2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[gwenabob]

Another MSM news channel has the court copy in their article. Looks like they were actually filed with the court on Wednesday. Interesting they didn't hit the media outlets until Friday.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/107588123.html

True. Actually filed on Tuesday morning, and entered Wednesday. I suppose the holiday yesterday might have been a factor in slowing it down.

 

[freefallzzzz]

True. Actually filed on Tuesday morning, and entered Wednesday. I suppose the holiday yesterday might have been a factor in slowing it down.

That is what I was thinking..

Did you notice where certain areas has been highlighted -look at doc- (I assume
it was that media outlet that did it) =) KATU

Look at KOIN's
no highlights..
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib...9-453a-80b8-3ed80892bf53/Horman_Paperwork.pdf

 

[JBean]

Wait. He's asking the court to consider her silence as guilt. But I thought the court was not permitted to consider silence as guilt.

I need a lawyer.

In civil cases silence can be considered an indication of guilt;but it cannot be considered as such in a criminal case.

 

[grandmaj]

It's unfortuate that KH did not exercise his parental rights on behalf of the children by not removing them long ago if he thought that TH was "emotionally unstable and a unfit Mother".... I'd feel the same if the shoe were on the other foot.

There are many decisions in my life I would have made more quickly or made different decisions, if only I had a crystal ball. There are many times I have reflected on my own actions and thought about how I should have handled things differently. Wouldn't it be nice if we could turn back the hands of time?

The "emotionally unstable" I believe came as a result of learning that Terri had tried to hire someone to kill him, and Kyron disappearing. And the realization that this woman is probably dangerous.

Kaine said he never saw it coming. So to say until these events unraveled that he would have known that Terri was capable of these things is asking that Kaine had a view into the future.

Who among us can see into the future and know that what we do, how we interact with our spouse and friends, who we trust is the best decision.

I recently had a betrayal from a good friend. In retrospect I look back and know that I gave this person many passes and just said oh that is just *name*. This person really betrayed my trust and that of a mutual friend. And, I never saw it coming. Manipulation was this person's game.

Whenever we open our heart to friendships, relationships, professional relationships we can be blind sighted. Because by having these relationships they validate that we are liked, needed, cherished, intelligent etc. But, they also open the door to our vulnerability to their actions. And if their actions are very ill willed we can find ourselves hurt. Sometimes devastated.

In retrospect/hindsight I think we all see things much more clearly. Terri was a master at manipulation IMO.

 

[JBean]

here ya go:

Refusal to testify in a civil case

While defendants are entitled to assert that right, there are consequences to the assertion of the Fifth Amendment in a civil action.
The Supreme Court has held that “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976). “[A]s Mr. Justice Brandeis declared, speaking for a unanimous court in the Tod case, ‘Silence is often evidence of the most persuasive character.’” Id. at 319 (quoting United States ex rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153-154 (1923)). “‘Failure to contest an assertion...is considered evidence of acquiescence...if it would have been natural under the circumstances to object to the assertion in question.’” Id. (quoting United States v. Hale, 422 U.S. 171, 176 (1975)).
In Baxter, the state was entitled to an adverse inference against Palmigiano because of the evidence against him and his assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege.


[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/ame]

 

[Billylee]

JMO, but this case is going to go down in legal history.

 

[Dee10]

here ya go:

Refusal to testify in a civil case

While defendants are entitled to assert that right, there are consequences to the assertion of the Fifth Amendment in a civil action.
The Supreme Court has held that “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976). “[A]s Mr. Justice Brandeis declared, speaking for a unanimous court in the Tod case, ‘Silence is often evidence of the most persuasive character.’” Id. at 319 (quoting United States ex rel. Bilokumsky v. Tod, 263 U.S. 149, 153-154 (1923)). “‘Failure to contest an assertion...is considered evidence of acquiescence...if it would have been natural under the circumstances to object to the assertion in question.’” Id. (quoting United States v. Hale, 422 U.S. 171, 176 (1975)).
In Baxter, the state was entitled to an adverse inference against Palmigiano because of the evidence against him and his assertion of the Fifth Amendment privilege.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

So given that & Terri has the best attorney so to speak, he gave his advice I assume and she took it, regardless of her daughter. I KNOW it sounds hard, but she had legal choices and she made her choice round, round we go. So are TH supporters thinking she doesn't have proper council????

 

[AlexisFresca]

So has anyone noticed that Terri didn't try to defend herself of the accusations in her response to Kaine's response (for Terri's request for visitation) regarding her drinking and other inappropriate behavior? I find it interesting that several are wondering why Kaine didn't do this, that and the other, yet Terri is not denying any of these accusations? She's more concerned about self-incrimination in answering? Something wrong with this scenario, maybe?

 

[JBean]

So given that & Terri has the best attorney so to speak, he gave his advice I assume and she took it, regardless of her daughter. I KNOW it sounds hard, but she had legal choices and she made her choice round, round we go. So are TH supporters thinking she doesn't have proper council????

Be careful not to confuse TH supporters with those that support TH's rights.
It is best to avoid generalizations like that because this is not an either or situation and can create antagonism on the board. Does that make sense? I am not saying that is what you are doing at all! I am only pointing out that it can be taken that way and it can lead to arguments.
TIA :hug:

 

[JBean]

You know this case got me thinking about the Chandra levy case, since it is in the news right now.
Condit was considered the main suspect by the public specifically because he was misleading and did not come out to the press with information and/or come clean to the public about what he knew. Now the difference here, is that I think he may have shared everything he knew with LE, but that was not apparent to the public.So his strong desire to keep his infidelities on the way way down low, created an illlusion of guilt. he made himself look guilty because he did not want his true character revealed.
Again, I think he cooperated with LE and answered all their questions and I do not think that is the case with TH. But still an all it is an interesting parallel because it was his silence that raised a lot of the suspicion surrounding him and Chandra Levy.

Additionally, I think he felt comfortable remaining silent because, in this case he knew he was innocent and so considered revealing all his carpy behavior as something that he just did not need to do. He was willing to take all the bad press because ultimately he was probably confident he would not be on trial for murder.

It still didn't work out too well for him though.

Just an interesting chain of events in that case.

 

[mmmagique]

JMO, but this case is going to go down in legal history.

I agree. But probably for different reasons.

 

[MsFacetious]

I had heard people saying before that Terri's DUI/child neglect charge would prevent her from getting a teaching job... I was inclined to agree.

However... if running down a high profile police officer, while drunk, on your way to a teaching function... gets you a welcome back party when you are released from jail.... in the same area... I think Terri should at least be attempting to get a job.

If she is not willing to try to get a job... well she is living with her parents. She does not need spousal support. There are jobs she can do from home if she feels the need to contribute in some way.

I cannot comprehend the audacity it would take to ask your husband for money... when he believes you tried to kill him and are refusing to reveal the location of his child. Just out of human consideration, if you are innocent... leave him alone. If you are not innocent, tell him where his son is and you won't need his spousal support then.

Regardless of innocence or guilt, I don't understand the actions here. Take the house, take the money, take the cars, take my stuff... I don't care, because your son that I adore and helped raise, is missing. All that matters to me is finding him and the well being of my daughter, we will handle custody of her later.

Why would you argue over these things or drag this out in this situation?

Hard to believe, isn't it. The nerve of that woman asking for one thin dime from him. He gave her money to get out of Dodge, and that still isn't enough. She has a college degree. She needs to put it to use. And if she can't get a job teaching (LOL) I am sure she could put her hobby to use and talk to men on the phone all day for money.

 

[Sherazhad]

I believe Terris lawyers are doing the best they can with what they have. It speaks volumes that they believe silence is her best defense. And honestly its working. I also support kaine that terris silence is incriminating. The truth when you are innocent cannot hurt you- look at Desiree and kaine.
With the lack of evidence in this case I dont blame LE for focusing on what is unusual and not "normal" such as sexting after kaine was missing: definitely not the bahaviour of a loving mother and keeping silent when most innocent parents would be begging the real perpetrator to bring thei child back. Terri doesnt act like there is another culprit and it makes me ask "why?"

 

[Pensfan]

I had heard people saying before that Terri's DUI/child neglect charge would prevent her from getting a teaching job... I was inclined to agree.

However... if running down a high profile police officer, while drunk, on your way to a teaching function... gets you a welcome back party when you are released from jail.... in the same area... I think Terri should at least be attempting to get a job.

If she is not willing to try to get a job... well she is living with her parents. She does not need spousal support. There are jobs she can do from home if she feels the need to contribute in some way.

Respectfully shortened
BBM
Perhaps Terri's intricate knowledge of hiding cell phones calls (as exhibitied in her sexts with Michael-"flashed your phone" and "clean phone") was derived from her "working" from home? "Working from home" might account for why she looked exhausted all of the time as stated by her friend on Dateline. Perhaps this is an additional reason for her silence?

 

[Sherazhad]

I think Terris silence is abnormal in this case as she is not acting like a loving parent. Loving parents would not be focused on themselves when their children have gone missing-their focus would be on doing anything to find their child. Terri is more concerned with protecting herself. Where is her anger that any1 could dare accuse her of hurting a child she loved? Why is she not pleading with the "real" perpetrator to tell where kyron is.
In my view her silence shouts out her guilt, but I agree that LE need to get more evidence in order to convict. Common sense points the finger at her, but there has to be concrete evidence somewhere.

 

[MsFacetious]

Or maybe she was just hungover?

I don't get hangovers, period, I never have.... so I don't know. But if Terri does I would imagine that drinking yourself to sleep, having a hangover and then still having to function everyday might be a bit exhausting?

If the drinking at night thing is true... that might be it.

Though, there could be some wider, more complicated reason... I just don't have the brain power for complicated right now... so I went to simple and logical. :waitasec:

It would be nice to know if the woman at Fred Meyer, who also knew her from the gym... or the PTA lady thought she looked tired. If she only looked tired after that 1.5 hours between Fred Meyer and the gym..... then that would be very interesting.

Respectfully shortened
BBM
Perhaps Terri's intricate knowledge of hiding cell phones calls (as exhibitied in her sexts with Michael-"flashed your phone" and "clean phone") was derived from her "working" from home? "Working from home" might account for why she looked exhausted all of the time as stated by her friend on Dateline. Perhaps this is an additional reason for her silence?

 

[txsvicki]

I'm still not understanding just what Terri could say in her divorce that would incriminate her in doing something to Kyron that day or how it is going to help Kyron's case be resolved. I can see how she might be implicated in a murder for hire with testimony of LS guy, and phone records. Maybe shown unfit and possibly alcoholic by testimony of a few others, but haven't heard anyone mention a thing that would help get her charged with the disappearance of Kyron. I wonder if the detectives approve of this divorce legal stuff.

 

[Trt]

Because anything she said could be used against her.

once again, we aren't talking about criminal actions. She still has a right to plead the fifth to anything that may incriminate her. Again, drinking and sexting, playing on the computer and passing out aren't illegal. Fighting those allegations can't harm her criminally and I'm unsure how anything she said as it relates to that could be used against her should she ever be charged with Kyron's disappearance or the MFH plot.

But she obviously does. Fine. She has that right under the law. What I hear is some saying that Terri should be able to exercise her rights and Kaine should just be reasonable and understanding and still allow her access to his remaining child. Terri lost her rights to her child under the same system
of law that she is using to protect her 5th amendment rights.

What I'm hearing is that Terri should be protected under the law, but it is unreasonable for Kaine to use the law to protect baby K. I can't agree with that.

Jmo

 

[Sherazhad]

Maybe there is more evidence that she fears coming out. She wouldnt neccessarily know if LE would allow kaine to use it against her. If Terri does have friends who know things she wants kept hidden and believe that terri is a victim in all this she may fear that even more unflattering information may convince them to tell what they know. I believe that Terri has deliberately painted herself as a victim to her friends and whilst I dont believe they are in on the abduction, they may have some information that could be used against her. She needs them to keep believing that she is the injured party.
It is very clear that there is something wrong with Terri and the way she has behaved from the sexting to the silence. Terri may not know exactly how much LE has on her but the fact that she fears it shows that there is evidence to be found if they havent found it already.

 

[TallCoolOne]

erm.....I'm thinkin' she'd be out of business in a week lol

I'd have to agree there. If her text messages were any indication of her ability, well the only reaction it brought from me came from my gag reflex..........