2011.02.21 Autopsy; COD & TOD Discussion *Warning: Graphic*

[WhyaDuck?]

Yes, tl, I've been wondering about that... Perhaps now that we have an autopsy report, it would be easier to shut the COD/TOD thread and just have this thread for that purpose?

Sound okay to anyone?

***

Link to old COD/TOD thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125234"]Cause of Death and Time of Death, Thread #2 (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sounds good to me, Duck.

 

[tlcya]

I have no objections, I leave those highfalutin mod decisions to those wiser than myself

Good morning ducky

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Zahra's murder hard to prove

Gary Wright and Franco Ordonez

February 24, 2011

On Tuesday the medical examiner's office would not talk about the autopsy or offer any more explanation of its finding of ''undetermined homicidal violence''.

The autopsy offers few clues to why medical examiners concluded a killing occurred. The report describes Zahra's medical history, including her battle with cancer, but said sparse recent records failed to reveal any major health problems.

''It'll be interesting to see how they prove it was a purposeful killing rather than a death by natural causes followed by dismemberment,'' Mr Ward said.

More at:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahras-murder-hard-to-prove-20110223-1b5pg.html

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Flakes, I have responded to your post regarding blood spatter and portmortem blood quantity on the COD TOD thread as it seemed the more appropriate venue.

Don't want to make the mods work any harder than they post keeping us on topic.

O/T (Oh, the irony!)

Are you trying to imply that I suck at staying on topic? :innocent:

 

[WhyaDuck?]

This thread is for archival purposes only.

The autopsy report can be read here, in PDF:

http://www.wbtv.com/global/link.asp?l=476992

 

[WhyaDuck?]

A new autopsy report released Monday lists "homicidal violence" as 10-year-old Zahra Baker's cause of death.

The report says that Zahra was dismembered after she died. It shows that investigators have not located several of her bones, including her skull.

The medical examiner said several of the bones that have been located showed signs of cutting "consistent with dismemberment."

The cause of death is listed as "undetermined homicidal violence"

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/New-...icide-as-Zahras-cause-of-death-116617898.html

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Zahra's autopsy mentions at least 2 different cutting instruments

The report says the cause of death is "undetermined homicidal violence" and that the body was "presumed" to have been dismembered after the girl died, but they were not sure.

The autopsy says the medical examiners' office received partial skeletal remains of Zahra and that she had been cut in various areas.

"The marks grossly appear to result from the use of at least two different cutting instruments," the report said.

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14070870

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Zahra Baker case might be complicated by lack of specific cause of death

Wednesday, February 23, 2011

By Gary L. Wright and Franco Ordoñez | The Charlotte Observer

Catawba County prosecutors may face a daunting task in trying to prove that Elisa Baker killed her stepdaughter without clear evidence to show how the 10-year-old girl died.

In an autopsy revealed Monday, the N.C. Medical Examiner's Office concluded that Zahra died as a result of "undetermined homicidal violence."

"I've never heard that term before," Steve Ward, a Mecklenburg prosecutor for 25 years, told the Observer. "It means the medical examiner is saying the victim was killed, but they have no idea how it happened."

More at:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/23/109253/zahra-baker-case-might-be-complicated.html

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Zahra's murder hard to prove

Gary Wright and Franco Ordonez

February 24, 2011

On Tuesday the medical examiner's office would not talk about the autopsy or offer any more explanation of its finding of ''undetermined homicidal violence''.

The autopsy offers few clues to why medical examiners concluded a killing occurred. The report describes Zahra's medical history, including her battle with cancer, but said sparse recent records failed to reveal any major health problems.

''It'll be interesting to see how they prove it was a purposeful killing rather than a death by natural causes followed by dismemberment,'' Mr Ward said.

More at:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahras-murder-hard-to-prove-20110223-1b5pg.html

 

[Aedrys]

More at:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahras-murder-hard-to-prove-20110223-1b5pg.html

This so frustrates me. I understand why it has to be said that way, but really? Yes, after someone dies of natural causes, the first thing to naturally do is dismember the body. NOT.

I just don't understand why the the fact that she was dismembered does not matter more towards her actual death. It's like the dismemberment is being treated as completely separate from her actual death, and that is just wrong to me. But I guess since they can't say for sure medically what she died of, then that's what they have to say even though it must sound wrong to them when they have to say it. I'd love to see a defense attorney try to spin this in court.

 

[Hickory Born]

IMO LE must have evidence of blood and tissue on the wall and floor in Zahra's bedroom that supports murder versus natural death. Plus evidence from the bathtub drain that supports dismemberment happened there.

 

[raisincharlie]

IMO LE must have evidence of blood and tissue on the wall and floor in Zahra's bedroom that supports murder versus natural death. Plus evidence from the bathtub drain that supports dismemberment happened there.

LE did bring in a blood spatter expert. I'm of the opinion that this expert will be able to verify if the evidence found on all those sections removed from the wall and floor in Zahra's room were made during a violent assault or during dismemberment.

The number of tool marks described in the autopsy makes me think there was no use of any type of powered tooled used during the dismemberment. Geeze I hate having typed that.

 

[TrixieBelden]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but did anyone else think it very odd that the sternum bone(s) was missing other than me?

Poor child,,,

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but did anyone else think it very odd that the sternum bone(s) was missing other than me?

Poor child,,,

With so many bones missing, I never really paused to think that one particular bone missing might be odd. But then, you could park an elephant in my bed and I probably wouldn't notice it until it stole the covers.

Why do YOU think it odd?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Other than the skull, the sternum would be one of the best places to tell COD.

 

[matou]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but did anyone else think it very odd that the sternum bone(s) was missing other than me?

Poor child,,,

It'a a pretty spongy bone and may have been lost of damaged in the soil but I had some other thoughts. When a person is stabbed in the chest, usually the manubrium (upper part of the sternum) can be smashed and sliced straight through. I wonder if these more fragile bones were discarded at the time of the murder/dismemberment. JMO

 

[matou]

Other than the skull, the sternum would be one of the best places to tell COD.

I'm thinking the cut at the acromion end of the clavicle is an actual stab wound.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I'm thinking the cut at the acromion end of the clavicle is an actual stab wound.

It's hard to say - I think it could also be a dismemberment wound.

ETA: Was that the score that the ME on NG was talking about?

 

[TrixieBelden]

With so many bones missing, I never really paused to think that one particular bone missing might be odd. But then, you could park an elephant in my bed and I probably wouldn't notice it until it stole the covers.

Why do YOU think it odd?

When I noticed the sternum was missing on the autopsy diagram, I just had an odd thought pop in my mind about that particular bone being gone- given what is known about the dark lifestyle and interests of the Baker(s)

I will just keep this thought to myself bc lord knows there has been enough horrific things done to this child without my suggesting something else that may be totally in error.