFFICER RIGHT HERE!!! Had RK done that at that moment, I would not doubt a word he said.

The funny about that to me, TDA, is that if, after Cain told Kronk he had looked at the item of Kronk's and it was nothing, Kronk had pulled Cain in there, picked up Caylee's skull, and said RIGHT HERE OFFICER RIGHT HERE!!!, well, then people now would be saying Kronk should be a suspect because he could only have done if he knew Caylee's body was there, and that he could only have known if he was indeed Caylee's murder.

And that is how I know that Kronk is an innocent man - because he just wasn't sure that what he'd seen was indeed a skull. He did at that moment what any innocent person would do in reaction to the utter horror of finding the skull of a murdered baby - he didn't - he couldn't - believe his own eyes.
 
The funny about that to me, TDA, is that if, after Cain told Kronk he had looked at the item of Kronk's and it was nothing, Kronk had pulled Cain in there, picked up Caylee's skull, and said RIGHT HERE OFFICER RIGHT HERE!!!, well, then people now would be saying Kronk should be a suspect because he could only have done if he knew Caylee's body was there, and that he could only have known if he was indeed Caylee's murder.

And that is how I know that Kronk is an innocent man - because he just wasn't sure that what he'd seen was indeed a skull. He did at that moment what any innocent person would do in reaction to the utter horror of finding the skull of a murdered baby - he didn't - he couldn't - believe his own eyes.
I'm not even 100% sure what he first saw was a skull. When I think of a white object shaped like a skull...my mind sees what an ordinary skull looks like. I don't picture hair falling from the top (what did he say in his police interview...like a bald guy with hair in the back?). I think he was truly surprised to find Caylee.
 
There's no way that Kronk's bio son, who is Brandon S., is the same Brandon S. who KC was upset about at the No Clothes party in May 2008 (she said she was pregnant again with his child).

Dante testified that Brandon S. was in town on July 1 and that he came down from NC and that he is in the Military.

I caught from Brandon S.'s mother that he is a military guy as well.

Could this be the same Brandon S.? I just remembered the name of the Brandon from the party and it is different but add this to the coincidence list. I guess Kronk's son changed his last name - interesting.
 
There's no way that Kronk's bio son, who is Brandon S., is the same Brandon S. who KC was upset about at the No Clothes party in May 2008 (she said she was pregnant again with his child).

Dante testified that Brandon S. was in town on July 1 and that he came down from NC and that he is in the Military.

I caught from Brandon S.'s mother that he is a military guy as well.

Could this be the same Brandon S.? I just remembered the name of the Brandon from the party and it is different but add this to the coincidence list. I guess Kronk's son changed his last name - interesting.

I don't even know what to write, contemplating this to be the case...
 
In my opinion, the arguments brought up by the defense in this motion are reasonable. If JS dismisses this motion, I think the defense will use the dismissal later as one of the grounds for appeal, should Casey be convicted. So which is it thedeviledadvocate? The motion will be used to appeal the conviction or per the bolded statement below, JS will dismiss this motion?

This motion brings into question whether or not LE has used tunnel vision in this case. Once Casey became their main suspect perhaps LE was not quite as zealous in investigating other possible suspects. Had LE paid closer attention to the red flags in the statements made by RK, they would have uncovered the findings in this motion. Perhaps they did investigate but had not yet released the results to the defense. If JS allows these findings to be used at trial, it could hurt the states case. IMO he will most likely dismiss this motion.

The unofficial survey at WESH tv has nearly 3,000 responses. 89% say RK should not be considered a suspect. I am one of the 11% who say RK should be a suspect.But I thought you like to keep an open mind? I consider the circumstances with RK finding the remains to be odd. IMO this motion only bolsters the oddity of those circumstances.

For over a year we have heard the media’s interpretation of the evidence we know of. Aside from a couple little peeps from the defense about junk science, we have heard precious little from the defense about evidence.

The media has indicated this trial will be a battle of the forensic experts. My interpretations of the docs we have available leads me to believe the prosecutions theory is likely. However, since we have not yet heard a cross-examination from the defense (and won’t until trial), I am curious to find out if the defense will present a theory that is also likely.

The media is powerful, but not necessarily just. Michael Jackson was portrayed by the media as a hero, then as a zero, then back to a hero again. The media is fickle. If for monetary purposes the media thought they could make more money by taking Casey’s side now, IMO they would do it in a heartbeat.I bet Kathy Belich would HIGHLY DISAGREE!

It may well be my imagination, but it feels to me there is a slight change afoot. This motion is only the beginning for the defense, a molehill in the mountain of rebuttal I expect to surface from them.

I like to keep an open mind until I’ve heard both sides of the story, it gives me a better grasp on the whole truth. In my opinion, this motion is only the beginning of the defenses side of the story.

BBM

Also regarding "a few little peeps about junk science" and no evidence from the defense....exactly what evidence do you think they have? Obviously nothing worthwhile hence all the nonsensical motions.
 
I checked:
Sparks - Kronk's son
Snow - KC's friend

Yes, I wrote above that I realized the last names are different. Figure the odds though that these two military Brandons both being S's. Kronk's son's name should be Kronk. Since he hadn't seen him in 10 years, maybe he had a stepfather whose name he took. I still find it a strange coinky dink - just one of many.
 
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