2010.12.03 Agreement: No Death Penalty, Life In Prison For Elisa Baker

[impatientredhead]

I have been reading articles about deals that were challenged after the fact, found one where a child was killed by the parents, tortured, bound and gagged, kept in the closet, body dumped in the river.

A nanny that was present, didn't intervene, didn't get help, didn't report it, and was present when the body was dumped got a full immunity deal to testify against the parents and show them where the body was dumped.

The challenge came when it turned out the body was dumped across state lines. That state charged her with abuse of a corpse and said the immunity deal didn't extend to crimes committed in their jurisdiction.

Judge disagreed, said it was not the intent of the agreement, and if he did allow her to prosecuted on the new charge all the evidence that was gathered and used against the parent had to be thrown out because the terms offered for their collection would not be honored.

 

[impatientredhead]

ITA no charges yet a deal????

I don't think it is that unusual.
Immunity for testifying happens pretty often.
They need the testimony to get the charge.
Kind of the chicken or the egg analogy.

What is different is this isn't the hooker that won't be charged if she testifies against spitzer, or the kid that was buying drugs and saw a murder won't be charged for the drug buy.... this deal appears to have allowed EB to rule out two sentencing options instead of ruling out specific charges.

I think it was a bad deal for the state but I don't think it is unusual in the timing. Her attorney wouldn't let her agree to a deal that a judge is going to later throw out. A judge had to have seen the agreement somewhere along the way. It can't be that far out of procedure.

 

[FaerieB]

I can't imagine they gave such a deal for merely finding the body especially when they had an apparent boatload of evidence in the house!

I suggest the deal was to get more perps.

But they didn't have a boatload of evidence in the house until after she started speaking. They had been through the house with previous warrants, and found nothing.

 

[believe09]

And another thing, in the article Westside linked...it says they are being investigated for "kidnapping'.

Phone records for Adam and Elisa were requested, from Sept. 18 through Oct. 11, because, according to the search warrants, investigators believed both may have participated in kidnapping.

Now unless Adam had Zahra when he was not supposed to...why Kidnapping? Zahra lived with them. Strange I think. I can't think of another case where the parent was investigated for kidnapping when the child lived with them.....anyone got an easy answer for that? I guess maybe LE was just going with the story at the time? IDK.

North Carolina Kidnapping statutes:

(a) Any person who shall unlawfully confine, restrain, or remove from one place to another, any other person 16 years of age or over without the consent of such person, or any other person under the age of 16 years without the consent of a parent or legal custodian of
such person, shall be guilty of kidnapping if such confinement, restraint or removal is for the purpose of:
(1) Holding such other person for a ransom or as a hostage or using such other person as a shield; or
(2) Facilitating the commission of any felony or facilitating flight of any person following the commission of a felony; or
(3) Doing serious bodily harm to or terrorizing the person so confined, restrained or removed or any other person; or
(4) Holding such other person in involuntary servitude in violation of G.S.
14-43.12.
(5) Trafficking another person with the intent that the other person be held in
involuntary servitude or sexual servitude in violation of G.S. 14-43.11.
(6) Subjecting or maintaining such other person for sexual servitude in violation​

of G.S. 14-43.13.

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state...laws/north-carolina-kidnappingabducting-laws/

So, I would think we could look at this possibly as a parental abduction case if Zahra's mom told a credible story of her disappearance from care, or we could look at any confinement against Zahra's will (say locked in her bedroom) and any felony subsequent to it as being kidnapping.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Thanks Westside! I guess what I'm wondering at this point is does anyone think this turning each other in to the children's services was kind of a tit for tat thing with these guys. Kinda like "well you turned me in so I'll get you back"?

teh, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you just described is one of the major problems that sucks the time and resources out of DSS/CPS..People use it as a weapon to get back at neighbors, friends, family members..you name it! ..and EVERY case has to be checked out of course, but there are just SO many, unfortunately a *real* case gets lost in the shuffle..

Sad fact is that sometimes there is abuse going on but no one reports it until they have a dispute of some kind..but very often people will call DSS/CPS out of nothing more than revenge..thus draining time that could be a matter of life and death for another child..:furious:..

eta~the worse part about that is..when DSS is investigating a case they can't afford to be wrong (even though I'm aware that sometimes unfortunately they are) so imagine the time it takes to even do the most cursory investigation..hours at a minimum...and you still wonder if you made the right call on every case, so that's ALWAYS on your mind..

 

[believe09]

Thanks Westside! I guess what I'm wondering at this point is does anyone think this turning each other in to the children's services was kind of a tit for tat thing with these guys. Kinda like "well you turned me in so I'll get you back"?

I am trying to follow this train of thought-are you saying that the claims being made by AB's relatives regarding the calls to DSS and being run off the road and threatened with a taser are tit for tat claims? That EB called DSS on one of their families? :waitasec:

So they then called in a complaint regarding EB's treatment of Zahra?

I am sorry, but I am lost...

 

[believe09]

Like Patty G, I think that any deal that brought Zahra home sooner was a good one. EB wont be strolling out of jail the first time she comes up for parole-there is no way. Folks have a long memory for crimes like this-Investigators do for sure. I am certain that Zahra's family was consulted before the deal was agreed to.

 

[madeleine]

Can someone pls enlighten me re the matresses they found,I am new to this case.(the one found in the landfill and the one found in their home)
Were both blood stained?

TIA so much.

RIP sweet Zahra :rose:

 

[westsidefox64]

Can someone pls enlighten me re the matresses they found,I am new to this case.(the one found in the landfill and the one found in their home)
Were both blood stained?

TIA so much.

RIP sweet Zahra :rose:

I dont think its been determined yet that either was or wasnt per msm. JMO

 

[Pondering Mind]

Like Patty G, I think that any deal that brought Zahra home sooner was a good one. EB wont be strolling out of jail the first time she comes up for parole-there is no way. Folks have a long memory for crimes like this-Investigators do for sure. I am certain that Zahra's family was consulted before the deal was agreed to.

I honestly don't know if they would have ever found her had they not made the deal..Of course, they could have still made a case without finding her, but not knowing what evidence they do have..and remembering that everything was seeming to stall out there for awhile, I have to wonder how strong it would have been in a Court of Law anyway..

 

[wenwe4]

Can someone pls enlighten me re the matresses they found,I am new to this case.(the one found in the landfill and the one found in their home)
Were both blood stained?

TIA so much.

RIP sweet Zahra :rose:

What I understand is that EB directed LE to a dumpster where the original mattress was to have been dumped. LE then utilized Team Adam to assist with locating the mattress in the landfill - which they did find a mattress in the landfill. Also, IIRC a mattress and box springs was taken from the home on 21st Ave. In one of the search warrants that listed the items taken from the house included a piece of fabric from a mattress. EB and Zahra were seen at a furniture store - but that may be totally unrelated to the new replacement mattress - as I assume was taken from 21st Ave. No forensics have been reported on the mattress - so we only are putting things together from the reports and nothing has been verified yet - to my knowledge.

 

[Lera213]

I think as soon as EB admitted to writing the ransom note, and the two dogs alerted on the vehicles, they should have petitioned for a warrant on the house. Once in the house the and they processed it, they would have found the blood, which would lead them to search other areas ie drain, and such. They also had a report that a new mattress was bought, therefore they were already looking at the landfill. I think the police would have found enough to pressure EB or AB into giving the location to where the remains were without any agreement.

I think the DA tied LE's hands from the get go. I think LE tried to get a warrant but the DA said NO he wanted more evidence. The DA is a big failure and a disgrace at this point from the information so far given to us.

He owes the community a big explanation and more so to the Police!

 

[tehcloser]

I am trying to follow this train of thought-are you saying that the claims being made by AB's relatives regarding the calls to DSS and being run off the road and threatened with a taser are tit for tat claims? That EB called DSS on one of their families? :waitasec:

So they then called in a complaint regarding EB's treatment of Zahra?

I am sorry, but I am lost...

I'm saying that I think they get mad at each other and try whatever they can to cause problems for each other including calling DSS.

 

[Lera213]

The DA knew this was a high profile case, he was only concerned about himself and his political career. He thought finding the body would make him a hero and solidify his career. This is why I think he would not allow a search warrant on the house until the police found more solid evidence. When the police didn't come up with something quickly, that is when the DA rushed to make the deal.

 

[wenwe4]

The only thing I think is sure right now is that EB knew where to find the multiple dump sites. From what AY has told us - she was vindictive - (ie: calling his Dr. when she found out he called DSS). AY also said he would not believe a thing EB says. AY also stated everything was possible in this case. The only person I am ready to villify at this point is EB! Until more conclusive evidence comes out - I will not be angry with others until I know exactly WHO it is I would want to freak out on.

 

[Lera213]

Wenwe4,

Me personally, I don't trust a word any of the people that are known in this case irregardless if they are guilty or not.

 

[nosysw]

I think as soon as EB admitted to writing the ransom note, and the two dogs alerted on the vehicles, they should have petitioned for a warrant on the house. Once in the house the and they processed it, they would have found the blood, which would lead them to search other areas ie drain, and such. They also had a report that a new mattress was bought, therefore they were already looking at the landfill. I think the police would have found enough to pressure EB or AB into giving the location to where the remains were without any agreement.

I think the DA tied LE's hands from the get go. I think LE tried to get a warrant but the DA said NO he wanted more evidence. The DA is a big failure and a disgrace at this point from the information so far given to us.

He owes the community a big explanation and more so to the Police!

ITA, but especially with above BBM. Most are saying it was worth a deal as they wouldn't have found Zahra otherwise. I don't really get this- if EB was a suspect I don't see how the blood/tissue in the drain wouldn't have eventually been found. Dismemberment was suspected from the start- wouldn't it have been an obvious place to look? I just can't justify giving her a deal like this just to find Zahra when they could have found this evidence without her assistance. I know these are the games they play in these cases but it sickens me to think she will ever be able to enjoy one day of her life...not seeing rehab of a person like her...

 

[Lera213]

Nosysw I agree too and it seems like we had a DA who only thought of himself and was very weak. LD knew this and played it to her advantage! I can only imagine how LE must be feeling about this right now!

 

[Lera213]

I find it striking that this news came out so close to the weekend...DA thinking by the time he comes in Monday morning that the worst about this news will be over for him from the public?

I think it is time to write an email to this DA. LOL

 

[Angleena]

Do you have a link the statute for accessory after the fact? Maybe it has changed but I posted the link to the statute I found for the state an that is not what it said at all. Said the accessory could be charged with original offense minus two degrees. Maybe there is a more current version?

Being executed as an accessory (or as a getaway driver) was overruled by the supreme court. Just like all the states that said they were going to start executing child rapist and the supreme court said it was not allowed. Only the killer can be executed, the secondary players can only face lwop at a maximum.

You are correct for accessory after the fact. However, accessory before the fact is punished the same as the primary.