2011.03.24 Frye Hearing - Afternoon portion

[flourish]

flourish: YESTERDAY's piece was AMAZING, perfect and caught the TONE and action "just right"! "TRANSCRIPTY" at just the right level, you are so talented!:rocker: MERCI!

My goodness, joypath making me tear up getting a huge compliment from such a respected member of WS...why, thank you! :blush:

 

[Aedrys]

Thank GOD there's no hearing tomorrow. Baez drives me crazy. It's like he could be doing this the right way and earning respect and points with the judge and SA, but NO, he is just bullheaded and won't do it any other way but his way - to the point of throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants. I hope the rest of his defense team was horrified by him today. I wouldn't be surprised to see other people leave, if that were possible. Too bad Mason wasn't there to see it or add anything to it.

And Dr. Vass is my new hero. What a herculean effort on his part to deal with Baez for hours today. I bet he is enjoying some wine and then getting some good rest - he really deserves it. I was very impressed and wowed by him. I hope he testifies at trial. It really struck me when he said he jumped two feet back upon opening the trunk. He, the guy who has worked at the Tennessee Body Farm that is full of corpses in various stages of decomposition was startled by the smell emanating from Casey's trunk. I think when he said that, it was a moment of harsh reality for Casey, which is why she looked up at him.

I was also shocked beyond belief at the chloroform levels. Dear God, ten thousand times a normal sample? Holy Crap that is a lot of chloroform, and is making me rethink those chloroform theories I had written off before. I don't see Casey making it, or if she did, she got lazy and didn't do it correctly. Most likely, she got it through someone else, or I wonder charged it to her mother's credit card? I can totally see her doing that. I can also see a desperate Cindy using it to get the smell out of the trunk too. It'll be interesting at trial to hear the state's theory involving duct tape and chloroform should they choose a theory that involves both.

The meat and marijuana thing about killed me. It just blows my mind that Baez thinks he can use reasoning that a normal human would call idiotic and insane to explain away things. I found myself WISHING that he would go with more REASONABLE explanations for things. I mean, does he really think he's going to convince a jury that Casey and her friends were just eating burgers and smoking marijuana in her trunk and that's where the stain that has adipocere in it came from? He really thinks the absurd is reasonable, and that has never been more evident than today. God, he cannot be more of a twin to his client if he tried!

And btw, I would trust any dog over Baez any day of the week. Unless he thinks he's going to get twelve cat owners or twelve people who hate animals on the jury, he really needs to focus on something else besides saying the dogs are wrong. They know what they smelled. They were trained for it. And dog's noses do not lie.

 

[faefrost]

what was being discussed at that time in the Hearing? maybe I can find that portion of the video and capture a photo (thanks to ANJ help with screen captures!!)

It was the tail end of the great JB contempt blow out. Up until the moment AF grabs JB and gets him to quickly request a 5 minute recess. It may not look as clear in still photos, but in motion he looked very worrying. You could tell HHJP's blood pressure was well above normal recommended levels.

 

[Ssejors]

PS! Just for the record, I Uber <3 Faefrost! High school girl crush FTW! Ty for your summary!

 

[cyberborg]

It was the tail end of the great JB contempt blow out. Up until the moment AF grabs JB and gets him to quickly request a 5 minute recess. It may not look as clear in still photos, but in motion he looked very worrying. You could tell HHJP's blood pressure was well above normal recommended levels.

I think HHJP reached a tipping point and blew a fuse. He had to do a manual reset and recover himself. JB went too far with his accusatory tantrums that serve no-one other than to needlessly inflame and escalate emotional tensions between the Defense and SA. Luckily AF pulled JB away and saved the day.

 

[Concerned Papa]

When a renowned scientific expert such as Dr. Vass testifies to having "jumped back 2 feet" from the overwhelming smell of death, and throw in the defendant's own father's words regarding the smell of death, Mr. Baez is fighting a loosing battle at the onset.

I can't see a jury ever getting past those words.

 

[ynotdivein]

And Dr. Vass is my new hero. What a herculean effort on his part to deal with Baez for hours today. I bet he is enjoying some wine and then getting some good rest - he really deserves it. I was very impressed and wowed by him. I hope he testifies at trial. It really struck me when he said he jumped two feet back upon opening the trunk. He, the guy who has worked at the Tennessee Body Farm that is full of corpses in various stages of decomposition was startled by the smell emanating from Casey's trunk. I think when he said that, it was a moment of harsh reality for Casey, which is why she looked up at him.

I was also shocked beyond belief at the chloroform levels. Dear God, ten thousand times a normal sample? Holy Crap that is a lot of chloroform, and is making me rethink those chloroform theories I had written off before

Very respectfully SBM for focus:

I think he jumped two feet back from a test strip cut out of the trunk liner carpet, then sealed in a paint can and sent to him--FWIW! Lord knows how he would have reacted if he'd been standing at the trunk when it was popped open...

Still and all--KC did NOT like his testimony. Not one little bit.

As for the chloroform levels, I am still :shocked2:. I mean, I read the reports, but it is such a different experience to have Dr. Vass there in the flesh, relating what those readings really indicate. This man has two decades in the field. He has done ground-breaking, peer-reviewed research. He has taken old standards, thought to himself, "Hm, how can I improve on these?" and then gone ahead and done it. And HE of all people was surprised by the extraordinarily high levels of chloroform in the trunk of that car? I mean, just wow.

 

[LambChop]

Okay..sorry for taking so long to respond..It is my understanding that Decomp odour comes from the fluids and tissues that are breaking down..and as far as Garage goes..It was only in that garage for a day or so...Those naxious odor would likely be able to be aired out..as I dont think the carpeting that held those fluids being an absorptive material would not likely be cleanable..however just odour or smell could be dispelled with air circulation and any hard surfaces (which does not absorb) could be wiped unless fluids seeped into crevices.....

Entirely too long explanation..But suffice to say that Car had a long time to absorb that odour and fluids into soft fabrics ( between Heat and locked up tight)...I had toLOL at Casey's excuse to Amy that she had a dead squirrel that got lodged under her car..Nope..and even Dr. Vass today said he was surprised Decomposing Squirrels dont smell like decomp:floorlaugh:

Squirrels don't eat meat. That is why they don't smell bad.

 

[Turnadot]

Squirrels don't eat meat. That is why they don't smell bad.

I'm a vegetarian, which means I could be dead for weeks before I'm found.

 

[pip]

Squirrels don't eat meat. That is why they don't smell bad.

Funny.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thank GOD there's no hearing tomorrow. Baez drives me crazy. It's like he could be doing this the right way and earning respect and points with the judge and SA, but NO, he is just bullheaded and won't do it any other way but his way - to the point of throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants. I hope the rest of his defense team was horrified by him today. I wouldn't be surprised to see other people leave, if that were possible. Too bad Mason wasn't there to see it or add anything to it.

And Dr. Vass is my new hero. What a herculean effort on his part to deal with Baez for hours today. I bet he is enjoying some wine and then getting some good rest - he really deserves it. I was very impressed and wowed by him. I hope he testifies at trial. It really struck me when he said he jumped two feet back upon opening the trunk. He, the guy who has worked at the Tennessee Body Farm that is full of corpses in various stages of decomposition was startled by the smell emanating from Casey's trunk. I think when he said that, it was a moment of harsh reality for Casey, which is why she looked up at him.

I was also shocked beyond belief at the chloroform levels. Dear God, ten thousand times a normal sample? Holy Crap that is a lot of chloroform, and is making me rethink those chloroform theories I had written off before. I don't see Casey making it, or if she did, she got lazy and didn't do it correctly. Most likely, she got it through someone else, or I wonder charged it to her mother's credit card? I can totally see her doing that. I can also see a desperate Cindy using it to get the smell out of the trunk too. It'll be interesting at trial to hear the state's theory involving duct tape and chloroform should they choose a theory that involves both.

The meat and marijuana thing about killed me. It just blows my mind that Baez thinks he can use reasoning that a normal human would call idiotic and insane to explain away things. I found myself WISHING that he would go with more REASONABLE explanations for things. I mean, does he really think he's going to convince a jury that Casey and her friends were just eating burgers and smoking marijuana in her trunk and that's where the stain that has adipocere in it came from? He really thinks the absurd is reasonable, and that has never been more evident than today. God, he cannot be more of a twin to his client if he tried!

And btw, I would trust any dog over Baez any day of the week. Unless he thinks he's going to get twelve cat owners or twelve people who hate animals on the jury, he really needs to focus on something else besides saying the dogs are wrong. They know what they smelled. They were trained for it. And dog's noses do not lie.

WHAT????? No comment about the squirrel testimony???? Aedyrs - you shock me!! :great: ............ :snowball:

 

[Whome?]

Don't know which was the worst moment today...

1. The smirk and the wink to Simms and ICA by Baez.
2. The facebook and Wiki reference by Baez and insinuation that Dr Vass wrote them.
3. Baez's tanty minus only a stomping foot.
4. ICA boggling eyes and look of disgust when funeral owner dumped bodies out the back door.

Toss up.

Worse moment for me was Dorothy Sims went off about the camera men seeing her info on her computer,I believe she has made some court watchers move from behind the defense seats so they "cannot see her computer monitor screen" IMHO why in the world would you have "sensitive data" you are working on in a live court room setting, should that work not be done back at the office? Any information that you deem not appropriate should be written down and later transcribed. IMHO this flap was much to do about nothing. If you don't want anyone to see what you are writing, do it in privacy,not in open court JMHO :maddening::banghead:

 

[Turnadot]

When a renowned scientific expert such as Dr. Vass testifies to having "jumped back 2 feet" from the overwhelming smell of death, and throw in the defendant's own father's words regarding the smell of death, Mr. Baez is fighting a loosing battle at the onset.

I can't see a jury ever getting past those words.

I agree. It was hyperbole on his part, but I took his point and it made quite an impact on me.

 

[LambChop]

I'm a vegetarian, which means I could be dead for weeks before I'm found.

Eat more garlic.

 

[ThinkTank]

Awesome screen caps, TT, and thank you so much for everything you do for us here...

Now, do you happen to have any shots of KC's face when Sgt. Forgey was testifying about the cadaver dog hits in her backyard? Or when Dr. Vass was testifying about the smell from the trunk liner sample he got?

Purely for scientific/comparison purposes, you understand...

Found the portion of the Hearing where JB was questioning Forgey about the dog alerts in back yard -- but the camera does not show KC at all ....

http://www.wftv.com/video/27308085/index.html
Part 3 of 5

(9:30) Baez - did you complete other reports in this case? - not recall
you completed other searches in this case ? yes
defendant's parent's house - searched back yard
with canine partner - entered by northwest corner gate, went in yard, completed search of
(10: 22) searched entire yard
got an alert at SE corner yard near playground area - just one alert? - alert prior to alerting around playhouse, picnic table, sand box, with plants - alerting in that area - he gave me a final trained alert in SE corner of yard
[camera not showing KC at all]

let him work the source - SE corner of yard near playground area gave me a final trained alert

 

[Turnadot]

Eat more garlic.

Thanks, it will also keep vampires away. A win-win.

 

[pip]

I liked Dr. Vass, he is one smart guy, but.. I don't have a good feeling about this getting in. It is novel, and I hate to say it, but some grey areas were pointed out, which Dr. Vass kind of lagged in answers for. He didn't exactly set Baez straight and clear. I think HHJP saw muddy waters.

I REALLY hope I am wrong, but that is the feeling I was left with after watching. The rest? IN IN IN, fo sho.

 

[Lanie]

I was kind of idly wondering if she dumped a bunch in there in an effort to lessen the smell while still driving the car.....

I don't know. I'm a long ways from a chloroform expert, but it seems to me if movies can be believed, pouring a little on a rag and sticking it over someone's face seems to knock them out pretty quickly, so I would think sticking your head in a trunk to clean it out with chloroform would have the same results, along with pouring it in your trunk.

My stance, and it was a stubborn and pigheaded one, was there was actual chloroform introduced into the trunk. How or why, I don't really have a good theory on. :waitasec:

 

[A_News_Junkie]

<snip>

Just an FYI - but we are most likely going to use the chat room feature here during the trial.

We're very aware that the pace of the hearing threads is a problem for many, many people. To stay on topic, we'll let that rest for now. Updates will be forthcoming.

Beach,
I know you want to stay on topic but if you all go to chat room, can there be a log posted. I actually do go back and read everything said after the hearings -- sometimes takes me a few days but I do. For the most part, I listen - record on InSession and do the caps so we have pictures and an added layer of back up with the tv coverage (to greats like Patty G, etc) but I do like to read all the thoughts and sometimes it helps me see how jurors might see things different than me. I hardly ever post during hearings and most of my posts might be some that are objected to. I will certainly think harder before posting now; but I would hate to loose this part of the coverage.
I loved the summary thread idea. I know Tony P and maybe others are tweeting updates from courthouse. I am hoping something like what was done at the trial for Justice for Kari Baker will happen in this case. They had a media room and all the major stations had live running blogs. Very easy to catch up if you had to miss a day or an hour.
Anyway, just wanted to say thank you to you and all our staff for all you do, and I will try harder to make sure I don't add to your job.
BEST AND HUGSSSSSSSS!

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't know. I'm a long ways from a chloroform expert, but it seems to me if movies can be believed, pouring a little on a rag and sticking it over someone's face seems to knock them out pretty quickly, so I would think sticking your head in a trunk to clean it out with chloroform would have the same results, along with pouring it in your trunk.

My stance, and it was a stubborn and pigheaded one, was there was actual chloroform introduced into the trunk. How or why, I don't really have a good theory on. :waitasec:

Umm - did I not suggest ICA just quickly poured it in there and continued to drive her car around - not using it to clean a la CA?