2010.1.25 The Check Fraud Case Guilty Plea

[knt]

Bill Sheaffer's discussion of the Fraud case strategy. It is a classic!
http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/

Brilliant!!! I'm so glad he waited till after the fact to post it!

 

[knt]

Everytime that man opens his mouth I think parts of his brain fall out. JMO

(respectfully snipped)

:floorlaugh: Great visual LC!

 

[JBean]

LOL, if baez had done as Schaeffer describes, i don't think the descriptors "classic and brilliant" would be the the the words most would choose to describe it.

Have to admit it is funny that when baez uses a delay tactic available to him and his client he is classified as a lousy lawyer and abusing the system by causing delays. But when his client actually pleads guilty to a crime she comitted, accepts the responsibility and works a plea that will work against her in the scheme of things,then he becomes careless to not "use" the system in the way that Schaeffer describes by being able to stall the conviction. I am no baez fan nor am I a KC fan but jiminy we cannot have it both ways.
jmho

 

[knt]

LOL, if baez had done as Schaeffer describes, i don't think the descriptors "classic and brilliant" would be the the the words most would choose to describe it.

Have to admit it is funny that when baez uses a delay tactic available to him and his client he is classified as a lousy lawyer and abusing the system by causing delays. But when his client actually pleads guilty to a crime she comitted, accepts the responsibility and works a plea that will work against her in the scheme of things,then he becomes careless to not "use" the system in the way that Schaeffer describes by being able to stall the conviction. I am no baez fan nor am I a KC fan but jiminy we cannot have it both ways.
jmho

I understand your point, but I believe the difference is that Baez is criticized for moves that reek of incompetence and unprofessionalism. BS's idea seems like solid "by the book" lawyering. At least that's my reaction.

 

[JBean]

I understand your point, but I believe the difference is that Baez is criticized for moves that reek of incompetence and unprofessionalism. BS's idea seems like solid "by the book" lawyering. At least that's my reaction.

So, if Baez followed this "by the book" lawyering and made sure those felonies were not on KC's record for her murder trial, do you think most would give him props for being clever and smart in finding a way to circumvent those possibly aggravating factors?

 

[ZsaZsa]

LOL, if baez had done as Schaeffer describes, i don't think the descriptors "classic and brilliant" would be the the the words most would choose to describe it.

Have to admit it is funny that when baez uses a delay tactic available to him and his client he is classified as a lousy lawyer and abusing the system by causing delays. But when his client actually pleads guilty to a crime she comitted, accepts the responsibility and works a plea that will work against her in the scheme of things,then he becomes careless to not "use" the system in the way that Schaeffer describes by being able to stall the conviction. I am no baez fan nor am I a KC fan but jiminy we cannot have it both ways.
jmho

I don't think he deserves any kudos though,because his client finally did what was inevitable. It's not like she stood up and faced the music out of conscience, she did only what she could no longer delay doing. BS points out that she could have done that in the course of a trial and still avoided having the felony on her record at the time of the murder trial. Wasn't that what all the delay was about? They tried to get the fraud trial delayed until after the Murder precisely for that reason - that didn't work and the most obvious way to avoid it didn 't even occur to him. I hope Baez reads BS blog page tonight!
Sweet!

 

[LambChop]

Maybe money is the issue.

 

[JBean]

I don't think he deserves any kudos though,because his client finally did what was inevitable. It's not like she stood up and faced the music out of conscience, she did only what she could no longer delay doing. BS points out that she could have done that in the course of a trial and still avoided having the felony on her record at the time of the murder trial. Wasn't that what all the delay was about? They tried to get the fraud trial delayed until after the Murder precisely for that reason - that didn't work and the most obvious way to avoid it didn 't even occur to him. I hope Baez reads BS blog page tonight!
Sweet!

I think Baez knew that option was available to KC, it is not a terribly sophisticated suggestion and is probably lawyer 101. Perhaps they weighed out the risks and felt that having KC own up to her mistakes and accept responsibility was a better way to go and would make her more popular LOL.But in reality i don't think any of us know why KC stood up and faced the music instead of stalling and appealing as BS suggests she should have.

I honestly have no idea and don't mean to be defending Baez, But if Baez posted a blog saying exactly what BS said, it would probaly be full of insulting comments KWIM?

 

[capps]

I think Baez knew that option was available to KC, it is not a terribly sophisticated suggestion and is probably lawyer 101. Perhaps they weighed out the risks and felt that having KC own up to her mistakes and accept responsibility was a better way to go and would make her more popular LOL.But in reality i don't think any of us know why KC stood up and faced the music instead of stalling and appealing as BS suggests she should have.

I honestly have no idea and don't mean to be defending Baez, But if Baez posted a blog saying exactly what BS said, it would probaly be full of insulting comments KWIM?

I KWYM JBean. :innocent:

 

[JBean]

I KWYM JBean. :innocent:

heehee hey Capps. I can always count on you.

 

[tweety933]

Perhaps they were testing the waters for how sympathetic the judge would be if she plead guilty. Maybe they would (depending on his reaction) consider taking the plea to the judge himself rather than go to trial on the murder trial as well.

Hummmm, How fair was it for JS to split the baby (Solemon style), and would he do the same in the murder trial?

 

[kushka]

I think Baez knew that option was available to KC, it is not a terribly sophisticated suggestion and is probably lawyer 101. Perhaps they weighed out the risks and felt that having KC own up to her mistakes and accept responsibility was a better way to go and would make her more popular LOL.But in reality i don't think any of us know why KC stood up and faced the music instead of stalling and appealing as BS suggests she should have.

I think the reason is that the defense has given up. There only hope is to try to find someone else that could have possibly done it, and raise a little doubt so that SA may start to believe it is not an easy win and that the SA will thus allow them a decent plea deal. If SA does not the Baez and co. will do the same as they did for the check fraud,wait to plea directly to judge on the first day of the trail

 

[tweety933]

I'll bet that Baez mis-read the judge's "leniency" toward his previous attempts at lawyering (via motions, argument, etc.), as being an emotional softy, and thought that "that" might translate into a more lenient sentence for Casey.

 

[Mystic]

I think Baez knew that option was available to KC, it is not a terribly sophisticated suggestion and is probably lawyer 101. Perhaps they weighed out the risks and felt that having KC own up to her mistakes and accept responsibility was a better way to go and would make her more popular LOL.But in reality i don't think any of us know why KC stood up and faced the music instead of stalling and appealing as BS suggests she should have.

I honestly have no idea and don't mean to be defending Baez, But if Baez posted a blog saying exactly what BS said, it would probaly be full of insulting comments KWIM?

Yes, many would probably be angered if Baez had used this option yet at least he would have (tongue in cheek) appeared to be using some good lawyering skills for a change.

I was pondering BS's blog entry of holding up a conviction 12 -18 months and what was said at trial about how long it could be before the Murder Trial commences... and wonder if they didn't go this route since they wouldn't be able to hold it up long enough and Casey would have ended up going to trial as a felon anyhow.

 

[The World According]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally caught that too. What was that all about? I hadn't seen anything mentioned anywhere about it......but I find it curious that he would make a statement like that on camera..........or do I?

I say it all the time, but I mean it....you just can't make this stuff up. I joke a lot about Baez, but sometimes I honestly feel a little sad for him. It would be great for him to be in a large law firm with senior partners to mentor him and proof read his motions and to kibitz over his shoulder. I spit my pop all over my computer when he was inviting Amy to contact Casey through his office. This is the same judge that already had the bar investigate him once....doesn't he want to pretend to pay attention to the judge's ruling? Did he have that little soundbite rehearsed and decided to go with it, regardless or does he suffer from ADH? God bless him , it was a classic.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think Baez knew that option was available to KC, it is not a terribly sophisticated suggestion and is probably lawyer 101. Perhaps they weighed out the risks and felt that having KC own up to her mistakes and accept responsibility was a better way to go and would make her more popular LOL.But in reality i don't think any of us know why KC stood up and faced the music instead of stalling and appealing as BS suggests she should have.

I honestly have no idea and don't mean to be defending Baez, But if Baez posted a blog saying exactly what BS said, it would probaly be full of insulting comments KWIM?

I suspect it's because the only thing consistant about JoseB is his lack of "lawyering" skills. IOW, If he did it it has to have been by accident and not a plan because clearly he just aint that smart .

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am with you here. I was kind of surprised that she extended herself as much as she did.
In the scheme of things this apology means very little, but I don't doubt she is sorry that she ripped off Amy...very sorry.

It's been my experience that sometimes part of a plea bargain is giving a public (in court) apology to the victim of your crime.

 

[denjet]

Yes, many would probably be angered if Baez had used this option yet at least he would have (tongue in cheek) appeared to be using some good lawyering skills for a change.

I was pondering BS's blog entry of holding up a conviction 12 -18 months and what was said at trial about how long it could be before the Murder Trial commences... and wonder if they didn't go this route since they wouldn't be able to hold it up long enough and Casey would have ended up going to trial as a felon anyhow.

I was wondering that too Mystic ... Maybe Baez needs to concentrate on delaying the big one, and figured there was no way he would be able to delay the fraud trial past it ... They ended up with a better outcome than going to trial ... but I really think Baez thought he could get the judge to withhold adjudication on all counts until after the trial ... too bad ... even KC's emotional apology meant squat ... I think KC was surprised and disappointed that it didn't work !

 

[denjet]

I say it all the time, but I mean it....you just can't make this stuff up. I joke a lot about Baez, but sometimes I honestly feel a little sad for him. It would be great for him to be in a large law firm with senior partners to mentor him and proof read his motions and to kibitz over his shoulder. I spit my pop all over my computer when he was inviting Amy to contact Casey through his office. This is the same judge that already had the bar investigate him once....doesn't he want to pretend to pay attention to the judge's ruling? Did he have that little soundbite rehearsed and decided to go with it, regardless or does he suffer from ADH? God bless him , it was a classic.

My jar dropped on that one ... he didn't just say what I think he said ??? Yes, he did ... I think he just wings it in front of the camera and doesn't engage brain before speaking ... (pretty much like he is in court) ... but what a stupid think to say ... regardless of the restraining order on KC, Amy's a key state witness !!! FGS He hasn't even deposed her yet ... WTH?? :loser:

 

[LadyL]

I seem to always be the one to say this - wasn't it quite normal for KC to speak to the court and apologize?

if she did not, people would say oh what a jerk, she doesnt even pretend to be sorry.

she does, and everyone says oh what a jerk, that was insincere.

whatever her reasons, be it she is truly sorry, or her lawyers coaching her, both, neither, it was the right thing to do, and she did it.

[bbm]

I understand your point but I disagree. The right thing to do is to genuinely accept responsibility and sincerely apologize. I don't know any crime victim who would've felt better with a hypocritical apology rather than nothing. The ones I know would rather the guilty party disappear off the face of the earth than continue to victimize through mind games and bs. It's not the 'right thing to do' when one only does it for one's benefit. Make no mistake, if she (& Baez) thought it would've helped her case more to be silent, the world wouldn't have heard a peep from her.

Further, I doubt she has any literal concept of what the 'right thing' means. It's an abstraction to her. It's something people keep talking about and she has to figure out how to pretend to do it/feel it/portray it in order for her to psychologically (and quite possibly literally) survive in this world.

The more she practices, the more convincing she gets to people (and the only people who matter are the ones who have something she wants/needs). Once she thinks she's accomplished a particular ploy (i.e., it 'works' on most victims), she'll move on to her next manipulation. I think this is why her & Baez get along so well ... they feed off of each other ... they use each other. If she thought for a minute he couldn't really help her, or someone better came along, she'd drop him pronto!

I have to admit there are two times in the video where I thought for a second she was sincere (that's how far she's come in her 'acting' lessons). I kinda got off track here but bottom line is, I believe the 'right thing to do' is when we do something because it will benefit someone else or ease their suffering somehow. KC's not capable of caring about that, In fact, her public apology could've quite easily caused more damage to her victim(s), especially since they had to listen to her annoying nails-on-a-chalkboard voice. :snooty:

Just my opinion. Nothing personal. :innocent: