2010.07.03 Sheriff confirms Kyron last seen *inside* school

[CN2Souls]

If Tr said he saw Kyron and spoke with him after Terri left, are we to believe he lied or is mistaken? Because if that is the truth, then Terri is not the last person to see him. What are we to make of this? No one saw them leave together, and I am beginning to believe that is true. The comment that he was going to see the "cool electric project" gives me pause. Who brought Tr to school that day? Were they still around when Tr saw Kyron?

And I am sure the last person to really see Kyron isn't going to tell LE.

 

[DairyGirl]

I posted something several days ago in BeanE's "How to..." thread, and for me it's still relevant to this topic. The theory that TH took Kyron to school and then had him meet her later outside has a lot of holes in it for me. Here's a modified version of the thoughts I posted on that thread:

--------
It's basically a "now you see me/now you don't plan."

What if I wanted to take a child to a school where I plan to later abduct him and also remove suspicion from myself?

It seems that I’d need to accomplish 3 things in order to remove any suspicion of my involvement:

1. Ensure that I had plenty of witnesses who saw us both at the school prior to the start of class at 8:45.
2. Ensure that I had at least one witness see me leave the school without my child prior to 8:45.
3. Ensure that witnesses saw my child in the school AFTER I left so that I would not be accused of being the last person to see him.

So, I’m basically in the witness manipulation business to pull this off. How could I use the people at the expo to supply my alibi?

I’ve been thinking about the photos that TH took at the expo. More to the point, I’ve been thinking about the photos that weren’t taken (to my knowledge).

When I look at the photos TH took at the expo, they just don’t look like photos taken for the purpose of establishing an alibi. They look like photos someone would take to simply document an event in the life of a child whom they loved. If I was about to commit a crime and knew that the whereabouts of both me and my child were going to be examined, I’d make sure I had witnesses out the vuvuzela.

I’d take pictures that prominently feature other kids/parents/teachers in the background, especially adults. (Not pictures with people obscured in the background.) I’d hand my camera to a parent that I knew and ask her/him to take a picture of me with my child in front of the exhibit. I’d ask to see their child’s exhibit and take photos of them with their children in front of their exhibits. I’d also speak to people who knew me and strike up conversations that they would easily remember later if asked.

I’d also make a point of being seen leaving the school building alone. I wouldn’t risk leaving with my child, but would instruct my child to meet me outside later on. I’d linger near the most popular exit until a parent I knew was also leaving, and I’d strike up a conversation with that person on the way out so that they would also easily remember me leaving.

My overall point is, I don’t see the apparent lack of witnesses as an indication that TH was involved in Kyron's disappearance. I actually see the lack of photographs and witnesses as reason not to suspect TH. She would have had the opportunity to use the people around her to her advantage to establish her alibi and it doesn’t appear that she did that, IMO.

I think if TH did this she was counting on the fact that it was a busy day and out of the ordinary to not be noticed. I think her goal that day would have been to be an unnoticable as possible, not to call any attention to herself. I also think that if she did see anyone looking at her she probably would have called her plan off. Maybe she even did that on a prior occasion, if she did do this.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Desiree mentioned during the interviews on June 25 that Kyron does not see very well. Even with best possible correction, Kyron's vision might still not be accute enough to see things clearly at long distances. If you notice in the video where he is reading a report, he holds the notebook very close even though he is wearing his glasses. Speaking from personal experience as a visually-impaired individual), I would not have been able to clearly distinguish someone waving to me from 150 feet away even with my glasses on when I was a child (prior to contact lenses at age 12). jmo

But we still don't know if he had any impairment with his glasses on though BDE.

And as far as holding the notebook too close to his face I have a friend who is an elementary teacher and she says she has to go around the room and lower the books because the kids tend to raise them too high and too close to their face. Sort of like young kids want to be right up at the tv when they are watching it. He didn't seem to be having any problems with reading the notebook. In fact I thought he was a very good reader for his age.

I really think Kyron was fine with his glasses on but maybe if he was outside running and playing in his yard at home he may have been afraid he would lose them or break them.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think if TH did this she was counting on the fact that it was a busy day and out of the ordinary to not be noticed. I think her goal that day would have been to be an unnoticeable as possible, not to call any attention to herself. I also think that if she did see anyone looking at her she probably would have called her plan off. Maybe she even did that on a prior occasion, if she did do this.

I just don't know. It seems ridiculous to pick that day to me when so many people would be there that knew her. Teachers, parents, staff and other students and maybe some from the community if they attended.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

I know it is OT but I still totally think it was NOT premeditated if Terri did something to Kyron and I cannot explain it (or find a link ).

So I agree that the photos taken, etc, were not to set up an alibi as she did not know she would need one until something went wrong.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Back when her FB was public, she asked friends not to believe everything they heard in the media. Seems like she was on "control" mode also.

LOL! Sounds like she was right. This case as been chocked full of misinformation from so called unnamed sources.

I think she know the real information comes from LE only and not the media.

IMO

 

[CN2Souls]

BAU of the FBI was called in at 5:15pm on June 4, and that tells a lot in my book.
I have two brothers that work for our state BAU and They only get called in for very special “incidents” / “Situation” to quote Sheriff Dan Staton

 

[kbl8201]

i dont know whats real about this case other then kyrons out there somewhere.

other then that, the behavior of everyone from all 4 parents to LE itself has been bizarre.

the must frustrating agonizing case i've ever followed

 

[citigirl]

I just don't know. It seems ridiculous to pick that day to me when so many people would be there that knew her. Teachers, parents, staff and other students and maybe some from the community if they attended.

IMO

You've got to ask yourself why ANYONE would pick this day to grab a child. Especially someone who had to get the child outside without being seen.
I am a teacher, and I just can't see how this could be done.

In my opinion, which, I admit, doesn't match up to LE and the family asking Terry to cooperate, someone who works the school had to mastermind this plan. Pulled him in a closet or something.

I can't imagine a foolproof plan that would involve the child leaving the school unattended and getting into a car--without being seen.

 

[FORDANIEL]

OKAY,I have a thought,in the picture of Kyron's classroom,with the janitor passing by-there is a large garbage can,on wheels.Is it possible that Kyron was removed somehow
from the building,in on e of these garbage cans?.And remember that he was not noted to be missing until after the afternoon bus,did not return him home,what time of day is the trash picked up from the school,and taken to the landfill?Cafeteria lunches can sure generate a lot of trash.Just my thoughts.

 

[Lavender]

I think if TH did this she was counting on the fact that it was a busy day and out of the ordinary to not be noticed. I think her goal that day would have been to be an unnoticable as possible, not to call any attention to herself. I also think that if she did see anyone looking at her she probably would have called her plan off. Maybe she even did that on a prior occasion, if she did do this.

I see what you're saying, but 4 weeks later we're still debating who saw him last, and where, and when, and whether she left alone or not. And if this was planned, I think she would have anticipated needing a solid witness who could say they saw her leave alone and there doesn't seem to be one.

I also have bright red hair and the thought of being unnoticed in any setting is foreign to me. Something redheads kind of grow up with I think.

 

[liz b.]

If this is true, as LE did state rather definitively a few weeks ago, then there is no accomplice, no hiding place, no happy ending. If Terri saw him last, period, not saw him last in the school, then she is "it" and poor Kyron is gone.

Yes, that's what it would mean. I come very close to believing she did hurt him,recoil with the horror of that, think someone else abducted him, move away from the unlikelihood of that,go back to she must have hurt him.... What a strange case...

All JMO

 

[awakewriter]

OKAY,I have a thought,in the picture of Kyron's classroom,with the janitor passing by-there is a large garbage can,on wheels.Is it possible that Kyron was removed somehow
from the building,in on e of these garbage cans?.And remember that he was not noted to be missing until after the afternoon bus,did not return him home,what time of day is the trash picked up from the school,and taken to the landfill?Cafeteria lunches can sure generate a lot of trash.Just my thoughts.

This is interesting.

I think it's entirely possible Kyron did not leave the school on his own two feet, of his own free will. It is quite possible he was hidden and quieted somehow.

Or, of course, it's possible he was not conscious when he left the school.

 

[FORDANIEL]

Double click on photo to enlarge.
http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/kyron%20horman/photos-11.html

See the can is quite large.I know my 7yr.old grandson would fit.There must be an elevator,to get these out of the building,to the dumpster.

 

[just]

I see what you're saying, but 4 weeks later we're still debating who saw him last, and where, and when, and whether she left alone or not. And if this was planned, I think she would have anticipated needing a solid witness who could say they saw her leave alone and there doesn't seem to be one.

I also have bright red hair and the thought of being unnoticed in any setting is foreign to me. Something redheads kind of grow up with I think.

I agree, and as I posted before, I think someone did see her/him leaving and the LE hasn't stated that to the public yet. JMHO.

 

[cluciano63]

I keep going back to LE saying Terri was last to see him...as if they KNOW that. How could they know that?

 

[Emma Peel]

Lavendar, loved your post! I totally agree with your witness manipulation plan. (a little scary, actually )

I wrote something on the "how to thread" as well.

The gist of mine was:

If you tell the child to meet you and you leave the building, you have lost control of who your child talks to and who witnesses your child.

If you tell the child to go to the car first, you've lost control of any encounters in the parking lot.

My conclusion was, if Terri was actually this smart, to plan this do-it-yourself faux school-abduction of Kyron ... she'd be smart enough to abandon it and figure something else out with fewer witness variables.

Actually, I have recently concluded that anyone who lackadaisically answers her door and stands on their porch and yaps it up with the WW reporter while under investigation for Kyron's disappearance and is in denial about having her child taken away from her - is not smart enough to plan this.

Lonely, perhaps, but not smart.

IMO, It could turn out we have a nervous-breakdown / reckless behavior / mental competence thing on our hands.

With Kaine abruptly leaving with the baby on Monday, I have to wonder if he was aware that there was something amiss mentally or emotionally with Terri, but had no idea that Terri's issues could result on harm to the children.

 

[mtnone]

I don't get hung up on the 150 foot thing, or the stairwells, because words are so easily misquoted, and as others have said, TH wasn't the one that said them to us. I am horrible with distances and wouldn't know 150 feet from 80 if I was paid to.

I think that if TH had nothing to do with Kyron being missing in any way, what she has told the LE about that morning is the truth.

I have recently decided to forget what the young T. said, and his grandmother said because: We have not gotten any confirmation of that info and two things make no sense.
One is why would Kyron have waited until the bell rang at 8:45 to go look at a project when they were all going to split into groups and go look at them all? Two, is why would the sub/teacher helper have been so upset ("calm down, calm down") to find herself one short, yet no one in the first few days of us actually being told anything, say that he was noted as being there prior to the group of 6 going to look at projects, and third, ( can't count) if the teacher that said he was getting a drink was the same one that thought he had a doctors appt, well, that doesn't make any sense at all.

What does make sense is that after the actual class started at about 10am, the regular teacher took role, marked Kyron absent and said nothing because she thought he had that appointment.

Me thinks young T. is a teller of tall tales.

So, that takes me back to about 8:15 am, give or take a few. When the PTA lady saw TH and KH together and pictures being taken. There is a shot of his friend, which means he saw them too.

If TH is innocent, that leaves anytime after that, or some time later if she and Kyron looked at a few projects together, then she said her goodbye and left. The perp makes their move....

If TH is involved either getting him out of the school, working with someone else, handing off, whatever, I don't hold the time to anything after that 8:15ish mark.

Which means that there is not much worry of the school calling even if they did notice him gone. They probably have her cell number. No role until at least 9ish, if not 10am and then some time before a call, she can say, what are you talking about I was just there with him..... I will come right back, and could have done so. if whatever was done to/with Kyron was done between 8:15 and about 9:15am. You can do a lot in an hour, with a plan.

If, and I say IF since we have many reports but no word from LE if any pings or anything else says she was not where she said she was, wouldn't that make a lot of sense if that IF was in the 8:15 to 8:45 ish time frame that we understand she told them that first day? That is a big problem, no matter what her 'errands' turn out to be or proved. That is still a huge problem.

And on that, for our charming Ms. Peel: (sorry, this is the best link I could find)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...child’s+whereabouts,&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us



True? Not true? We don't know, many things have been reported that have turned out not to be true. If true, is this what LE told Kaine making him do what he did?

I think without any more info it is wrong to get too caught up in the up/down staircase, this word, that word....etc... What little we have been told we were told very early in the case. Things are found out, proved, or disproved. People get things wrong. How many people, let alone children look at their watches every minute or two? I don't even wear one. And, the LE might not have even gotten all the fliers back after they sent out the Email asking for the rest, they said they would come in person for those that don't, it's summer, people leave. Until they do have each and every one, I suppose they would feel comfortable saying they haven't confirmed, or can't comment, or whatever.

It seems to me that those these can be the trees that keep from trying so darn hard to see the forest on the other side of them.

At this point, I am on that fence of TH, directly or indirectly.

 

[cluciano63]

Emma, I too think that rumors of Terri's intelligence have been grossly overstated.

 

[Lavender]

Lavendar, loved your post! I totally agree with your witness manipulation plan. (a little scary, actually )

~snipped

Didn't mean to worry anyone! I'm actually quite shy, law-abiding, and have no children.