2011.01.30 new search north and west of Portland

[gwenabob]

I posted earlier the weekend weather going back to early Dec. And most of it was out of the ideal range for these dogs to work, according to one of their handlers, IIRC. There were a couple of other viable weekends in there, though.

However, a local who hikes there all the time says there has been snow cover in some of the area that was searched. She drove over during the search to verify that searchers were in her hiking area. So, maybe the dogs don't like snow. Or maybe their handlers don't like snow. Or cold. IDK

I saw somewhere that it has to be over 40 degrees for the dogs to be able to sniff the scents. I wouldn't be surprised if there was snow up there in November. It was definitely too cold in December and until recently this month.

 

[Billylee]

We snowed down here in Oregon (so. of Roseburg) the week before thanksgiving, so it makes sense that it probably snowed up there.

 

[KariKae]

Would a dog be able to detect a scent if the body is concealed in a plastic container? I'm thinking of a big Rubbermaid type container.

 

[CASH]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/desiree_young_says_waiting_for.html

"The mother of Kyron Horman struggled today with feelings of despair following yet another failed search for her missing son.
(snip)
"It's torture," said Desiree Young. "It's the worst cruel punishment that a woman has to go through."

(snip)
"She said she knew about plans for Sunday's search since a briefing with investigators before Thanksgiving. She said they told her and Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, they had solid new evidence."

I think LE has a major problem now. They let the public think that they could bring closure to the case yesterday. And they failed to find what they were looking for. Now they claim they will be back to finish the search sometime this month, as if they have all the time in the world. Am I the only one who finds this unacceptable?

I accept that Kyron is most likely deceased. So there is no timeliness to the search in that sense. However, someone murdered a child in cold blood and is walking around free. She or he may be monitored by LE, but they are still FREE and they wouldn't be the first to disappear before prosecution. The parents are anguished and the custody of another innocent child hangs in the balance. In the meantime, every day costs more money. To add insult to injury, now that they have alluded that this place may be ground central for evidence, there is nothing to stop people from looking around up there and disrupting evidence.

Saturday was an even better day than Sunday here in Portland. If they were worried about time, why not search both days - why wait until Sunday? The weekend before last in Portland temps hit almost 60 degrees.

I give Desiree tremendous credit for her patience with LE. I don't know how she has stopped herself from heading up there and searching herself, or hiring a team to do so.

I understand that coordinating a major search and rescue event takes planning. But if they really thought that Dixie Mt. held the key, they would not or should not have waited this long. I just can't believe they are as confident as they let everyone believe yesterday.

My confidence in this investigation is now at its lowest point. It is time for LE to provide answers. They either have a good sense of what happened to this sweet child or they don't.

 

[Shadowboy]

Anyway, I'm guessing one can hunt up in this area and I also wonder if some kind of tip may have come from a hunter who maybe saw something that just didn't look quite right. ?

(quote respectfully snipped)

Given what DY said about the timing, IMO you're probably right about a hunter finding "hard evidence."

 

[pinktoes]

Here's what jumped out at me from that interview with Desiree:

"She did not say what that was but said the briefing diminished the hopes she had held close from the start of seeing her son alive again." (*link below my comments)

So, LE finally told her and Kaine that they had new, hard evidence that Ky is dead, or likely so. They've still been working on developing the circumstantial evidence to try a case without a body, if the DA has to. They had to wait for better weather in the multiple targeted areas where they thought they might find Ky's remains and/or other physical evidence related to the crime.

As large an area as it is, I am not optimistic that they'll find anything any time soon. The DA will have to decide if what they've got is enough for a successful trial.

I read that Staton does not plan to ask the County Commissioners for any more money. So, he'll scale back the Task Force; it'll no longer be fulltime; there'll be more SAR searches in Feb and probably when weather warms. Staton still has some costs related to those, though the searchers are volunteers. He can probably cover those costs in his regular budget.

That's how it looks from where I sit.
_______________

*link:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/desiree_young_says_waiting_for.html

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

Man's inhumanity to man!!!
I wonder that Terri feels nothing when we all can't but feel the terrible sorrow & pain of Desiree & Kaine!!!!!

 

[tfrohning]

I don't think they should give up hope yet...this was one search they have a couple more area. I still think LE sounded confidence on this tip!

The question is who gave this tip for it to be so reliable

 

[cluciano63]

I too am unhappy with the searching not being on-going, if the lead is so good. I think it is horrible to tell the parents that they have such a great lead and then tell tell the public closure may be near, only to turn around and say there is no rush to find Kyron and they will search again at some point in the future. What??

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I feel LE needs to do a press conference and let everyone know where this investigation stands.If they found little Kyron(Dead or alive) they need to say so.If they think he is dead they need to say so.What's the next step?

 

[cluciano63]

Man's inhumanity to man!!!
I wonder that Terri feels nothing when we all can't but feel the terrible sorrow & pain of Desiree & Kaine!!!!!

I doubt that anyone who could be responsible for Kyron ending up in a place like those being searched is feeling much of anything for Desiree's pain, or the fact that searchers and their trained animals are rsiking their lives looking for Kyron...

 

[Etilema]

I doubt that anyone who could be responsible for Kyron ending up in a place like those being searched is feeling much of anything for Desiree's pain, or the fact that searchers and their trained animals are rsiking their lives looking for Kyron...

Or perhaps glee.

 

[sayd]

Would a dog be able to detect a scent if the body is concealed in a plastic container? I'm thinking of a big Rubbermaid type container.

Well, my dogs can smell their dog food in a big Rubbermaid type container. They apparently can smell the trash in large plastic covered trash bins too. :great:

 

[matou]

So then this tip came in sometime before Thanksgiving since Desiree and Kaine were both told "they had solid new evidence" in regards to Kyron. That would be before November 25th, so it's been over two months that Desiree has known about this. I have to wonder when this info first came in? I can't imagine the horror of sitting with this info as a parent....

I found a cache to the "Chas" link. Sorry for all the colored words, since I copied and pasted in Google to find it.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...k&gl=ca&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.ca

 

[loves2bmom]

I think LE has a major problem now. They let the public think that they could bring closure to the case yesterday. And they failed to find what they were looking for. Now they claim they will be back to finish the search sometime this month, as if they have all the time in the world. Am I the only one who finds this unacceptable?

I accept that Kyron is most likely deceased. So there is no timeliness to the search in that sense. However, someone murdered a child in cold blood and is walking around free. She or he may be monitored by LE, but they are still FREE and they wouldn't be the first to disappear before prosecution. The parents are anguished and the custody of another innocent child hangs in the balance. In the meantime, every day costs more money. To add insult to injury, now that they have alluded that this place may be ground central for evidence, there is nothing to stop people from looking around up there and disrupting evidence.

Saturday was an even better day than Sunday here in Portland. If they were worried about time, why not search both days - why wait until Sunday? The weekend before last in Portland temps hit almost 60 degrees.

I give Desiree tremendous credit for her patience with LE. I don't know how she has stopped herself from heading up there and searching herself, or hiring a team to do so.

I understand that coordinating a major search and rescue event takes planning. But if they really thought that Dixie Mt. held the key, they would not or should not have waited this long. I just can't believe they are as confident as they let everyone believe yesterday.

My confidence in this investigation is now at its lowest point. It is time for LE to provide answers. They either have a good sense of what happened to this sweet child or they don't.

See now I get the exact opposite feeling today. I have new found hope that justice will be served upon reading they have solid new evidence. The "tone" of the search was also much more positive "to me" in that they are finally in the right area. Just different observations I guess.

 

[LMax]

I was reading the old scanner threads to see what happened in November and I found this [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118841"]Terri withdraws request for visitation - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[LMax]

Could they have received some information after this show?
http://www.kgw.com/news/Dateline-to-air-new-Kyron-Horman-program-106785808.html
PORTLAND, Ore. -- A new Dateline NBC will explore the latest developments in the Kyron Horman case.
The show airs November 12 and will feature interviews with parents and kids from Skyline Elementary
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119109"]New "Dateline" -( waiting room) 2010.11.12 Kyron Horman case - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[nurseratchett]

Just an FYI, my beagle can smell his toys wherever I hide them. If he gets one of the kids toys he's not allowed to have and I have to "hide" it from him, even if I put him in the backyard and I have buried it in the nether regions of a dark closet with shoe and moth ball smell, he still finds it. He will "track" it for a few minutes, then go and bay at where it is.
He's pretty good, by instinct, imagine what training could do...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank-you for this, Sarx.

Now, can you offer some insight as to why LE would be bringing in HRD Dogs to search for the boy at this late stage, in this area, then? :waitasec:

I'm not Sarx but it seems fairly clear to me.

The area has been described as rugged, heavily forested with houses few and far between. An adult who was an expert wilderness survivalist could probably live out there for 8 months, but what are the chances a 7 year old boy could do so? Particularly one described as being somewhat timid and being afraid to venture out of sight of his own home. I'm thinking anywhere from zero to zilch.

If Kyron were alive in the area, he would have to be at one of the houses, being cared for by an adult. I imagine LE has probably already contacted every household in the area, to ask them if they saw, heard or noticed anything odd around the beginning of June... and incidentally quietly checking for any signs of a 7 year old boy on the premises.

If they've ruled out the few houses, that leaves the wilderness. If Kyron is in the wilderness, he's not alive, to put it bluntly.

Hence HRD dogs.

 

[sarx]

I saw somewhere that it has to be over 40 degrees for the dogs to be able to sniff the scents. I wouldn't be surprised if there was snow up there in November. It was definitely too cold in December and until recently this month.

Posted this awhile back, but need to squish this one before it becomes "fact". Dogs that are NOT trained in extreme temps will quite possibly have trouble in them. It does Not however mean that dogs can't "sniff" in those temps. Think about avalanche dogs whose whole job is to sniff out people buried under snow, often in very very cold temps. It's an issue of training, not capability.