2011.03.18 Order Denying Defense Motion to Suppress -"Agents of the State" Motion

[LolaMoon08]

Lola I feel for ya, it's very difficult to accept that any person could just live in such a state of complete and utter denial. But for both G and C they do it. It boggles one's mind to watch. They are willing to sacrifice justice for that sweet baby Caylee and turn a deaf ear to save ICA. It is disgusting to see. I am a parent and can honestly say truthfully that I would never, ever stoop to such a level. We have always held our children to an honest standard. If my child came and told me he committed a crime he would have to turn himself in. Yes, I would be devastated and hurt, but still love and support him through it all.

My mom raised three daughters, as a single mother when she divorced our abusive father (to her, not us), and now has two beautiful granddaugthers from my older sister and her husband.

My youngest niece is only a few months older than Caylee would be (her name is Haley), so when this case started in 2008, my niece has just turned three years old. My mom doesn't follow this case like I do. She simply reads the headlines when our local newspaper has a story about it (not very many).

To make a long story short, my mother said she would NEVER forgive my older sister if she ever did anything to harm a hair on the heads of either one of her granddaughters. She would disown her completely... and I believe her 100%. Ever since we were young, she would tell us... you go to jail... don't call me... I won't bail you out. I won't sit in court with you... nothing! I remember one time she seen my sister walking down the road when she was supposed to be in school and took her straight to school and into the Deans Office and made the Dean give my sister a weeks detention and a month of Saturday school. My mom didn't play around. To this very day... none of us have ever been arrested or gotten into any kind of trouble (we're all in our 30's). I think we loved and respected her enough to not want to hurt her in that way.

I think of how my mom raised THREE girls by herself with no financial support from anyone (my dad or the State). She worked, went to school, and made a life for us. It's not easy, but it can be done. That is why I don't understand Casey? Why? Caylee didn't have to die?

I do not understand this whole family... maybe because I have had a really good life... with a wonderful mother... and was raised well? I don't know? It just makes me sad for Caylee... she really didn't have a chance, did she?

 

[Pattymarie]

thats what i think cindy is struggling to live with every day... the fact that if her daughter is sentenced to the DP

it is because of the phone call SHE made to 911...

imagine being the one being responsible for a daughter who

1. killed their own child and

2 indirectly being the one to end your daughters own life

it just doesnt bear thinking about

Do you think that when CA made that fateful call that she had any idea that her granddaughter was dead at the hands of her own daughter?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Do you think that when CA made that fateful call that she had any idea that her granddaughter was dead at the hands of her own daughter?

I don't know if she KNEW for sure, but it crossed her mind for sure. She's hysterically reporting Caylee missing and in the same breath says "Somethings wrong... I found my daughters car today and it smells like a damn dead body in the car." (ETA" not verbatim) She put two and two together long enough to make that excited utterance.

 

[Baznme]

Almost a boo-boo on the State of Florida side and yet another for Baez...but Casey straightened it all out very nicely for all involved. This one (video) WILL definately be played for the jury!

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/0...ampaign=Feed:+ChatHouseNews+(Chat+House+News)

Hope this link is OK Mods. If not, just take it down.

 

[faefrost]

Almost a boo-boo on the State of Florida side and yet another for Baez...but Casey straightened it all out very nicely for all involved. This one (video) WILL definately be played for the jury!

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/0...ampaign=Feed:+ChatHouseNews+(Chat+House+News)

Hope this link is OK Mods. If not, just take it down.

One of our kind Lawyers please please set me straight if I have this wrong, but if my understanding is correct the defense would not be able to introduce that video into evidence. That would be the defendant offering testimony through an alternate means that does not face cross examination. The defense has the option of putting the defendant on the stand to provide that information. Perhaps the best they could do is call Lee to the stand to ask him about that conversation and what his sister said?

 

[logicalgirl]

The reality is, Cindy is not the one responsible for Casey's actions. Casey murdered Caylee... not Cindy. Casey is going to get whatever punishment she gets because of her actions.

I know we like to put a lot of blame on Cindy and George... we've blamed them both for the person Casey has become... and a lot of it is true. I do think they raised a monster... but at the same time, Casey didn't have to murder Caylee. If she really wanted to hurt Cindy... Casey could have worked hard, gotten State Grants to continue her education, moved out of that home with Caylee and make a damn good life for just the two of them. She could have done all this the right way, but she was just too lazy! She didn't want to put the work in... like her father! Caylee didn't have to die!

Casey loves every minute her parents are up on that stand being tortured by the lies they are telling... I believe it gives her great satisfaction to see how they are choosing HER over Caylee. I could not even believe that Jose asked Lee whose side was he on? Thank God he answered Caylee! I'm not so sure whose side Cindy and George would have chosen... they would have had to think about that one. I would have loved to hear it though!

Well, if it is true, and Cindy and George will be sitting down with Insession this upcoming week, we will get to see how angry they are that they couldn't prove themselves "Agents of the State."

The only thing CA and GA could say - well CA because nothing GA could do would give me one iota of consideration towards him - so - the one thing CA could say that MAY very slightly redeem herself in my eyes is if she says she wants ICA to pay for killing Caylee, but she does not want ICA put to death.

Maybe and maybe only then will I give even an inch in my opinion of her.

 

[Just Jayla]

Yep, the whole family (including Casey) was gonna be one big happy foundation.

With KC as the boss of their big corporation....George's official tile? Thumb. Cindy's tile: Index Finger (Vice-Pointer)....KC is the Ring Finger Leader and Lee-Well, he seems to be doing well in his new position as Middle Finger-He seemed very comfortable showing his position to KC and Baez at the last hearing.

 

[logicalgirl]

With KC as the boss of their big corporation....George's official tile? Thumb. Cindy's tile: Index Finger (Vice-Pointer)....KC is the Ring Finger Leader and Lee-Well, he seems to be doing well in his new position as Middle Finger-He seemed very comfortable showing his position to KC and Baez at the last hearing.

Seriously Just Jayla - don't you think this "family" is no more? By the end of the trial I believe they will all go their separate ways. The family simply does not have the spiritual strength individually or as a unit to withstand what for them will be a horrific double tragedy.

 

[angeldust]

The reality is, Cindy is not the one responsible for Casey's actions. Casey murdered Caylee... not Cindy. Casey is going to get whatever punishment she gets because of her actions.

I know we like to put a lot of blame on Cindy and George... we've blamed them both for the person Casey has become... and a lot of it is true. I do think they raised a monster... but at the same time, Casey didn't have to murder Caylee. If she really wanted to hurt Cindy... Casey could have worked hard, gotten State Grants to continue her education, moved out of that home with Caylee and make a damn good life for just the two of them. She could have done all this the right way, but she was just too lazy! She didn't want to put the work in... like her father! Caylee didn't have to die!

Casey loves every minute her parents are up on that stand being tortured by the lies they are telling... I believe it gives her great satisfaction to see how they are choosing HER over Caylee. I could not even believe that Jose asked Lee whose side was he on? Thank God he answered Caylee! I'm not so sure whose side Cindy and George would have chosen... they would have had to think about that one. I would have loved to hear it though!

Well, if it is true, and Cindy and George will be sitting down with Insession this upcoming week, we will get to see how angry they are that they couldn't prove themselves "Agents of the State."

Hi Lola

I totally agree with all you say am also of the opinion that kc and kc alone is responsible for her actions she s a monster alright, but today i thought for a moment, what, really must she, cindy be going through

I know KC put herself where she is but as a mother i just cant fathom how it must be to be her mother kcs i mean. I think its incredulous that cindy says she wouldnt have called le if she knew how this would turn out or words to that effect i just sometimes wonder what really must go on in her head when she closes her eyes at night kwim

 

[angeldust]

Do you think that when CA made that fateful call that she had any idea that her granddaughter was dead at the hands of her own daughter?

Hi Patty

i think a combination of kc dodging her for a month, no talking to caylee no hearing her voice cindy knew something was wrong she d have that niggling feeling eating away at her but no control of her daughter.

Then the car, i think, sealed the deal. she was panicking hoping that gut feeling was wrong so somewhere deep down she knew i think but i also dont think she really would allow herself to go there.....you know (murder)
so to answer your question I think her soul knew, but her head wouldnt accept it

 

[LolaMoon08]

Hi Lola

I totally agree with all you say am also of the opinion that kc and kc alone is responsible for her actions she s a monster alright, but today i thought for a moment, what, really must she, cindy be going through

I know KC put herself where she is but as a mother i just cant fathom how it must be to be her mother kcs i mean. I think its incredulous that cindy says she wouldnt have called le if she knew how this would turn out or words to that effect i just sometimes wonder what really must go on in her head when she closes her eyes at night kwim

Good question.. what goes on in Cindy's mind when she closes her eyes at night in the comfort of her own home... where no one else can see her or judge her and her thoughts... I believe Cindy Anthony is haunted. Haunted by the thoughts that Caylee was murdered in her own home... that Caylee's decomposing body, at one point, was in her backyard. I believe she is haunted by the thoughts of what she could have done different... what she could have done to save Caylee. I also think there might be nights where she does have happy memories of Caylee and the times they shared together. Caylee did love Cindy very much. She loved her in the unconditional way that Cindy can't even begin to understand because Cindy can not love unconditionally. All her talk about loving Casey unconditionally is a farce. If she loved Casey unconditonally, she would accept Casey for what she is and what she has done and love her anyways... not cover up for her crimes and make excuses for her... she wouldn't blame innocent people for what has happened.

I think a lot goes on in Cindy's mind when she is alone with only her thoughts... I think her thoughts are a lot different than what she presents to the public... she knows Casey killed Caylee and I have always thought that Cindy had forgiven Casey for what she did and thinks that only she should be able to punish Casey the way she always has. Since she is the the grandmother of Caylee and the mother of Casey... she should be able to call the shots.

MOO

 

[LolaMoon08]

The only thing CA and GA could say - well CA because nothing GA could do would give me one iota of consideration towards him - so - the one thing CA could say that MAY very slightly redeem herself in my eyes is if she says she wants ICA to pay for killing Caylee, but she does not want ICA put to death.
Maybe and maybe only then will I give even an inch in my opinion of her.

Yes, but like you said, slightly. Nothing can erase what she has done these past few years.

I do hope that one day, Cindy can put her ego aside and ask for forgiveness because she is going to need it. She needs to do in private (not call a media conference) and it needs to be true and from the heart. The same goes for George and anyone in his case who has thrown Caylee aside for their own personal agendas.

 

[Just Jayla]

Seriously Just Jayla - don't you think this "family" is no more? By the end of the trial I believe they will all go their separate ways. The family simply does not have the spiritual strength individually or as a unit to withstand what for them will be a horrific double tragedy.

I do-Even though they have come this far, it is said that families that suffer the loss of a child often split apart, and Caylee was like a child to GA and CA. If we watch the home videos of them with Caylee, it cannot be overlooked that they truly adored her. Though how they have honored her memory may be another story.
Few psychologists will dish out my advice to Lee, but it is this: There are bad parents, and then there are evil parents. In either case, when you come to an impasse with them like it appears Lee will, it is okay to abandon your relationship with your parents. As a society, we have learned to honor and love our (bad/evil) parents simply because they are our parents, but to me that is very damaging and continues horrible cycles.... A bad parent may redeem themself-An evil parent should be warded off like the plague. How can he bring his own children into the current environment and believe their emotions and well-being are safe? How can he be the best husband he can be and honor his wife, when his parents may stand between them with constant drama?

It is very sad all around. I do not see how they can continue as a family indefinately while on this path.

ETA-I believe GA and CA are bad parents right now, not evil. Casey was an evil parent.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I do-Even though they have come this far, it is said that families that suffer the loss of a child often split apart, and Caylee was like a child to GA and CA. If we watch the home videos of them with Caylee, it cannot be overlooked that they truly adored her. Though how they have honored her memory may be another story.
Few psychologists will dish out my advice to Lee, but it is this: There are bad parents, and then there are evil parents. In either case, when you come to an impasse with them like it appears Lee will, it is okay to abandon your relationship with your parents. As a society, we have learned to honor and love our (bad/evil) parents simply because they are our parents, but to me that is very damaging and continues horrible cycles.... A bad parent may redeem themself-An evil parent should be warded off like the plague. How can he bring his own children into the current environment and believe their emotions and well-being are safe? How can he be the best husband he can be and honor his wife, when his parents may stand between them with constant drama?

It is very sad all around. I do not see how they can continue as a family indefinately while on this path.

ETA-I believe GA and CA are bad parents right now, not evil. Casey was an evil parent.

I believe in second chances, and the power of redemption, but I'm not sure CA could ever humble herself enough.... not so long ago she and GA had a very public 'Re-Baptism' and then went straight out and lied again.

 

[Caligram]

CA, GA, & LA knew from the 31 days of no Caylee that something too horrible to contemplate had happened. Cindy knew that she was the "trigger" to this last disappearance of Casey/Caylee. When GA drove the car from the impound and then CA vacuumed and scrubbed the car/trunk to remove any traces of Caylee, they both knew. In the conscious part of their brain they identified the odor and put all the pieces together. There was no puzzle then - Caylee was dead. They put their emotions in deep freeze, and went on to handle this new situation. Cindy made those 911 calls out of desperation. After that, she realized that this was more than she bargained for, and "somebody" was going to have to produce Caylee. Cover-up mode began. It really wasn't "denial", because they knew Caylee was dead. But they put forth "denial" as the cover-up excuse to lie and tamper with evidence. They used LE, volunteers, the media and all sources they could garner to search for a live Caylee. Then Caylee became worth more being dead, as the Anthony's raked in money with the pretext to search for a live Caylee. Blood money, it turns people into heartless cash scavengers - vultures in human form.
Sweet Caylee Marie Angelbabe....justice will come.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"This is not a very bright family."

No, they aren't are they? Despite how much they would like to appear to be.

When George testified "I'd sell my soul to the devil to get my granddaughter back" the thought that crossed my mind was "You already have, George. You already have."

During the upcoming trial, I expect Judge Perry will not tolerate a whole lot of "behaviors" from either George or Cindy - or anyone else for that matter. I also expect that whether or not the Universal trip evidence comes in or does not come in, there will be a fairly speedy conviction.

Off topic, but I wanted to comment on it: I finally got to watch that Jane Valez Mitchell show from when they discussed the hearings. I did not think it was particularly slanted to support the defense as I believe someone else had perceived it to be. I noticed at the very end of the segment, one of the female lawyers - I think her name is Stephanie, from Florida? - said "It doesn't really matter if this evidence comes in or not. They have enough other evidence to convict her with no problem".

As I see it, the only question is whether or not there will be a death penalty recommendation from the jury.

 

[jennyb]

Good question.. what goes on in Cindy's mind when she closes her eyes at night in the comfort of her own home... where no one else can see her or judge her and her thoughts... I believe Cindy Anthony is haunted. Haunted by the thoughts that Caylee was murdered in her own home... that Caylee's decomposing body, at one point, was in her backyard. I believe she is haunted by the thoughts of what she could have done different... what she could have done to save Caylee. I also think there might be nights where she does have happy memories of Caylee and the times they shared together. Caylee did love Cindy very much. She loved her in the unconditional way that Cindy can't even begin to understand because Cindy can not love unconditionally. All her talk about loving Casey unconditionally is a farce. If she loved Casey unconditonally, she would accept Casey for what she is and what she has done and love her anyways... not cover up for her crimes and make excuses for her... she wouldn't blame innocent people for what has happened.

I think a lot goes on in Cindy's mind when she is alone with only her thoughts... I think her thoughts are a lot different than what she presents to the public... she knows Casey killed Caylee and I have always thought that Cindy had forgiven Casey for what she did and thinks that only she should be able to punish Casey the way she always has. Since she is the the grandmother of Caylee and the mother of Casey... she should be able to call the shots.

MOO

Only half-joking (well maybe a quarter) but I think Cindy's mind probably looks mostly like an Excel spreadsheet. I don't think she's a whole lot different than her daughter. Except for the pesky murder thing they're the same "tiny person".

 

[AZlawyer]

Almost a boo-boo on the State of Florida side and yet another for Baez...but Casey straightened it all out very nicely for all involved. This one (video) WILL definately be played for the jury!

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/0...ampaign=Feed:+ChatHouseNews+(Chat+House+News)

Hope this link is OK Mods. If not, just take it down.

One of our kind Lawyers please please set me straight if I have this wrong, but if my understanding is correct the defense would not be able to introduce that video into evidence. That would be the defendant offering testimony through an alternate means that does not face cross examination. The defense has the option of putting the defendant on the stand to provide that information. Perhaps the best they could do is call Lee to the stand to ask him about that conversation and what his sister said?

Baznme, are you talking about the part where she says she was read her rights? No one will be playing that part, because it is irrelevant. All the statements they want to introduce from her were obtained before she was read her rights, and HHJP has ruled that they will come in anyway.

Faefrost, I assume you were NOT talking about that part of the video, since there would be nothing helpful to the defense about Casey being read her rights. But you are correct that the defense couldn't introduce a video of Casey telling "her story." They also can't ask Lee what Casey said. The SA can, though, and will.

 

[Pattymarie]

Hi Patty

i think a combination of kc dodging her for a month, no talking to caylee no hearing her voice cindy knew something was wrong she d have that niggling feeling eating away at her but no control of her daughter.

Then the car, i think, sealed the deal. she was panicking hoping that gut feeling was wrong so somewhere deep down she knew i think but i also dont think she really would allow herself to go there.....you know (murder)
so to answer your question I think her soul knew, but her head wouldn't accept it

On the night of the phone call, I don't think CA knew she was dealing with a murdering daughter...a lying, thieving, conniving daughter, maybe.

She had long covered up KC's minor crimes (I have a friend who bails out every single one of her adult son's misdeeds and crimes).

So despite KC's lying and thieving, I do not think CA would have ever imagined KC capable of killing Caylee. Nothing so far had indicated that KC had violent tendencies. If KC had been gradually building up to and committed violent acts, CA might be able to wrap her mind around the possibility of her being able to commit murder.

But KC's minor crimes did not alert CA or anyone for that manner, that KC was progressing to something much more heinous.

If she could believe it I think she would have turned her over to LE, but instead, the night of the phone call she wanted KC arrested for
"stealing" a car she had been allowing her to drive. I don't think murder was on her mind. Even with the death smell. She could not make that leap.

So now, despite the facts of the case, it seems as if she still cannot believe her daughter could commit this sinister act.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yes, but like you said, slightly. Nothing can erase what she has done these past few years.

I do hope that one day, Cindy can put her ego aside and ask for forgiveness because she is going to need it. She needs to do in private (not call a media conference) and it needs to be true and from the heart. The same goes for George and anyone in his case who has thrown Caylee aside for their own personal agendas.

I guess one thing that angers me is their grimacing and head shaking etc., in court during the LE's testimony because I think the two of them were in such a state for at least the first three initial days - there is no way they have an accurate memory of who said what, when and where - they were too emotionally out of it.

I know during the few huge life crisis' I have had, I always asked someone close to me to tell me what happened, because I know I am remembering from a skewed perspective.