2010.05.11 - Casey Anthony Death Penalty Motions Hearing

[logicalgirl]

Hello WS



Cindy made Casey have the baby. Then she ignored Casey's pregnancy(and that is ignoring Caylee too, big time IMHO). Cindy even lied to her mother and father when point blank asked if Casey was pregnant. RP, tried telling Cindy exactly what I would have been saying, but Cindy attacked him. I find it difficult to reconcile caring one wit about money when your granddaughter is missing and then found murdered, yet evidence of Cindy and George's greed abound. Cruises were taken, adornments have been purchased and meals have been eaten all from money that came because Caylee was murdered.

Whatever Casey's fate, I feel it has already been sealed. We are just waiting to see what it is...

FWIW: Not AL, nor anyone could sway or convince me regarding the DP. It's not something anyone else could convince me of because it is a "personal" issue. Which is why I wouldn't try to sway anyone else to my thinking. I guess she has swayed some juries? I have not read the threads regarding AL or the DP and since we have reached that subject with this hearing, I will.

:cow:

Respect Chiquita71 post snipped for space.

While agree with you on many of the points in your post, I would argue that Casey did not have to keep her baby. Every single mother is given the option by the hospital/doctor/social worker of keeping their child or putting that child up for adoption. They do not need their parents permission to do so. Plus Casey was of age. Either way, Casey was the sole guardian of Caylee, and had the right to make whatever decision she wanted to.

I believe ICA kept Caylee because she was getting a huge amount of attention from her family and she thought it was a good thing. I doubt the actuality of a child rather than a stunning wee baby actually occurred to her.

 

[mitzi]

Jean C. on In Session says today was WONDERFUL for the defense!

Huh? Was Jean in the courtroom, or out on the street where she usually does her commentary and interviews? Cuz it didn't look like a wonderful day for the defense to me. :waitasec:

 

[Whome?]

Hang on just one second there, sister. Exactly what type of reed do you use for your weaving? I want to make damn sure you're qualified.

LOL too funny!!!!!:woohoo:

 

[Reagan]

Why does this particular issue keep coming back up? (RE: Why DP was put back on the table)

JA laid out the State's theory in open court on a silver platter for crying out loud! Is it just that the defense wants it in writing?

Many, including AL, are pretending to forget that whole speech from JA, that one could conclude that poor Caylee may have looked into the eyes of her murderer, that being her own mother, as she was suffocated via duct tape and restrained by physical and/or chemical means.

How could you forget it?

ETA: I'm sure this was addressed. I read through some of the thread, but it was the part that bugged me the most during this hearing. The state has said plainly what route they are going. Does the defense need their hands held?

 

[steadychick]

I find it too difficult to drum up any sympathy for Cindy after all that she has done. Maybe I could if every other day, she would sit on the state side of the courtroom, and show some tears for Caylee. Or even if just ONCE she sat on the state side. What kind of "loving" grandmother would give not one moment of caring about her own grandaughter who was so heinously murdered by KC?

Even dear Caylee's memorial was not one bit about Caylee. It's unfathomable to me. I feel nothing for Cindy or George.

Have you looked at George lately? He looks tired, ill, angry etc. His daughter has accused him and his son of sexual molestation. And Cindy and Casey are saying "I love you" to each other. Huh? IMO that loving grandmother has decided to believe Casey's molestation story and has chosen Casey over George and Lee.

 

[Turnadot]

I find it too difficult to drum up any sympathy for Cindy after all that she has done. Maybe I could if every other day, she would sit on the state side of the courtroom, and show some tears for Caylee. Or even if just ONCE she sat on the state side. What kind of "loving" grandmother would give not one moment of caring about her own grandaughter who was so heinously murdered by KC?

Even dear Caylee's memorial was not one bit about Caylee. It's unfathomable to me. I feel nothing for Cindy or George.

I completely respect where you're coming from on this, and your reasoning. CA and GA have behaved horribly, to say the least, and it's hard to feel sympathy for them at this point. I agree that it makes it all the more difficult when they are behaving like Caylee is an afterthought.

 

[whiteangora]

Why does this particular issue keep coming back up? (RE: Why DP was put back on the table)

JA laid out the State's theory in open court on a silver platter for crying out loud! Is it just that the defense wants it in writing?

Many, including AL, are pretending to forget that whole speech from JA, that one could conclude that poor Caylee may have looked into the eyes of her murderer, that being her own mother, as she was suffocated via duct tape and restrained by physical and/or chemical means.

How could you forget it?

ETA: I'm sure this was addressed. I read through some of the thread, but it was the part that bugged me the most during this hearing. The state has said plainly what route they are going. Does the defense need their hands held?

bbm
It would appear that the defense is suffering from a convenient case of selective amnesia.

 

[Leila]

I thought it was because the words, "guilty" and "death penalty" have mentioned matter of factly in the courtroom several times now, and ICA finally realizes what a serious "spot" she is in.It's not a lark to be in court anymore. And she wants their support.

Good point! I guess we'll have to wait until the next hearing to see if George is there and if Casey has any sort of interaction with both parents.

ICA may finally realize she's in a major jam this time and wants their support. Leading up to the trial, she may come to understand that her parents may be just two of a very limited number who will continue to support her.

 

[Muzikman]

Fortunately her appearance was a brief one time thing, I don't know what kind of rabbit AL expected this meek woman to pull out of her hat.

My question is - and it may have been asked already, haven't read the whole thread - WHO PAID TO FLY HER HERE?

If it was the Taxpayers, we got ripped off. :furious:

 

[RR0004]

Prof: Deviant mother may be perfectly good mother, but she will get tagged more than a father who is a good father but a gambler etc

Ok...had to chime in while I'm making my way through the thread...are they claiming that Casey was a great deviant mother? Are they thinking she's been sitting in jail almost 2 years 'cause she likes to hang out in bars? Is this some kind of joke?

 

[logicalgirl]

Good point! I guess we'll have to wait until the next hearing to see if George is there and if Casey has any sort of interaction with both parents.

ICA may finally realize she's in a major jam this time and wants their support. Leading up to the trial, she may come to understand that her parents may be just two of a very limited number who will continue to support her.

Yes, I think it's all become very real to her - the near and imminent danger she is facing.

When is the next hearing or can someone tell me where the hearing list is posted?

 

[Muzikman]

Just got home from today's hearing (had to make a detour to pick up the kiddos from school) and WOW, what a day! My new favorite line is: "This pretense of ignorance is getting old." I actually had to stifle a laugh on that one. Well, that and the Roy Kronk line.

I ♥ Jeff Ashton!

My favorite lines too!

It was hard not to clap today, at times.

I think the "Pretense" line is getting added to my sig. :dance:

 

[eaglemom]

In regards to the relevance of Casey's partying, drinking and general shenanigans, for me personally it is important to separate them into two categories: before Caylee went "missing" and after.

I absolutely think that Casey's activities after Caylee disappeared (was murdered) are relevant. Each and every step she took in those days should be picked apart (IMO).

However, I think it is a slippery slope to judge any mother on their activities prior to an incident (barring a situation where a child is completely uncared for and the mother is neglecting/abusing the child). I say this because, as a mom of 2 wonderful kids, I "routinely" go out with my girlfriends. It's called "Moms Night Out" and just by name alone it implies that all the attendees are moms. Are we scantily clad? Sometimes. Are we drinking? Usually. Are we dancing? Sometimes. But does that make us "bad" mothers? I certainly hope not!

If someone took snapshots of our lives during these MNO events, they would see moms (gasp!) partying. There was even one instance where the bar we were at happened to have an old stripper pole. Needless to say, we took a lot of pics of us being silly on that pole. God help us if someone ever uses those photos to show that any one of us is a “bad” mom. If someone can show a specific time when a mom (Casey or anyone) was out partying and her child was not cared for, I would think that instance would be relevant. But, if a child is being cared for (by a babysitter, father, etc) then I think moms should be able to have some fun.

Let me be clear: I am not condoning Casey's behavior while Caylee was "missing" and she was "looking" for her. Absolutely not. But, if Casey was wearing a short dress, being drunk and partying prior to Caylee's disappearance AND Caylee was in the hands of a capable adult, then I think her activities (as long as they were all legal) are irrelevant.

I agree with you just beachy on the after pics but for me I don't think the BEFORE pics are so much about categorizing someone as a 'good' or 'bad' mother, it is more about establishing a pattern of care. If it was a pattern for KC to go out and party 5 out of 7 nights during the week and GA and CA were caring for Caylee - to me that establishes a little of where KC's priorities were as a parent and is relevant. She had no job, her parents supported her, she was out most nights at clubs or with boyfriends - where did she get the income? for all I know it establishes motive... her party lifestyle created a problem with her parents and the childcare became too much of a burden for her to adjust to.....

I really don't care WHAT she was wearing at the clubs (I know you didn't bring this up justbeachy but it comes up all the time)- the fact that she was out that much at all as a single parent even living at home makes a difference to me. Yes Caylee may have had a caregiver well able to take care of her while KC was gone but the PATTERN of absence makes a difference..IMO... what happens when KC is left on her own with Caylee during the day starting early in the morning after a night of clubbing and the other caregivers have left for work? She is fine for one day what happens when this goes on 3 days in a row, 3 weeks in a row?

Parenting isn't about a choice you make for one night it is a series of choices one makes starting with conception and it just builds from there

I, too, am a mother of 4 children. I also go out with friends. I was also a single parent with 2 small children for 7 years trying to navigate single parenthood and dating and working full-time and custody arrangements and make it all work. We all look at through our own lens I guess. I just have a hard time knowing that KC had to justify her clubbing as a 'job' as an event planner with universal to her parents because it was so frequent she knew they wouldn't watch Caylee otherwise. The other nights she told CA she and Caylee were 'staying with the nanny' because she 'worked too late' and they were over at some guy's house.

I just think that her behavior is so drastically different than most parents/moms that are in the same situation as her (single parent either on their own or even those living with their parents) - as I believe most parents/moms only go out occasionally to let off some steam-- it becomes relevant in the case.

MOO

 

[Turnadot]

Ok...had to chime in while I'm making my way through the thread...are they claiming that Casey was a great deviant mother? Are they thinking she's been sitting in jail almost 2 years 'cause she likes to hang out in bars? Is this some kind of joke?

Listen, all good mothers are jobless, lying moochers who party 'till the wheels fall off. KC is in prison because she's so beautiful.

 

[logicalgirl]

Ok...had to chime in while I'm making my way through the thread...are they claiming that Casey was a great deviant mother? Are they thinking she's been sitting in jail almost 2 years 'cause she likes to hang out in bars? Is this some kind of joke?

The Defense was making me laugh with all the names they were calling ICA's behaviors - I don't think the State has said any such thing, but thanks Andrea for telling me to think those names over and associate them with ICA.:waitasec:

 

[RR0004]

JA artying with male strippers is irrelevant to being a good mother?

Huh...male strippers...where did this come from? Did I miss those pics too?

 

[Astraea]

My only criminal experience is on appeal, except for one death penalty case I worked on during the penalty phase and creating a database for the Arizona Capital Representation Project of every holding on every death penalty case in Arizona (which unfortunately required that I read every one of them). I am a trial lawyer, however, and have criminal lawyers in the family.

You seem to have 2 questions about the undisclosed witness: (1) was she "really" undisclosed, and (2) in AZ, do judges "sometimes" allow undisclosed witnesses. I can't answer #1. As for #2, I have never seen it happen in AZ--except where one witness is essentially a substitute for another on some minor issue like "yes, these are our business records"--but we have some pretty extensive disclosure rules.

In this case, I think the judge would have let that witness in even if she had no qualifications whatsoever and had been disclosed at 9:00 am that morning, because he did not want any appeal issue related to the "gender bias" motion.

Thank you AZ. I appreciate your response and your experience! I was a little remiss to ask, for fear of sounding rude in some way, but I hoped that you wouldnt take it as being so

It is my experience here that many judges will allow certain impromptu witnesses during motions, amongst other matters. Our law rules of course allow for this and I am going to assume that FLs must as well or JP never would have allowed it. I would be surprised to see such a thing at trial though!

I am still of the understanding after reviewing the beginning of the hearing for a second time that this witness was not a surprise and/or undisclosed witness persay, more so, that the timing was poor and/or inadequate for the SA to prepare as JA stated.

 

[Chat Noir]

I thought it was interesting that the tears begun after it was said that Caylee was a happy & healthy little girl. Could that be a sign of guilt?

 

[Mamabear1963]

Why does this particular issue keep coming back up? (RE: Why DP was put back on the table)

JA laid out the State's theory in open court on a silver platter for crying out loud! Is it just that the defense wants it in writing?

Many, including AL, are pretending to forget that whole speech from JA, that one could conclude that poor Caylee may have looked into the eyes of her murderer, that being her own mother, as she was suffocated via duct tape and restrained by physical and/or chemical means.

How could you forget it?

ETA: I'm sure this was addressed. I read through some of the thread, but it was the part that bugged me the most during this hearing. The state has said plainly what route they are going. Does the defense need their hands held?

This drove me battywonkers at first today...and I don't have far to go...but the more I have thought about it the more I realize...let's get as much of this heard now as possible...more time now...less time in the appeal process...

Just like allowing the Ms. Rapaport etc...Like HHJP said..."Mr. Ashton, I am just giving them some latitude right now..." almost with a wink and don't worry it will be okay (though he didn't say it)

 

[justbeachy]

Huh...male strippers...where did this come from? Did I miss those pics too?

This, I believe, was a reference to Darlie Routier. Her case was used as an example.