2010.04.11 ~ Tommy and Gramma Hollars phone call

[epiphany]

Nice catch. It was GGMH who put the words in his mouth and I think you are correct. I'll have to listen again but I think he goes out of his way not to say JO's name.

True, true...but then Granny gives Tommy a beautiful out re his own involvement (R told you to help M clean-up the MH) with R as the individual who disposes of H's body - and ToC clearly refuses it.

 

[wasalurker]

I have to go research unless someone can tell me off the top of their heads....what is JO's mom's first name again? Is it Tina? Trina? something like that??

Reason I'm asking is listening to this tape when Grandma says she won't even tell Lisa she states it's because Lisa would go running to (I think she says Tina) first thing.....now if that's JO's mom we have even more of a connection that TC is talking about JO in this tape.

 

[Forensic fan]

The thing that jumped out at me in the video of Joe, as he sat beside his lawyer, was what he said as he burst into tears.

I've lost so much family (paraphrased)

Something about it made me think he was innocent and thought he was loved, or at least liked, by his family until this. Like he couldn't believe they would set him up like that. I dunno. Of all the things to say ...

I don't know, I just didn't get the feeling he was telling the truth and it didn't grab my heart like I thought it would, I just watched it for the first time. (And I am a big softy, usually I fall for stuff I shouldn't, but I don't believe him.) JMO

 

[Bipolar Express]

True, true...but then Granny gives Tommy a beautiful out re his own involvement (R told you to help M clean-up the MH) with R as the individual who disposes of H's body - and ToC clearly refuses it.

Great point. It would (I think) look a lot better for him to have been involved in "clean up" than to have dumped the body. And I think it may be safe to say that he probably helped with the body if in fact, he is the one that led law enforcement to the river. So, to me, that says he is being truthful, and not taking the easier way out. Oh heck...I dont know.

 

[epiphany]

GMF offers ToC the simplest story - accidental OD>R asks you to help M clean-up the MH>while R disposes of the body, but ToC would rather stick to some JO horror story. Guess ToC is waiting for the evidence to come in before we'll learn why.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

JMOO but I don't believe he is talking about RC at all - cause while he is saying this he is also telling Grandma not to tell anyone - not to tell him - let them get "him" - and her reply is that "nobody in Nashville will know anything - she won't tell nobody in Nashville"....

Grandma kept her word, she didn't tell anyone in Nashville. She told PCSO in Palatka, GGS in Welaka, and NG whose show is beamed to the entire nation. But Grandma Flo didn't tell anyone in Nashville. Seems to me, he wanted her to blab.

 

[suspicious1]

GMF offers ToC the simplest story - accidental OD>R asks you to help M clean-up the MH>while R disposes of the body, but ToC would rather stick to some JO horror story. Guess ToC is waiting for the evidence to come in before we'll learn why.

I don't know about him sticking to the Jo story...I mean, Tommy never mentions JO name but yet all he did was agree or disagree with what GMH was saying. So Tommy really didn't tell us anything, KWIM?

Tommy was too careful not to mention JO's name BUT he was too quick to respond to GMH about JO.

JMO though

 

[aoibhinn]

True, true...but then Granny gives Tommy a beautiful out re his own involvement (R told you to help M clean-up the MH) with R as the individual who disposes of H's body - and ToC clearly refuses it.

Yes. But we have to remember that we are privy to a tape that has been made for LE's (and our) ears. It's like watching a reality show as opposed to real life. It's scripted.

He's not going to come out and admit his involvement on the tape. Plus, by 'confessing' to GGMH, they avoid having to set up an official meet with the law. It's easier to initially spill to GGMH first. These tapes are made with an awareness. ToC not mentioning JO's name himself, directly, goes towards proving this point.

 

[badme102]

In that audio...does Tommy ever mention JO by name? I hear a lot of "he"s, but I don't recall him mentioning JO's name.

Nope, I don't believe he does, and to take this conversation a bit further...

Granny Flo is telling Tommy what she heard FIRST, which was the Ron coming home, calling Tommy for help, etc...Tommy cut her off several times by saying, "That's BS!"

I have no understanding as to why anyone believes that Tommy would not cover for Ron.
When you are involved in a crime with others, you tend to implicate people that are NOT involved first. When the time comes where you are being implicated in that crime, that is when the blame game begins. (with the real players involved-if evidence is there to implicate)

IF Tommy is involved, (say in helping clean up or disposing of Haleigh's body), OF COURSE he would cover for Misty and Ron. He would be covering for them in return for the same.

Mortal enemies have been known to cover for each other as to not implicate themselves in a crime they did together.

Its not rocket science, it's self preservation.

 

[epiphany]

JMO - GMa Hollars was used to get this story to Misty. The reason I say this is it is very common for those who tell fibs to say "tell them what I said" - it is suggestive especially when the other one could be in trouble as well. Just as suggestive as GMa Hollars throwing Joe's name out there. This is the story Tommy wants Misty to repeat and GMa Hollars as well as Lindsy and Timmy and Chelsea. Doesn't mean it is true, but they all repeated this story without knowing the truth at all. So in that respect, it worked.

Yes, ToC came across to me as wanting GMF to communicate this to Misty. ToC banks on Granny and crosses his fingers re Linds not believing that he nor M is capable of deep involvement.

GMF, on this tape, appears to have not come to grips or, at least, she does not let on to ToC (just like Linds assures ToC that she loves him and will not divorce him - LOL) that she would ever believe that he and M are as involved as they may be.

 

[aoibhinn]

Additionally, in more general terms, I would be very surprised also if their lawyers were not advising them on what to say/what not to say.

Eg: "Make sure you always mention that finding Haleigh is the most important thing."
"Don't be sounding like you feel too sorry for yourself."
"Try to come across in a certain way .. " etc.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't know if this has been posted but it was Tommy's lawyer that released the tape.

In another development in the case, the attorney for Misty's brother released a copy of Croslin Jr.’s April 11 phone call with his grandmother, Flora Hollars.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...father-negotiating-15-year-sentence-drug-case

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The lawyer also redacted the tape.

The recording, however, could not be examined in full. Werter said the copy was redacted to remove phone numbers and discussions unrelated to Haleigh's case.

 

[epiphany]

I don't know about him sticking to the Jo story...I mean, Tommy never mentions JO name but yet all he did was agree or disagree with what GMH was saying. So Tommy really didn't tell us anything, KWIM?

Tommy was too careful not to mention JO's name BUT he was too quick to respond to GMH about JO.

JMO though

I see your point, Suspicious. ToC's voice sounds fairly shaky to me on this tape. Even ToC, w/out speaking to his attorney yet re his LDT results (Do I have that right?), understands that he needs to shut up completely at this point - in the event that he needs a good defense. After all, he already placed himself at the MH.

 

[suspicious1]

I don't know if this has been posted but it was Tommy's lawyer that released the tape.

In another development in the case, the attorney for Misty's brother released a copy of Croslin Jr.’s April 11 phone call with his grandmother, Flora Hollars.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...father-negotiating-15-year-sentence-drug-case

Thank you for that Doc....

Snipped from the article above:

Shoemaker said the disappaearance of Haleigh, while not related to the trafficking case, made resolving the drug case more difficult.

"It's made it harder for all of us to have negotiations," he said

Isn't Shoemaker Ron's lawyer? Why would the disappearance of Haleigh make it hard on Ron to negotiate??? Is that what Shoemaker is saying? I don't understand that if Ron is completely innocent in the disappearance of his daughter. Someone please explain to me.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

The lawyer also redacted the tape.

The recording, however, could not be examined in full. Werter said the copy was redacted to remove phone numbers and discussions unrelated to Haleigh's case.

It doesn't say Werter redacted the tape, just that it was redacted. I think the lawyer got what we heard.

 

[epiphany]

I don't know if this has been posted but it was Tommy's lawyer that released the tape.

In another development in the case, the attorney for Misty's brother released a copy of Croslin Jr.’s April 11 phone call with his grandmother, Flora Hollars.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...father-negotiating-15-year-sentence-drug-case

OK. ToC's attorney releases this tape. So, ToC will insist it was JO if charges are filed against him in H's homicide?

Is this your take?

 

[Maryann123]

Something is wrong with this entire phone call. Why on earth would he call his grandmother to ask her to call his wife? Why didn't he just call Lindsy himself? Sounds like Lindsy and kids are no longer in Florida. Why did this happen? They had a free place to live. I will never believe Joe is involved with Haleigh, and I think if LE thought this was true, Joe would be in jail right now. Something is wrong.......I just don't know what it is!

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Thank you for that Doc....

Snipped from the article above:

Shoemaker said the disappaearance of Haleigh, while not related to the trafficking case, made resolving the drug case more difficult.

"It's made it harder for all of us to have negotiations," he said

Isn't Shoemaker Ron's lawyer? Why would the disappearance of Haleigh make it hard on Ron to negotiate??? Is that what Shoemaker is saying? I don't understand that if Ron is completely innocent in the disappearance of his daughter. Someone please explain to me.

It makes it difficult because the state wants answers on what happened to Haleigh, and they want to be told where to find her. RC and his attorney don't want to tell them. They just want to snitch on drug dealers and get a lesser sentence for RC. In other words, they want teflon man to slide right out of jail like he's done many times before with no consequences.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It doesn't say Werter redacted the tape, just that it was redacted. I think the lawyer got what we heard.

The recording, however, could not be examined in full. Werter said the copy was redacted to remove phone numbers and discussions unrelated to Haleigh's case. http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...father-negotiating-15-year-sentence-drug-case

I think the lawyer redacted it because we have heard phone numbers released in other tapes by LE and hours of information not related to Haleigh's case. I should have added this in my other post.