2011.03.24 Frye Hearing - Afternoon portion

[SoCalSleuth]

Yep. I think somehow the defense just recently realized that they didn't have to just use "ugly coping" in a vacuum but instead could say that someone was "ugly coping" BECAUSE of some mental issue. Not a disease or even a disorder, necessarily, but some ability to dissociate oneself from reality in a terrible, stressful situation.

But wouldn't they need expert opinion on that? And if so, wouldn't that opinion have been disclosed in an expert report?

 

[Turnadot]

Abuse, neglect from family?

Considering KC stole from them, lived off them and never carried her weight in that household, dumped Caylee off on CA while KC partied - I think this will be a hard sale.

 

[Joanner]

Someone was asking what was grave wax during the hearing. It is also called adipocere.. here is the link to the thread; just be warned the first post has a gruesome picture.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93024&highlight=grave+wax

Interesting that there is an article listed in that thread written by Dr. Vass.

 

[logicalgirl]

The hearings are over today but the Afternoon thread is busting at the seams. Continue discussion here.

Let's try to make this thread informative. Some of you guys are freakin' hilarious and we all enjoy and need the laughs, but the one-liners are killing the mods people. :bang: So, let's use this thread to discuss, rehash and understand what we have learned over the past 2 days.

aaaand GO!

Not trying to be a smart aleck here Beach - but I keep reading these warnings or requests and am not clear about what your intent is.
I thought today was a particularly civil thread on the board so am just not understanding what the heck the problem is. Obviously my intent, and I imagine that of others on the board, to follow your instructions but can you elaborate please?

Can you expand for the sake of myself and others on the board so we understand? Or else is it a request to just watch live and read only? Cause I don't get it at all.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I was thinking about this while I was driving around pretty much all day...my mind kept going back to the tattoo parlor.

PS- do we know which websites her search for chloroform took her to?

I used to tattoo and I never came across chloroform being used in any way in a tattoo shop. Just my experience.

 

[QueenD]

Was it really that bad? I only heard snippets on the radio.

Where do you listen to it on the radio at? Station?

I was wondering if it is on satellite radio is why I am asking.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Here's my opinion.

If one side is going to attack the evidence, they have to provide the other side with what they are going after and the documentation to back it up.

Baez, IMO, told the State he was only going to challenge Dr. Vass on the interpretation of the results they got and also something else I don't remember, but then he proceeded to try to attack Dr. Vass on many levels, including the machinery used to get the results. If allowed, the State would be unprepared to cross-examine and make their case. That is why HHJP was referring to an "ambush".
MOO

Right. But I was under the understanding that a Frye hearing was for the sole purpose of questioning if 'the machinery' was an accepted way of testing. I didn't think a Frye Hearing could cover 'the results' thus obtained from 'the machinery'.

Since JP said what he did though, I guess a Frye Hearing can address 'the results' regardless of the machinery that was used to obtain them.

This is tricky.

 

[strach304]

I think from what I have seen to this point that it goes to show the decomp. BUT then you have to factor in the computer searches for chloroform & that makes me unsure as to how the prosecution will use the info.

I asked AZ this question a couple of days ago on the lawyer thread and she said both. Since the levels were so high it certainly could be.

 

[2goldfish]

Ssejors, I have to apologize one WSer to another, as I am one who sometimes can follow the hearings live and who does lean to the smart-a$$ side.

First off, I am sorry for any of my specific posts have impeded your ability to follow along.

Second, I think you're on to something here. Maybe during the trial we can have both a "real-time updates" thread and a "chat" thread running side by side? Maybe this would just be a moderators' worst nightmare. IDK. Either way, thanks for the nudge that I might think my smarta$$ comment is hysterical but not every reader will. :blowkiss:

I love your comments. and everyone else's. the other poster is right, we need an update thread seperate from the usual which I thought was the point of the summary thread, maybe we need to stick to carefully updating the summary thread, I admit I dont.

but I think our chatter is more than chatter. if it wasnt for you all and your witty repartee I could NOT handle the hearings, I am a very emotional and sensitive person and spent half of today's hearing in tears, even with you all. if it wasnt for you all I dont honestly think I could handle them at all.

 

[ynotdivein]

OK, getting into the WayBack Machine here--what are folks' thoughts on Forgey's testimony?

It's been a while--but I thought he did well with JB and sharpened up considerably when crossed... Though at this point I'd be hard-pressed to say which SA cross-examined him... :crazy:

 

[beach]

Maybe during the trial we can have both a "real-time updates" thread and a "chat" thread running side by side? Maybe this would just be a moderators' worst nightmare. IDK. Either way, thanks for the nudge that I might think my smarta$$ comment is hysterical but not every reader will. :blowkiss:

<snip>

Just an FYI - but we are most likely going to use the chat room feature here during the trial.

We're very aware that the pace of the hearing threads is a problem for many, many people. To stay on topic, we'll let that rest for now. Updates will be forthcoming.

 

[logicalgirl]

My head is pounding from the hearings and just trying to grasp all this, so I am not going to elaborate excpet to ask -

Won't this present discovery and deadline issues/problems at this late date??? Seems there would be witnesses that would need to testify to her prior mental capacity/habits etc... Maybe they would be some of the same people already listed but what if the SA didn't depose them regarding any of that? They wouldn't have had a reason to....

I don't think that made a lot of sense but I hope you can read between the lines to get my drift.

I have a feeling when all the DT evidentiary motions got shot down with a bang, this is their Plan B. I mean they really don't have anything else. gah

HHJP said he requires this documentation from the defense and arguments no later than close of Tuesday to consider it.

 

[RR0004]

Here's my opinion.

If one side is going to attack the evidence, they have to provide the other side with what they are going after and the documentation to back it up.

Baez, IMO, told the State he was only going to challenge Dr. Vass on the interpretation of the results they got and also something else I don't remember, but then he proceeded to try to attack Dr. Vass on many levels, including the machinery used to get the results. If allowed, the State would be unprepared to cross-examine and make their case. That is why HHJP was referring to an "ambush".
MOO

Was it "methodologies"?

 

[RR0004]

I used to tattoo and I never came across chloroform being used in any way in a tattoo shop. Just my experience.

I know we have a thread about it...but something just keeps bringing me back to that parlor.

 

[wenwe4]

I think much of the multiple posting is because none of us can see what the other is posting while we post and we are trying to keep those who are reading only up to the minute with most of this stuff. Some of us post about mood etc., and some are very good posting the more complicated evidence stuff.

I don't have any trouble scrolling by duplicate posts - as I am often watching to see who is posting what to see if I can add anything. I don't see how this can be avoided during the trial unless select members are chosen to post only and then does that not take away from the whole spirit of being online at WS and watching the hearings/trial live?

I am also loving the smart aleck one liners because it is a huge tension release during some tough stuff to watch - whether it is hugely boring or highly emotional. Thanks all - just IMO

I totally agree. I have been a lurker and not able to get the live feeds and wanted "just the facts jack". I also have been posting for 2 days and I have been guilty of the 1 liners, myself. Sitting there hanging on each and every word as it happens in real time makes for a stressful day and for myself, the one liners are just a stress relief and my way of coping. It is also another way for me to not say something that would get me banned. I appreciate everyone's take on things and I do attempt to keep notes from what I hear them say. I cannot be 100% accurate while this is going on and rely on someone else posting in the highlight threads the "just the facts jack sort of stuff". Hopefully that makes sense - just wanted to validate that both threads are needed (IMO).

 

[BChand]

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/26939470/detail.html



this link shows that they are still in court tomorrow... is that not the case???

Apparently not. Judge Perry said he would only be free AFTER 4 pm tomorrow in case they needed a hearing on whatever they were discussing at the end between Ashton and Finnell.

I agree though, the original schedule was for all 3 days. Next date is April 1st to continue.

 

[RR0004]

Given the major fight with CA and the threat to take Caylee from ICA ... I'd suspect ICA placed Caylee in the trunk and dumped a bunch of chloroform in to do the dirty work for her. ICA then strutted off for her date with AL. The timing is more about spite and torture against CA than a wrong dose.

As SP said, ICA hates CA more than she loved Caylee. Caylee became the target of the spite and the best way to hurt CA and retaliate -- thus the game of hide and seek afterwards. ICA was enjoying the cat and mouse.

Yup...I'm leaning to that as well...the prosecution won't vacillate...they want the Murder 1. JMO

 

[JSR]

<snip>

Just an FYI - but we are most likely going to use the chat room feature here during the trial.

We're very aware that the pace of the hearing threads is a problem for many, many people. To stay on topic, we'll let that rest for now. Updates will be forthcoming.

chat room feature?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Was it determined if chlorine bleach was used to clean the trunk?
I know we have threads on the topic but has that avenue for levels being what they are been eliminated?

Hummmm Chlorine has pretty much been ruled out by the levels Dr. Vass spoke to...The peaks of Chloroform were far too high to indicate JUST decomposition..thus it had to have been added either later (during cleaning out that trunk by Cindy) or before..to enduce sleep to Caylee ( thats a nightmare for me to even think about)

IF it was chllorine ( which it wasnt IMO) then that carpeting would have had some bleach type staining due to the ammounts that had to have been used. One would not get these level by just putting a wet bathing suit into the trunk..nor towels..nor a bucket of Chlorine tabs from a Pool Equipment store..The readings were for chloroform..NOT chlorine..these area two difference chemicals that a machine GC would pick up in analysing the air retrieved from that carpet in a "Controlled setting"

JMOO of course..Chlorine is just a Red Herring that defense would love to float around..:twocents:

 

[Turnadot]

Also, the abuse/neglect angle is a wash, IMO, because of the way KC treated her parents during the jail visit, and on the telephone when she called for Tony's number. The way KC talked to her own mother was appalling.

As for the ugly coping. As a juror the only way I would consider this idea is if the defence could show me a KC that was different before Caylee was murdered. The defence can't do it.

All my own opinions.