2010.07.19 Defense is Investigating George

[Numbers]

It sure would explain a lot about the behavior of this family if one of them was the father though. Could an uncle or a cousin be the father? Caylee was conceived around the holidays when peeps usually see their relatives. I'd bet a good amount of money that the A's are hiding something.

The only thing the Anthonys tried - and failed - to hide is the fact that their daughter is a <very sexually active person>.

Text to Amy (paraphrased because it's late and I'm too lazy to find the link) "I had me some fireman last night." This chick categorizes her conquests by profession!

Ho ho ho. And I ain't talking Christmas.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Numbers, iirc I think that was Amy who texted that to KC.
In today's day and age a lot of girls are <very sexually active>' and so are a lot of men.
It takes two to tango.

I'm in a GA mood (aggresive) and would like to punch him out (I've never punched anyone). For some reason I feel hateful towards his sickening excuses. I'd better sign off now before I get in trouble.

Night all.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^ I agree with the idea that they're hiding something.....can you imagine all the family secrets that have been hidden over the years in that family? All of Casey's bad behaviour, all the fights, all of the nasty things Cindy said to her daughter, all the sick head games she played with her over the years, and all the retaliations?

I think they're hiding heaps....just not that one (and sorry to be abrupt in my reply, you obviously put a great deal of research into your post and it was interesting and educational).

I really wish George would split from Cindy/Casey (or should we enmesh their names and call them Candy) and start speaking up for Caylee, but I think if he was going to do that he would've by now....but where there's life, there's hope I guess.

 

[tragco]

Hi, Woe.be.gone!

You put a lot of time into all this, I know I did the same thing with DNA recently in a JonBenet discussion (not about alleles, but about the errors that can occur with the different ways of obtaining DNA results.)

This quote from your post shows why LA was ruled out as the father: "More than two obligate paternal alleles absent is evidence against paternity."

For the sake of brevity, I'm just going to say look at #1, #2, which will correspond to the numbers in beween your slashes in the first post.

#1) Caylee did not inherit a paternal allele- for this to happen she would HAVE to have shown 1 of three results (since a person gets one from each parent) -15-, -19-, or 15,19. She showed 14,15.

I can see where you might at first say, hey, the 15 could have come from LA, but no it couldn't. Why? Look at the only three choices that would happen with a KC, LA combo: -15-, -19-, or 15,19. Caylee is none of these three. See? You have to look at all the results that could happen with the two people. If the child does not show any of these, then there is no paternal allele inherited (or there is an anomaly, which doesn't happen often).

#3) In order to have inherited a paternal allele here, Caylee would have to show as -20-, -25-, or 20,25. She shows 20, 24. (same deal as with #1, no match)

#5) No paternal allele here. Caylee has 12, 13. LA has 14 only.

#6) This one is easy. Both LA and KC are -30-. Caylee would have to show a -30- to have inherited a paternal allele in this instance. She shows 28,30.

#7) KC and her brother once again each have 2 of the same. 14,17. Only choices of inheritance are -14-, -17-, 14,17. Caylee has 14,16.

I'll just stop here, because we already have 5 cases where a paternal allele is NOT inherited.

Even accounting for the occasional oddity, as you see in one place only in #2 with LA, I think you see where I am going. I already found 5 cases where the paternal allele is absent. The statement is "More than two obligate paternal alleles absent is evidence against paternity."

What you would tend to see, if incest occurred, would be a whole lot more of Caylee having just 1 number only. This is because brothers and sisters are likely to share the same combination, and in any case where they have the same combination, the child would be more likely to show 1 number. That's why you read that you would see a large number of recessive genes.

Sorry to go on so long, but I did want to respond to show there is proof in your post it didn't happen. I am sure it was just a misunderstanding; this rumor though, I have to quelch it. Please, please don't think I am trying to be difficult. I can't tell you how many times I have misread or completely misunderstood here I hope the response made sense too, LOL.

If I also have it wrong, someone jump on in and swim in the Anthony gene pool.... hey? where'd everybody go?....come back!! We have Kool-Aid!?

Oh, yes, keeping it in line with the thread. GA and LA I am sure are being "investigated", but not because of the results of this test. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Sun]

Yes, the DNA results clearly show that neither Lee nor George could have been Caylee's father. What the DNA results do not show us, is who Cindy may have "thought" was Caylee's father.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, the DNA results clearly show that neither Lee nor George could have been Caylee's father. What the DNA results do not show us, is who Cindy may have "thought" was Caylee's father.

And that must clearly "bug the heck" out of Cindy. jmo

 

[OneLostGrl]

It sure would explain a lot about the behavior of this family if one of them was the father though. Could an uncle or a cousin be the father? Caylee was conceived around the holidays when peeps usually see their relatives. I'd bet a good amount of money that the A's are hiding something.

I understand people want a reason, an event, a "bad thing" that happened that will explain this "family's" strangeness. But really, they are your typical personality disordered family. They don't need secrets, they act that way because they have no minds of their own.. everything is about protecting and placating the controller, the manipulator (which at one time was Cindy but then became Casey as she got older). Cindy is personality disordered- it's clearly been handed down to Casey and IMO probably to an extent Lee (though I think Lee is a hostage too, doing all his mothers rescuing and dirty work) and George is their hostage (was possibly his own mothers hostage and rescuer when HE was growing up which made him prime for Cindy's picking) who steals, lies, cheats and doesn't hold a job as a passive-aggressive form of "payback". The children learn the behaviors and coping skills from the parents and learn to look out for only themselves at a pretty early age. It's no "family", it's more a form of Stockholm syndrome. Usually that's the secret in this type of "family".. the fine line between their love and hatred for one another. Their SELVES are the secret!

JMO

 

[Just Jayla]

Our granchildren have lived with us on three seperate occasions it is an easy slip up..

My mother has called herself mommy to my daughter-then laughed at herself....didn't make me want to hurt my child out of spite.

 

[Just Jayla]

I understand people want a reason, an event, a "bad thing" that happened that will explain this "family's" strangeness. But really, they are your typical personality disordered family. They don't need secrets, they act that way because they have no minds of their own.. everything is about protecting and placating the controller, the manipulator (which at one time was Cindy but then became Casey as she got older). Cindy is personality disordered- it's clearly been handed down to Casey and IMO probably to an extent Lee (though I think Lee is a hostage too, doing all his mothers rescuing and dirty work) and George is their hostage (was possibly his own mothers hostage and rescuer when HE was growing up which made him prime for Cindy's picking) who steals, lies, cheats and doesn't hold a job as a passive-aggressive form of "payback". The children learn the behaviors and coping skills from the parents and learn to look out for only themselves at a pretty early age. It's no "family", it's more a form of Stockholm syndrome. Usually that's the secret in this type of "family".. the fine line between their love and hatred for one another. Their SELVES are the secret!

JMO

BBM-This is what is backfiring on GA right now-He has made himself appear the weak link, the oddball, the guy that sits in front of all day....Mr.Mason will parlay that into child molester, recluse, prone to criminal activity, etc.

Same to some extent with Lee Skywalker-but LA helped LE and, in his own backwards sort of way, John Morgan, and he put a lot out there in the Lazzaro tapes. That could end up being LA's lifeline when the defense tries to aim at him, the state prolly won't let that fly, just as they nipped the JG target in the bud by releasing the Jesse files.

 

[OneLostGrl]

BBM-This is what is backfiring on GA right now-He has made himself appear the weak link, the oddball, the guy that sits in front of all day....Mr.Mason will parlay that into child molester, recluse, prone to criminal activity, etc.

Same to some extent with Lee Skywalker-but LA helped LE and, in his own backwards sort of way, John Morgan, and he put a lot out there in the Lazzaro tapes. That could end up being LA's lifeline when the defense tries to aim at him, the state prolly won't let that fly, just as they nipped the JG target in the bud by releasing the Jesse files.

I agree. That and his lashing out. Everyone else can control their emotions (because they have none) unless people disagree with their version of events. But poor George screams at the media to shut up, that the "body in the trunk was not his grandaughter" and then the biggie.. the crying out for help suicide gesture. I wish he'd just do the right thing and tell the truth for everyones sake.. mostly, at this point and for the rest of his life, his own!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hi, Woe.be.gone!

You put a lot of time into all this, I know I did the same thing with DNA recently in a JonBenet discussion (not about alleles, but about the errors that can occur with the different ways of obtaining DNA results.)

This quote from your post shows why LA was ruled out as the father: "More than two obligate paternal alleles absent is evidence against paternity."

For the sake of brevity, I'm just going to say look at #1, #2, which will correspond to the numbers in beween your slashes in the first post.

#1) Caylee did not inherit a paternal allele- for this to happen she would HAVE to have shown 1 of three results (since a person gets one from each parent) -15-, -19-, or 15,19. She showed 14,15.



I can see where you might at first say, hey, the 15 could have come from LA, but no it couldn't. Why? Look at the only three choices that would happen with a KC, LA combo: -15-, -19-, or 15,19. Caylee is none of these three. See? You have to look at all the results that could happen with the two people. If the child does not show any of these, then there is no paternal allele inherited (or there is an anomaly, which doesn't happen often).

#3) In order to have inherited a paternal allele here, Caylee would have to show as -20-, -25-, or 20,25. She shows 20, 24. (same deal as with #1, no match)

#5) No paternal allele here. Caylee has 12, 13. LA has 14 only.

#6) This one is easy. Both LA and KC are -30-. Caylee would have to show a -30- to have inherited a paternal allele in this instance. She shows 28,30.

#7) KC and her brother once again each have 2 of the same. 14,17. Only choices of inheritance are -14-, -17-, 14,17. Caylee has 14,16.

I'll just stop here, because we already have 5 cases where a paternal allele is NOT inherited.

Even accounting for the occasional oddity, as you see in one place only in #2 with LA, I think you see where I am going. I already found 5 cases where the paternal allele is absent. The statement is "More than two obligate paternal alleles absent is evidence against paternity."

What you would tend to see, if incest occurred, would be a whole lot more of Caylee having just 1 number only. This is because brothers and sisters are likely to share the same combination, and in any case where they have the same combination, the child would be more likely to show 1 number. That's why you read that you would see a large number of recessive genes.

Sorry to go on so long, but I did want to respond to show there is proof in your post it didn't happen. I am sure it was just a misunderstanding; this rumor though, I have to quelch it. Please, please don't think I am trying to be difficult. I can't tell you how many times I have misread or completely misunderstood here I hope the response made sense too, LOL.

If I also have it wrong, someone jump on in and swim in the Anthony gene pool.... hey? where'd everybody go?....come back!! We have Kool-Aid!?

Oh, yes, keeping it in line with the thread. GA and LA I am sure are being "investigated", but not because of the results of this test. Just wanted to make that clear.

Yes I know. That was the purpose that I posted it. People kept saying 'someone who knows said that there could be no way that George ...' but they never posted an explanation or a link to the proof.

When I first joined WS, posters would ask for proof or links to important, proven information. They would not simply take someone's word for fact because we know there are peeps who have ulterior motives for what and why they post what they do. I figured since the FBI released the info, it would be okay to try to figure it out for myself. When I managed to do that, although I'm not claiming that I've interpreted everything correctly, I thought I would post it in case anybody else would like to get an idea of how the DNA is determined.

I'll admit, I was/am disappointed regarding the results. I had myself convinced that incest might be the explanation for their odd behavior but I realized I was in the minority which is why I wanted to see for myself. I'm stubborn I guess. If I posted the correct numbers, it looks like incest is not the case. If it had been true, it would help me wrap my brain around the way this family acts and relates to one another (or doesn't). :crazy:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I understand people want a reason, an event, a "bad thing" that happened that will explain this "family's" strangeness. But really, they are your typical personality disordered family. They don't need secrets, they act that way because they have no minds of their own.. everything is about protecting and placating the controller, the manipulator (which at one time was Cindy but then became Casey as she got older). Cindy is personality disordered- it's clearly been handed down to Casey and IMO probably to an extent Lee (though I think Lee is a hostage too, doing all his mothers rescuing and dirty work) and George is their hostage (was possibly his own mothers hostage and rescuer when HE was growing up which made him prime for Cindy's picking) who steals, lies, cheats and doesn't hold a job as a passive-aggressive form of "payback". The children learn the behaviors and coping skills from the parents and learn to look out for only themselves at a pretty early age. It's no "family", it's more a form of Stockholm syndrome. Usually that's the secret in this type of "family".. the fine line between their love and hatred for one another. Their SELVES are the secret!

JMO

:banghead: Thanks OLG. Prior to reading your post, you'll see I posted what you've said above - I want a reason, I want a reason! :banghead: You hit the nail on the head.

That must be some mighty attempt at control to get people to be this uncooperative with each other though. Does that make any sense? How does/can anyone work themselves out of this maze? I think it's too late for the A's. Sad.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes, the DNA results clearly show that neither Lee nor George could have been Caylee's father. What the DNA results do not show us, is who Cindy may have "thought" was Caylee's father.

Will you expand on that please? Are you suggesting that CA may have thought GA or Lee were the father too?

 

[Ada]

^ I agree with the idea that they're hiding something.....can you imagine all the family secrets that have been hidden over the years in that family? All of Casey's bad behaviour, all the fights, all of the nasty things Cindy said to her daughter, all the sick head games she played with her over the years, and all the retaliations?

I think they're hiding heaps....just not that one (and sorry to be abrupt in my reply, you obviously put a great deal of research into your post and it was interesting and educational).

I really wish George would split from Cindy/Casey (or should we enmesh their names and call them Candy) and start speaking up for Caylee, but I think if he was going to do that he would've by now....but where there's life, there's hope I guess.

One thing they appear to be hiding, that I would like to know more about, is "is this like last time?"

 

[Paintr]

Will you expand on that please? Are you suggesting that CA may have thought GA or Lee were the father too?

Wouldn't that have been a shock for Cindy? Imagine if she believed that George was Caylee's father for years. KC did say that she told Cindy about the abuse. I can't believe that Cindy would come right out and ask. What if she punished George for this for years only to see the proof from the tests that it just wasn't so. Wow!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

One thing they appear to be hiding, that I would like to know more about, is "is this like last time?"

I always wondered if this related to the week she and Caylee stayed at Ricardo's, and if there was more to that story...

 

[Sun]

Will you expand on that please? Are you suggesting that CA may have thought GA or Lee were the father too?

I'm suggesting that we really don't know what Cindy may have thought. There were signs in the jail visitation videos that make me believe that Cindy was jealous of the relationship that Casey had with her father. If Cindy did mistakenly believe something, it could explain some of Cindy's behavior.

 

[Aghast]

Yes I know. That was the purpose that I posted it. People kept saying 'someone who knows said that there could be no way that George ...' but they never posted an explanation or a link to the proof.

When I first joined WS, posters would ask for proof or links to important, proven information. They would not simply take someone's word for fact because we know there are peeps who have ulterior motives for what and why they post what they do. I figured since the FBI released the info, it would be okay to try to figure it out for myself. When I managed to do that, although I'm not claiming that I've interpreted everything correctly, I thought I would post it in case anybody else would like to get an idea of how the DNA is determined.

I'll admit, I was/am disappointed regarding the results. I had myself convinced that incest might be the explanation for their odd behavior but I realized I was in the minority which is why I wanted to see for myself. I'm stubborn I guess. If I posted the correct numbers, it looks like incest is not the case. If it had been true, it would help me wrap my brain around the way this family acts and relates to one another (or doesn't). :crazy:

I don't post here often but I try to read as much as possible. All of your work is very much appreciated. I feel the same way you do. I don't think we'll ever understand what they do or how they think. First and foremost we can't imagine not demanding that the person who killed our granddaughter be made to pay for this crime. They claim their precious princess isn't guilty yet they have not so much as even expressed a tiny bit of anger towards whoever they think did murder that baby. Cindy's, " I...I...I... still think she's alive", comment was beyond weak. If it wasn't for the subject matter is would be right out of a skit from Saturday night live. Too bad she is so narcissistic that she doesn't even realize how ridiculous she looks every single time she opens her mouth. I've yet to hear one intelligent comment come out of the one who Lee claims has a mind like a steel trap.
Bwaaaa ha ha ha, mind like a steel trap. that's a hoot!

 

[affinity]

Yes I know. That was the purpose that I posted it. People kept saying 'someone who knows said that there could be no way that George ...' but they never posted an explanation or a link to the proof.

When I first joined WS, posters would ask for proof or links to important, proven information. They would not simply take someone's word for fact because we know there are peeps who have ulterior motives for what and why they post what they do. I figured since the FBI released the info, it would be okay to try to figure it out for myself. When I managed to do that, although I'm not claiming that I've interpreted everything correctly, I thought I would post it in case anybody else would like to get an idea of how the DNA is determined.

I'll admit, I was/am disappointed regarding the results. I had myself convinced that incest might be the explanation for their odd behavior but I realized I was in the minority which is why I wanted to see for myself. I'm stubborn I guess. If I posted the correct numbers, it looks like incest is not the case. If it had been true, it would help me wrap my brain around the way this family acts and relates to one another (or doesn't). :crazy:

Woe, (I bolded your statement above)...I understand completely. I, too, was very surprised that the answer did not point to GA or LA. I have written about it many times, there was incest in my family (not me) and the dynamics of the Anthonys is/was very similar to my experience in my family (lying "about nothing" tops the list). When you grow up where there is a "big secret" there are all manner of smoke and mirrors that makes it so no one will divulge it. Eventually the family just lies as a matter of course. The end result is a family like the Anthonys who have the audacity to lie with straight faces as if what they are saying is absolutely true. There are answers for why the A's are all the way they are. The incest angle would have explained most everything, and especially KC's inability to authentically care about Caylee. Some Mothers, like mine, are able to operate as pretty good Mothers even though they have been violated by someone close during their formative years. Others, no. Incest would have put the Anthony's abberant behavior into a neat package for us. I still think they are hiding something major.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't post here often but I try to read as much as possible. All of your work is very much appreciated. I feel the same way you do. I don't think we'll ever understand what they do or how they think. First and foremost we can't imagine not demanding that the person who killed our granddaughter be made to pay for this crime. They claim their precious princess isn't guilty yet they have not so much as even expressed a tiny bit of anger towards whoever they think did murder that baby. Cindy's, " I...I...I... still think she's alive", comment was beyond weak. If it wasn't for the subject matter is would be right out of a skit from Saturday night live. Too bad she is so narcissistic that she doesn't even realize how ridiculous she looks every single time she opens her mouth. I've yet to hear one intelligent comment come out of the one who Lee claims has a mind like a steel trap.
Bwaaaa ha ha ha, mind like a steel trap. that's a hoot!

Her mind being a steel trap is probably right in a way Lee probably can't even exactly pinpoint. Their minds are steel traps to the "injustices" done them. They remember every time you let 'em down, forgot something that was important to them (though it's just fine if they forget something that's important to you!) lied to them, hurt their feelings, didn't agree with their vesion of events, made them look foolish to outsiders, etc etc. They call 'em the "family historians" and they hold on to every little grudge and forever shove them in the face of every person who ever "wronged" them and use them as an excuse to wrong you right back- for the rest of your life.

Ohh the borderline family, such fun! :banghead: