2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BeanE]

once again, we aren't talking about criminal actions. She still has a right to plead the fifth to anything that may incriminate her. Again, drinking and sexting, playing on the computer and passing out aren't illegal. Fighting those allegations can't harm her criminally and I'm unsure how anything she said as it relates to that could be used against her should she ever be charged with Kyron's disappearance or the MFH plot.

Why Terri Horman is keeping quiet
[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40157985#40157985"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

But she obviously does. Fine. She has that right under the law. What I hear is some saying that Terri should be able to exercise her rights and Kaine should just be reasonable and understanding and still allow her access to his remaining child.

What I'm hearing is that Terri should be protected under the law, but it is unreasonable for Kaine to use the law to protect baby K.

Noting for the record: I did *NOT*, and have *NEVER*, said, implied, or insinuated any of that. I don't think or feel it.

 

[Trt]

BeanE...the link you provided was not found. Please note that I did not say *you said* the things I was hearing. I said that is what I was hearing that. It's my interpretation based on some of the things that I've read on this thread and others. It seems that many want Kaine to just cooperate and let Terri see her daughter. I feel like they both have a right to use this system of law to protect their(and their children's) rights.

Jmo

 

[BeanE]

BeanE...the link you provided was not found. Please note that I did not say *you said* the things I was hearing. I said that is what I was hearing that. It's my interpretation based on some of the things that I've read on this thread and others. It seems that many want Kaine to just cooperate and let Terri see her daughter. I feel like they both have a right to use this system of law to protect their(and their children's) rights.

Jmo

Thanks, trt.

The link works for me. Not sure why it isn't working for you, or how to fix that. Maybe a difference in browser and plugins?

 

[debs]

Maybe there is more evidence that she fears coming out. She wouldnt neccessarily know if LE would allow kaine to use it against her. If Terri does have friends who know things she wants kept hidden and believe that terri is a victim in all this she may fear that even more unflattering information may convince them to tell what they know. I believe that Terri has deliberately painted herself as a victim to her friends and whilst I dont believe they are in on the abduction, they may have some information that could be used against her. She needs them to keep believing that she is the injured party.
It is very clear that there is something wrong with Terri and the way she has behaved from the sexting to the silence. Terri may not know exactly how much LE has on her but the fact that she fears it shows that there is evidence to be found if they havent found it already.

And yet, if she's innocent, she has everything to fear. She's already lost her entire family. Her liberty is now on the line. Her silence is now the only thing that keeps her from being wrongfully prosecuted for crimes she may not have committed. That's a reality everyone should fear.

 

[Cazzie]

I apologize for asking questions, and coming into this case discussion so late on. I watched "Dateline" last nite.

I remember reading allegations here (or was it just speculation) about Terri using a stun gun on dear Kyron?

Please tell me about alleged abuse by her on Kyron.

My perception of Kaine (on Dateline) is that he is sincere; likewise Desiree. I do wonder about them splitting up right about the time of Kyron's birth, though. So sad.

 

[debs]

once again, we aren't talking about criminal actions. She still has a right to plead the fifth to anything that may incriminate her. Again, drinking and sexting, playing on the computer and passing out aren't illegal. Fighting those allegations can't harm her criminally and I'm unsure how anything she said as it relates to that could be used against her should she ever be charged with Kyron's disappearance or the MFH plot.

But she obviously does. Fine. She has that right under the law. What I hear is some saying that Terri should be able to exercise her rights and Kaine should just be reasonable and understanding and still allow her access to his remaining child. Terri lost her rights to her child under the same system
of law that she is using to protect her 5th amendment rights.

What I'm hearing is that Terri should be protected under the law, but it is unreasonable for Kaine to use the law to protect baby K. I can't agree with that.

Jmo

Terri can't answer whether she was a drunk snoring on the couch because Kaine's attorneys want also to ask her about a MFH and kidnapping. Terri can't answer questions about whether she's a good mother because they also want to ask her whether she was a pissed off wife and snapped, taking out her frustration on Kyron. Those are criminal questions. She hasn't been charged with a criminal offense, either MFH or kidnapping. If she takes the stand to answer whether she was drunk alla time, she has to also then answer whether she's a MFH kidnapper. You cannot assert the Fifth for one question. You have to assert it for all.

That's just the way it works. She can't answer because the law states she doesn't have to incriminate herself. She can't answer because even if she wanted to tell the world she was a drunk on the couch but for the last 6 months she's been in therapy for it and attended AA 3 times a day, she can't. Because she would then have to answer questions about criminal events which she hasn't been charged with, but what she says regarding them WILL be used against her, even if she asserts she did not do them.

 

[Kimster]

I apologize for asking questions, and coming into this case discussion so late on. I watched "Dateline" last nite.

I remember reading allegations here (or was it just speculation) about Terri using a stun gun on dear Kyron?

Please tell me about alleged abuse by her on Kyron.

My perception of Kaine (on Dateline) is that he is sincere; likewise Desiree. I do wonder about them splitting up right about the time of Kyron's birth, though. So sad.

I've never heard about a stun gun? I think that must be a rumor.

I also don't recall hearing any abuse on Kyron either? Desiree said that Kyron wouldn't want to go home after visitation, but IMO that isn't very unusual in step-families. And it has been reported that the split occurred because KH had begun a relationship with TH.

 

[grandmaj]

Terri can't answer whether she was a drunk snoring on the couch because Kaine's attorneys want also to ask her about a MFH and kidnapping. Terri can't answer questions about whether she's a good mother because they also want to ask her whether she was a pissed off wife and snapped, taking out her frustration on Kyron. Those are criminal questions. She hasn't been charged with a criminal offense, either MFH or kidnapping. If she takes the stand to answer whether she was drunk alla time, she has to also then answer whether she's a MFH kidnapper. You cannot assert the Fifth for one question. You have to assert it for all.

That's just the way it works. She can't answer because the law states she doesn't have to incriminate herself. She can't answer because even if she wanted to tell the world she was a drunk on the couch but for the last 6 months she's been in therapy for it and attended AA 3 times a day, she can't. Because she would then have to answer questions about criminal events which she hasn't been charged with, but what she says regarding them WILL be used against her, even if she asserts she did not do them.

Terri does not have to blanket plead the fifth, and in fact may not have the right to blanket plead the fifth. That is not how the Fifth Amendment is structured. RE: Rackner's latest filing with case law quoted. She does not have blanket immunity from testifying at all.

She can pick and chose which questions she answers. She certainly could say I took baby K to the park 3x a week. Her favorite food is *** She has a favorite toy that is *** I drink and I go to AA.

She could then plead the fifth on any question asked with her attorney advising her along the way, which questions may relate to the criminal matter.

There is nothing in the Fifth Amendment that gives her blanket rights in a civil matter, to not testify to matters which are unrelated to the criminal matter. And in fact, not answering matters unrelated to the criminal matter can be used against her.

 

[Cazzie]

I've never heard about a stun gun? I think that must be a rumor.

I also don't recall hearing any abuse on Kyron either? Desiree said that Kyron wouldn't want to go home after visitation, but IMO that isn't very unusual in step-families. And it has been reported that the split occurred because KH had begun a relationship with TH.

Ugh (BBM). Kaine started up another relationship at Kyron's birth?!?!? Damn him. Sorry. And here I was, liking him.

I should search first but I know I read it here about the stun gun, but probably speculation, like I said. I really don't want to participate in rumors and was just asking for info.

 

[debs]

Terri does not have to blanket plead the fifth, and in fact may not have the right to blanket plead the fifth. That is not how the Fifth Amendment is structured. RE: Rackner's latest filing with case law quoted. She does not have blanket immunity from testifying at all.

She can pick and chose which questions she answers. She certainly could say I took baby K to the park 3x a week. Her favorite food is *** She has a favorite toy that is *** I drink and I go to AA.

She could then plead the fifth on any question asked with her attorney advising her along the way, which questions may relate to the criminal matter.

There is nothing in the Fifth Amendment that gives her blanket rights in a civil matter, to not testify to matters which are unrelated to the criminal matter. And in fact, not answering matters unrelated to the criminal matter can be used against her.

Right. ANYTHING she says WILL be used against her.

 

[debs]

Ugh (BBM). Kaine started up another relationship at Kyron's birth?!?!? Damn him. Sorry. And here I was, liking him.

I should search first but I know I read it here about the stun gun, but probably speculation, like I said. I really don't want to participate in rumors and was just asking for info.

Forgive me for chuckling, but amidst these tawdry proceedings, your naivete on the particulars of this case is refreshing. I wish I didn't know anything about these people and their private lives. Yes, Kaine had an affair while Desiree was pregnant with Kyron. His affair was with Terri. I imagine it's to their credit that the relationship lasted as long as it did. Many relationships begun like theirs was burn out really quickly.

 

[Kimster]

Ugh (BBM). Kaine started up another relationship at Kyron's birth?!?!? Damn him. Sorry. And here I was, liking him.

I should search first but I know I read it here about the stun gun, but probably speculation, like I said. I really don't want to participate in rumors and was just asking for info.

I still like him and my heart goes out to him for the pain he is suffering. There is still the freedom to forgive if you want. But I don't like infidelity any more than you do, sounds like.

 

[Cazzie]

Forgive me for chuckling, but amidst these tawdry proceedings, your naivete on the particulars of this case is refreshing. I wish I didn't know anything about these people and their private lives. Yes, Kaine had an affair while Desiree was pregnant with Kyron. His affair was with Terri. I imagine it's to their credit that the relationship lasted as long as it did. Many relationships begun like theirs was burn out really quickly.

Glad I could inspire a chuckle.

I can't get Kyron and his smile out of my mind (not that I want to, but YKWIM). What a dear sweet boy.

It's hinky that Terri took that photo of Kyron at the science fair that day, and then a friend commented that it seemed weird that Terri made a point of showing that photo to her (at the grocery store).

Gosh, I guess they have searched Savie Island but not enough.

I'll be OK, but this case really pizzes me off.

 

[grandmaj]

Respectfully I'm not sure how Terri proving that her daughter and her are connected has anything to do with or could be used in the criminal proceeding.

Terri filed this motion. Then refused to do what she needed to do to prove her fitness as a parent. She certainly could answer to many things that would not even be admissible ub a criminal matter. How these very personal things about mother/daughter relationship can be used in the criminal matter against Terri is not reasonable. She and her attorney do not want her to talk at all and that is not a 5th Amendment right.

 

[Cazzie]

I still like him and my heart goes out to him for the pain he is suffering. There is still the freedom to forgive if you want. But I don't like infidelity any more than you do, sounds like.

Of course my heart goes out to him about Kyron being missing. :heart: It just doesn't sit right with me that he had an affair while Desiree was preggo (are you kidding me?).

 

[debs]

Respectfully I'm not sure how Terri proving that her daughter and her are connected has anything to do with or could be used in the criminal proceeding.

Terri filed this motion. Then refused to do what she needed to do to prove her fitness as a parent. She certainly could answer to many things that would not even be admissible ub a criminal matter. How these very personal things about mother/daughter relationship can be used in the criminal matter against Terri is not reasonable. She and her attorney do not want her to talk at all and that is not a 5th Amendment right.

Given that not saying something is used against her, saying something will definitely be used against her. I can't be disingenuous about what will happen if she testifies that her hair is red, let alone anything else.

It is the only thing she can do. Remain silent and not have anything she says used against her.

 

[Adrienne37]

I'm not quite sure why this is even being discussed any longer as it is quite obvious that Terri cares nothing about seeing baby K if it means that she might incriminate herself. Her lawyers dropped their motion so why is the continued discussion about this still taking place. How much plainer can it be written? People are trying to make excuses about why Terri did this and why Terri did that when it should be as plain as day that she CARES MORE FOR HERSELF THAN SHE DOES HER DAUGHTER. Does she need to post a Facebook message saying she doesn't care about baby K or walk around with a sign around her neck stating it? -all JMO-

 

[debs]

In this motion to dismiss, it is stated quite clearly she is quite concerned for her daughter's well being.

 

[AlexisFresca]

I'm not quite sure why this is even being discussed any longer as it is quite obvious that Terri cares nothing about seeing baby K if it means that she might incriminate herself. Her lawyers dropped their motion so why is the continued discussion about this still taking place. How much plainer can it be written? People are trying to make excuses about why Terri did this and why Terri did that when it should be as plain as day that she CARES MORE FOR HERSELF THAN SHE DOES HER DAUGHTER. Does she need to post a Facebook message saying she doesn't care about baby K or walk around with a sign around her neck stating it? -all JMO-

Thank you! I think 'period' is all I would add to this statement.

 

[Kimster]

I'm not quite sure why this is even being discussed any longer as it is quite obvious that Terri cares nothing about seeing baby K if it means that she might incriminate herself. Her lawyers dropped their motion so why is the continued discussion about this still taking place. How much plainer can it be written? People are trying to make excuses about why Terri did this and why Terri did that when it should be as plain as day that she CARES MORE FOR HERSELF THAN SHE DOES HER DAUGHTER. Does she need to post a Facebook message saying she doesn't care about baby K or walk around with a sign around her neck stating it? -all JMO-

It's being discussed because members want to discuss it. Let's get back on topic because discussing what members do and don't want to discuss isn't a discussion that we discuss.

:crazy: