2010.02.09 New motion filed by defense TES search records

  • #301
In the check fraud hearing, when discussing court costs and fees due by KC......Andrea Lyon said...."well we can just have her declared indigent". There is a reason thay have not done so...... IMO I believe that it may be due to the fact that a portion of her defense thus far has been paid for out of fees earned in the sale of photos.

I am not sure what the requirements are for qualifying as indigent, but given the fact that JB fought so hard to keep the terms of "KC's Defense Funding" confidential, they may be stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they declare her idigent, those records will become public.......

I do not have any knowledge of this as fact, but it is certainly a plausible explanation...This is MOO with a complimentary contribution of an explanation and supporting statements that helped me arrive at that opinion.

Just a little FYI about this "indigent status" as a refresher...

When KC was originally arrested in July 2008 for the child neglect and false report charges , she applied for, and was granted, "indigent status" and was appointed a public defender........briefly, until JoseBGood came along...

When the charges for the check fraud were made in late August 2008, (SEPARATE CASE #), KC did NOT file for indigent status in THAT case as JB was now her attorney.

In October, the child neglect and false report case was closed and new charges of Murder, etc were brought against her (SEPARATE CASE #), and again, she has not filed for indigent status in THIS case.

I don't believe the "indigent status" filing from the first arrest carries over to the new cases (all have separate case #), so she would have to apply again in this current case...

What I am interested in knowing is whether it is possible to file and ask for public defender right in the middle of a case...don't believe I have ever seen a case where that has happened (and I just a layperson)....

But IF that could happen, and DOES happen....we are probably looking at a trial date of 2015!!
 
  • #302
Sounds like malpractice to me. Baez isn't taking depositions, therefore he's not doing his job defending KC, and his reason is no money? In that case, he has an ethical obligation to declare her indigent and have an attorney assigned to her case. Her defense shouldn't have taken her case pro-bono if they can't afford to represent her properly! JMO


I will have to dig it out, but somewhere in this Caylee forum (couple of months ago), I posted a link to an Appeal case in Florida for Ineffective Counsel that RH posted on his blog as an interesting relation to this case.

From memory, in that case, the convicted defendant was appealing based on many allegations of Ineffective Counsel, one of which was the defense attorneys lack of deposing witnesses in the case (as well as lack of hiring expert witnesses).

Again from memory, the appeal court stated in the documents that it WOULD be "ineffective counsel" and a conflict of interest IF the defense attorney made the decision to forego depositions due to financial issues (implying defense attorney not spending retainer money on experts, etc for own personal financial interests)...BUT.....in this case, defense attorney claimed the lack of depositions and expert witnesses hired was a "defense strategy" as opposed to a "financial issue", so the appeal case was DENIED...

I will try to dig that link up in this forum but is very interesting reading when considering this case and possible future appeal issues for KC in regards to "ineffective counsel"!
 
  • #303
Hi there, I think the post you are looking for is in the Q and A thread for our lawyers. The State's Attorney office seem to have that very thought that this is classic ineffective counsel that no one is being deposed, etc . as you explain. I believe that is why they asked the judge to get involved and make a schedule, so this run away train can get put back on track. I am sooo glad they did. By the way, has the defense filed theirs yet? Noooooooooo.View attachment Florida-Criminal-Pleadings.pdf


I am looking forward to the defense witness list to see what experts are actually on the case still.
Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion – and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don’t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this “pro bono” the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case – books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides’ expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora’s Financial Box for Mr. Baez."

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2009/...time/#comments
 
  • #304
I am just looking for a number. Perhaps one of the Lawyers could weigh in. What do you think he is charging?

Who is charging? NeJame?

Where is the document supporting your claim that NeJame is charging? I request to see it.

WHY are you trying to lead us down this path? The Judge ruled in the Defenses favor..the ball is in their court..the records are waiting to be viewed.
 
  • #305
RR0004, it's not you at all! :blowkiss: It's just that no matter how many times nor how many ways the truth is stated, some just don't seem to "get it.".....and I hate how that gets us all off course. It's like diversion tactics.

Think of it as an exercise and an opportunity to express our opinions as the general public. Whether we like it or not this is what defense is up to and bringing up these matters, we are able to sort them out ourselves. If defense does check on certain blogs/websites they can judge how they will do with a potential jury. There is no doubt we have some sharp sleuthers here who bring important information to our attention. People can make a difference by voicing their opinions and getting the correct information out there. All views are welcomed here. The less popular views have a chance to make their point. So far, though, I feel defense is in real trouble and that is just from what I read here. Free speech is priceless, but you better be prepared to put you money where your mouth is. JMO
 
  • #306
Who is charging? NeJame?

Where is the document supporting your claim that NeJame is charging? I request to see it.

WHY are you trying to lead us down this path? The Judge ruled in the Defenses favor..the ball is in their court..the records are waiting to be viewed.

I believe it is in the Judge's order that defense has to pay expenses/costs up front. I would think that would be for a paralegal or security officer to sit with defense while they review the records. My guess would be paralegal because they could answer questions from defense. So I'm guessing they would the law firm would charge their hourly rate for the para. Someone has to pay for this person's time because they are being removed from their regular job at MN's firm. Same with a deposition. Defense has to pay for their depositions and it can be quite expensive. JMO
 
  • #307
Nine pages ago, I posted this post, and I am bumping it again cuz of the said last nine pages. :)

And I responded with a :other_beatingA_Dead :D
 
  • #308
  • #309
Just a little FYI about this "indigent status" as a refresher...

When KC was originally arrested in July 2008 for the child neglect and false report charges , she applied for, and was granted, "indigent status" and was appointed a public defender........briefly, until JoseBGood came along...

When the charges for the check fraud were made in late August 2008, (SEPARATE CASE #), KC did NOT file for indigent status in THAT case as JB was now her attorney.

In October, the child neglect and false report case was closed and new charges of Murder, etc were brought against her (SEPARATE CASE #), and again, she has not filed for indigent status in THIS case.

I don't believe the "indigent status" filing from the first arrest carries over to the new cases (all have separate case #), so she would have to apply again in this current case...

What I am interested in knowing is whether it is possible to file and ask for public defender right in the middle of a case...don't believe I have ever seen a case where that has happened (and I just a layperson)....

But IF that could happen, and DOES happen....we are probably looking at a trial date of 2015!!

Question -- if she were declared indigent, could the present attorneys remain on the case and be paid whatever the State would pay a public defender?
 
  • #310
Given the application for indigent status.......there is no way KC can fill that out if she has received any money from sale of photos, videos, etc...... I don't know that to be the case, but it is a can of worms the defense doesn't want opened if they can avoid it. IMO.....




An aside.....
I think I am going to franchise a "Beat a Dead Horse for a buck" business. I'll open in shopping centers nationwide.
 
  • #311
RR0004, it's not you at all! :blowkiss: It's just that no matter how many times nor how many ways the truth is stated, some just don't seem to "get it.".....and I hate how that gets us all off course. It's like diversion tactics.

Think Troll....
 
  • #312
I am not buying this. Pardon the pun. I see the Judge did indeed order the defense to pay for these expenses. How was the prosecutions expense paid?
I noted that Ldb tried to get the Judge to order the defense to pay for the prosecutions airplane tickets for the deposition of Jk. This is all new to me. I have never heard of such things. Can the Judge actually order Kc to pay for things up front when he knows she has no money? Obviously he can. He just did in that order. So we will execute Kc based on whats in her wallet rather than on the evidence. Well thats easy. We know the State has more money than the defense, so case closed.

What about these very important documents that Tes has that relates to the case? Like JJ's tes forms that he filled out about the crime scene as he states in his sworn document? Hey if the defense can't afford it, then the state needs to pay for it. Kc has a right to a fair trial. Thats my opinion.

Well lets just sit down and look at this. Who are Casey's attorneys? We have JB local attorney from Orlando area. Not really well known before this case, but also privately retained and not appointed. We have LKB who is a very high profile attorney and represents people like Phil Spector. I would imagine her normal fee is relatively high. Then we have AL who is a very high profile DP attorney. I would also imagine that her fee's would also cost a pretty penny.

Casey does not have a public defender. So right off the bat Casey is getting a defense that most normal people could never hope to afford. Now lets toss in all the celebrity high profile defense experts. Once again things that a normal defendant wouldn't have access too.

Also Casey has had thousands of dollars filtered into her jail account since she was placed there. We won't even get into the tv appearances and the jet setting by the defense lawyers in this case (like JB on Geraldo's yatch for example).

Also has Casey submitted the paper work for claiming her indigence? None has been submitted that I recall.

So to me your argument about the defense not being able to pay and everyone else having to cater to Casey would be more valid if Casey had a public defender and was declared indigent. It's very hard to make that argument when you have a defense that would only bee seen by high profile sports stars and celebrities.

Casey will not be executed because she can not pay for her defense. She will be executed because a group of 12 of Casey's peers found her guilty of killing her 2 year old child which was dumped on the side of the road like discarded trash.

As for JJ that has also already been discussed. He was on this very site stating that he was conducting searches on his own, and was also volunteering with TES. If he was not at the site or with in 200 yards of the site under the supervision of TES then TES was not required to give the defense his file with the other 32. TES is not responsible for JJ's searches on his own. So if the defense wants JJ's file then they can pay up front for it and go to Nejame's office, then submit it to the Judge for review.

This would be in accordance with the court order in place. You may not like the order and the defense may not like the order, but until it's changed it needs to be followed. This motion is not an argument about the original order by the way....I can see that question coming next. This motion is a rehash of the first and is adding in that the media got to see the files. It is not arguing the Judges first ruling on this matter.

HTH
 
  • #313
Given the application for indigent status.......there is no way KC can fill that out if she has received any money from sale of photos, videos, etc...... I don't know that to be the case, but it is a can of worms the defense doesn't want opened if they can avoid it. IMO.....




An aside.....
I think I am going to franchise a "Beat a Dead Horse for a buck" business. I'll open in shopping centers nationwide.

Don't forget a website!
 
  • #314
  • #315
I suspect that the concept of this "dream team" was the brainchild of Glenn Selig....JB's first spokesperson. Take a look at what he does and his philosophy. Remember he is the PR rep for Drew Peterson and Rod Blagojevich ( who by the way is represented by AL).....see a connection here. This was planned from day 1. JB didn't assemble these folks..... Glenn Selig specializes in optimizing media exposure for attorneys.



http://www.thepublicityagency.com/
 
  • #316
I believe it is in the Judge's order that defense has to pay expenses/costs up front. I would think that would be for a paralegal or security officer to sit with defense while they review the records. My guess would be paralegal because they could answer questions from defense. So I'm guessing they would the law firm would charge their hourly rate for the para. Someone has to pay for this person's time because they are being removed from their regular job at MN's firm. Same with a deposition. Defense has to pay for their depositions and it can be quite expensive. JMO

Yes, I understand that
.
I see this thread being led down another path. That it is someone else's fault that the Defense has not gone to view the records because 1) Baez goes and they are not there and then 2) NeJames is charging $300/ hour for Order ruled on by Judge S that a Representative be present..that Casey does not have the money and that the State should pay....etc....it's in previous posts made in this thread

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20582267/detail.html

The ruling had 3 areas of payment to be made by the Defense for 3 things....

1) the Depo-, All expenses relating to the Depo are to be paid by Casey in advance
2)The Records- Casey is responsible to bear all costs necessary as to enable her Counsel to fully review all TES docs, paid in advance
3)The Defense will pay a Representative a Minimal and Reasonable expense to follow the order by the court to have a Representative monitor the inspection at all times...IF a dispute arises due as to the reasonableness of cost then the issue shall be resolved in Court prior to the inspection... The Defense has not raised an issue due to cost....
 
  • #317
I am just looking for a number. Perhaps one of the Lawyers could weigh in. What do you think he is charging?

You really should read the ruling as it will answer many of your questions. Specifically paragraph 6 as it talks about disputes of the reasonableness of the cost.

Do you require another link to the ruling for review? I can bring it forward from a couple pages back if that helps.
 
  • #318
What do you suppose Mn is charging to have a person watch over? 300.00 an hour?

You really should read the ruling as it will answer many of your questions. Specifically paragraph 6 as it talks about disputes of the reasonableness of the cost.

Do you require another link to the ruling for review? I can bring it forward from a couple pages back if that helps.



http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20582267/detail.html

No need to discuss the issue of cost since the Judge allows for a resolution in case of a dispute arising due to reasonable cost....

The Defense has not raised an issue of cost in this matter...
 
  • #319
[/B]

Well, I have tried to point this out in the past. The defense wants everyone to think they are stupid and they want everyone to look at other things than Kc. The defense knows that sooner or later they will get all pertinent information out of Tes. Tes is not above justice. Strategy. IMO

I'm not going to get into a name calling session or anything of that nature. What I am going to look at is what the defense has done and the work product they have submitted.

Many of the motions filed by the defense have been flawed in accordance with Florida laws. The defense has also failed on different occasions to follow court orders. JB has been politely called out in court by the Judge on a few occasions. The defense has not completed many parts of their investigation. The defense has also failed to pay the clerk of courts office for records during this case as well. To me this shows a lack of experience, effort, and understanding on part of the defense.

JB is inexperienced. Thats not name calling that's truth. JB does not have much trial experience especially a trial of this magnitude.

AL and LKB may not have a complete understanding of Florida law. I believe many of the motions show good examples of this. These motions have been discussed and the flaws pointed out if anyone would like to go back to look for reference.

The defense has also shown a lack of effort by not paying for items they received, not completing depo's, not completing their review of the evidence, not going in to look at the crime scene after it was released to them, not paying Nejame and going to his office to review these files, not submitting evidence to back statements made by Todd M, not swearing in RK's ex's, and the list could go on.

Based on the work produced by this defense many have questioned if Casey could appeal on the grounds of ineffective counsel. In fact I believe that was a major reason JS wanted Casey out all hearings. I also recall JS asking Casey if she was pleased with her counsel.

To me this defense has not shown it's effectiveness but there are two key points that are keeping that from being a valid appeal. One: the high profile attorneys involved, and Two: Casey's willingness to stick with them.

So I'm not going to say they are stupid but clearly they are lacking in experience, knowledge, and effort based on their work thus far in the case. This motion is just another example of that because this issue has already been ruled on, and instead of arguing against that ruling they are rehashing the first motion with the addition of the press was allowed to see the files. It should be noted they were not copied in anyway.
 
  • #320

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