2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[mmmagique]

Asking for fees isn't a decision the client makes, it is standard procedure. Naturally, the client can say "NO, the ex hubby who took my daughter and moved out should have no obligations at all, it's got to be my fault, and he shouldn't have to pay for making my life a living hell."

At which point the lawyer will say, "This is just standard procedure, don't worry about it," and indeed, she should not - fees are the least of the problems in this case where a little boy's life is at stake.

My opinion only

She honestly does have complete control over whether he requests fees or not. The lawyer can say whatever he likes, but she has the final say.

It is pretty sop, but in this particular case, it would be better if she avoided doing anything that makes her look even more cruel than she already does.

 

[Calliope]

He doesn't have to. I'm certain that he has the fortitude to speak for himself.

That, of course, is his choice.

 

[Calliope]

Again, Terri has an RO against her. An RO that can ONLy be modified IF Terri or Kai e requests that it be modified and then either motioning party would have to provide the judge with answers as to why Terri is now not a danger to her daughter based on the allegations contained in the RO. A mutual agreement between both parties is a moot point and would hold little weight in a proceeding where the judge has already determined that Terri IS a danger to baby K.

Yeah, they could have gotten Kaine to motion for the modification, but he would then have to explain why he has changed his mind about the allegations that led him to file for the RO. Assuming he hasn't, he nor his lawyer could assist Terri with what she needs to do to try and get visitation with K.

This is not a standard custody case where Terri canjust come in with Kaine's blessing and pictures of her and a happy K and get the order modified. Their attempts to try and get Kaine and his lawyer to do something that Terri and her lawyers have been unwilling to do to date seems like circumvention to me. Jmo

This isn't an attempt to have the RO dropped against her. Outside of any court-ordered supervised visitation, she is still under the same restrictions regarding contact and proximity to the baby.

"Circumvent" in this context implies to get around the law in some fashion. What she's doing is entirely legal. That's not "circumventing" anything.

 

[Calliope]

I don't think anyone has said it was illegal. I stand by my assertion that it was an attempt to circumvent the procedures that Terri and her lawyers have to follow in order to get the RO modified. I also believe that it would have been illegal for Kaine to agree to Any contact outside of a judge's ruling. That is in the RO. Both petitioner and respondent can be held accountable for not following the order. Jmo

*sigh*

Any agreement between the attorneys of the two parties involved would have then been taken before the judge saving the court (as I stated above) time, expense, headaches and aggravation, and then the judge would have made the final decision on whether or not to grant visitation as the two parties agreed.

 

[Calliope]

I am not an attorney, but I don't see how Terri can modify parenting time. She has no parenting time.

It would seem that this type of modification would apply when there is parenting time already established.

I am curious. Do people feel that Diane Downs should have been granted parenting time with her daughter?

What the heck does Diane Downs have to do with this topic?

Parenting time IS established in the RO. The parenting time is none. As far as "how Terri can modify parenting time", I posted the Oregon law that allows her to do so. That's how.

 

[Trident]

This case is anything but standard.

For Terri to be the de facto suspect in the disappearance of Kyron (her attorney's own words) and then have the gall to expect her husband to front her fees for her to contest the visitation portion of a Restraining Order--and to pay the fees for experts because Terri KNOWS that she'll incriminate herself if she speaks at the hearing--nothing but unmitigated gall.

You see it one way, I see it another... I believe that Terri is experiencing great satisfaction by knowing that she's sticking the knife in a little deeper with this request for visitation AND the expectation that Kaine should pay for her lawyer and expert fees.

I see it from the point of having had to incorporate the "other party pays costs" in almost all of the legal paperwork I executed for my boss. I don't see any two ways about it, but those who haven't worked in the legal system might, I really can't say.

My opinion only

 

[loves2bmom]

Not according to our resident attorney

I thought our resident attorney's were disagreeing a bit on the other thread about this matter but I don't think all of them have weighed in yet on this new request for supervised visitation.

 

[Calliope]

truth is, you can be the biggest skanky ho in the world and still get custody,not just visitation. Without showing that baby was abused or might be, she will get visitation. Then everyone will wring their hands when she takes off with her to costa rica. The system is broken!

The law provides that the Court arrange for supervised visitation if ordered.

This can be done by simply having them meet in an interrogation room, for example. Deputy stands at the door while Terri meets with baby. They can even videotape the entire thing.

She's not going to be taking off to anywhere under supervised visitation. That's the whole point of it being supervised.

 

[Calliope]

1. Terri has requested Kaine pay her divorce attorney bills.
2. In the motion, Bunch requests Kaine pay the cost of the motion should he choose to contest it.

Either way, Bunch is looking to Kaine for payment.

Didn't Kaine request for Terri to pay his attorney fees, too ?

 

[Calliope]

Lawyers are "employees" of their clients. Our lawyer may suggest things but we decide what in fact he does in our name.

I hardly think a woman who appears in string bikinis in contests and takes photographs of her "body parts" to send out to new acquaintances (and something "similar" to OTHER employees of hers) is too shy and retiring to take an active role in what ANOTHER employee of hes does on her behalf.

Who is saying Terri doesn't agree with the motion Bunch served to the Court???

 

[Calliope]

Nevertheless, some of us are revolted...seeing such a thing unfold before our eyes.

Too many monsters escape justice.

And too many innocents are trapped by it.

 

[Trident]

Regarding attorneys: there are as many different opinions as there are attorneys. The attorney's interpretation is dependent on his area of specialty, his expertise, his history, and especially his experience in Oregon state law. I do appreciate very much the opinions of attorneys who post at WS, but we must keep in mind that family law is the subject of intense debate among the legal community, and it would be wonderful if it could all be decided by one person's opinion.

EXACTLY, our laws are not chiseled in stone. The attorney who gives the best "interpretation" and/or (you add the words), will likely be the winner and some even make it into the law books.

What most here don't understand is the law in not necessarily about justice, but rather about the "interpretation" of the law. And, yeah, some "interpretations" are pretty whacked and bent.

My opinion only

 

[Calliope]

This Baby has had 4 months to adjust to her new surroundings. If Terri is too afraid to testify because it may "incriminate her"...IMO,she full well knows there is a strong chance she will face trial and then, permanent separation from Baby K.

How appallingly self-centered to re-insert herself into this child's life to only gratify HERSELF...to put this child through another long separation. To WHAT BENEFIT to the child? Four months have passed. Leave the Little One ALONE!

God willing, Kaine will marry again and find a woman who knows how to love a child who is not her own with all her heart...something IMO Terri could not do. And Baby K will never face the horrific situation little Kyron did....looking into the eyes of a"mom" he loved and trusted ans seeing the most evil malevolence.

Just my opinion, of course. That's why we are all here.

Do you really believe that child has lost all memory of her mother?

 

[Calliope]

Problem is - one man's common sense may not agree with another's. I believe that's why our justice system relies on evidence.

Bingo .

 

[Trident]

Do you really believe that child has lost all memory of her mother?

I don't believe a 3-4 month separation negates her memories of the mother who held and loved her since birth. Terri spent a lot more time with baby K than KH ever did, just count the hours of a SAHM.

 

[Calliope]

She honestly does have complete control over whether he requests fees or not. The lawyer can say whatever he likes, but she has the final say.

It is pretty sop, but in this particular case, it would be better if she avoided doing anything that makes her look even more cruel than she already does.

If I was an attorney, and had a client who second-guessed and overrode my expert advice and standards of protocol and procedure, I'd politely tell them to find themselves another attorney. Or go represent themselves. Either way.

 

[Herding Cats]

Didn't Kaine request for Terri to pay his attorney fees, too ?

Yes, he did. I was hoping someone would remember that, as I clearly do.

I think it's just what happens...one side says "this is our motion. If you want to fight it, you risk having to pay our fees. Think carefully." Ultimately, the judge would order who pays for what, once things get to his courtroom, I'm thinking, so it's more SOP and regular than not.

As for TH getting visitation...I think it's a good idea. It benefits Baby K, and that is what matters in this particular situation.

And I can't help but think that there is a lot of hypocracy in this situation; people were screaming bloody murder that TH didn't even try to see Baby, and now that she is, they're screaming bloody blue murder that she's trying. She has been tarred, feathered, and hung to dry without a court decision as to her guilt, without even being arrested, and there is nothing she can do which will change the minds of some folks. I am referring to no one in particular; just pointing out what I've seen happen several times...and it's definitely something that Bunch and Houze are paying close attention to - because that will support their claim that there is no fair trial to be had for their client, if she's arrested.

Because of that, I think she's just moving ahead with her life, and trying to pick up the pieces as best she can. Seeing her daughter is one way to do that...and I can't fault her in the least.

MOO, IMHO, JMO, and all that.

Best-
HC

 

[Calliope]

I thought our resident attorney's were disagreeing a bit on the other thread about this matter but I don't think all of them have weighed in yet on this new request for supervised visitation.

I'm referring specifically to the actions of Bunch's repeated attempts with Rackner for an agreement for supervised visitation.

I still hold that if he was doing something illegal or against the rules of procedure or "circumventing" the system in any way, she'd have jumped on it and filed on both him and Terri for doing so. There wouldn't have been "repeated" attempts, only one. Because she wouldn't have allowed it to go past that point. Since she's a well respected and competent civil attorney, as pointed out early in the thread.

 

[Calliope]

I don't believe a 3-4 month separation negates her memories of the mother who held and loved her since birth. Terri spent a lot more time with baby K than KH ever did, just count the hours of a SAHM.

More than 45 years later, I have specific and detailed memories of my mother from when I was baby K's age and only a slight bit older.

 

[mmmagique]

I see it from the point of having had to incorporate the "other party pays costs" in almost all of the legal paperwork I executed for my boss. I don't see any two ways about it, but those who haven't worked in the legal system might, I really can't say.

My opinion only

I have worked in the legal system, and yes, it almost always is included. This case is different than most cases and should be treated as such. (imo)