2011.03.26 - More Searching off Skyline

[Billylee]

This is the only way I could get this screenshot in here without blowing the margins but if you click on it, it should get bigger.

This is one of the places we saw searchers.
We had pulled over to the gate on the right to stretch and while walking around we heard voices and I looked (to the left in the picture) and saw at least 3 or 4 searchers back in the woods.

These roads are gravel, windy and even though I've studied the maps and been up there a lot more since January, and the DBF is VERY familiar with the area, it is easy to get disoriented if you are randomly driving..

He was looking off the side of the road and commented he saw a lot of garbage, even a refrigerator, we did hear searchers (the ones down the hill at another location) say they found a tire, then another, then another... (I think that is okay to say..)

At a lot of the blue gates you will see shotgun shells, beer cans, litter..

We saw elk bones scattered at one gate and he pointed out the elk hide that was decomposing in the brush..

We also saw a bobcat, and he commented he saw more deer than usual for that time of day. Our thoughts were that the searchers probably disturbed them..

Just to give you a better idea of what it is like up there..

I am so thankful for all the SAR's out there, the ground is slippery with wet leaves, kind of mucky from rain, the terrain is rough, and at times the weather was almost hailing!

Free, are these roads all gravel roads, is Dixie Mtn. Road gravel as well?

 

[freefallzzzz]

Free, are these roads all gravel roads, is Dixie Mtn. Road gravel as well?

Yes.
If you look at the below link you can even do a 'street view' and see that Rocky Point ends and you can either go left onto NW Dixie Mt Rd, or right onto
Dixie Rd which is also on the map as Dixie Mt Rd.

They don't directly lead to any main route..

To get to Sunday's SAR Base you would follow the road to the right.
(The google street view in my post above is on Dixe Rd/ Dixie Mountain Rd)

http://goo.gl/maps/dMVa

 

[freefallzzzz]

This shows locations of SAR Base in Jan, SAR Base this Sunday, and just "two" places searchers were.

Remember these locations are marked from just what I personally saw...
I'm sure there were more ..

I don't know how to make the little map pop up in here w/out clicking the link..

I don't try to figure out why they are up there, I'm just glad they are still looking for him =)

http://goo.gl/maps/zXQ8

 

[scandi]

No.

I grew up -- spent 18 to 22 years -- in that general area. I know it's difficult for those of you geographically removed ... but the tracts being searched are not only choked with underbrush but are, often, "hills from hell."

Case in point ... A 2000 -3000 foot elevation gain in certain areas of the
U.S. are "mountains." Out here, they're "hills." And they are "hills" steeply incised with numerous creeks and rivers ... plus, the "hills" are choked with foliage.

So, no. You won't find your keys. And it's "fabulous" terrain to lose a body. I posted this in another WS thread: A Green River cadaver was just recently discovered ... What? 25+ years after the poor woman was killed and dumped? And she was near other Green River remains.

Ky will be found. Hopefully, soon. But ... maybe not so soon.

Hi Shadowboy, Well said that it often takes time. Thank goodness in this case time is on LE's side even tho we all want Kyron found ASAP.

Back in the 80's I happened to be driving out of Tualatin by the RR tracks going W and saw an ambulance and officers congregated by the tree line about 50' on the other side of the tracks. I stopped, naturally, and learned they had just discovered a body. I didn't have time enough to stay and watch the happenings too long but later learned she was one of the victims of the Green River killer. It was pretty scary hitting so close to home. It is hard to understand why perps dispose of bodies where they do, like this area was within about a mile of the edge of town. A big surprise and she had been there for awhile.

http://karisable.com/grevilocaor.htm

 

[pdx]

Thank you Miss you too...:hug: Been over on Hailey Dunn case...

The only other case I have picked here to follow.. that one. Another crazy farm!

Can you tell me what the weather is like there in Portland about this time of year?

Also are there any frozen lakes there or does it not get that cold?

THIS year, it is cold, for us. We have not yet hit 60 degrees, boo. And wet. On track to be the wettest March ever.
However, not usually cold enough to freeze lakes. That one you were asking about.. it doesn't look like any roads go to it, although there must surely be one.

 

[Adrienne37]

Thanks so much to all you locals for keeping us updated.


~jmo~

 

[carbuff]

Can anyone tell me if

Alderwood Lake Reservoir Has ever been searched and the woods around it???

especially the woods going toward Dede other house??? (on NW Bishop Rd...)

http://usa.indettaglio.it/eng/41/051/1639149.html

This place has been bugging me from day one.... It is also called Dixie Mountain....

Hey there. Good to see you.

The last searches are getting quite close to that area where I thought your one map fit, north of Otto Miller Road.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Sorry to be Off Topic -- but Nancy Grace Show "50 Missing" is re-running the show on Kyron Horman -- 3-29-11 8:00 pm central time

Back to Topic ... Thanks so much for this update on the searches.

 

[CN2Souls]

The only other case I have picked here to follow.. that one. Another crazy farm!

THIS year, it is cold, for us. We have not yet hit 60 degrees, boo. And wet. On track to be the wettest March ever.
However, not usually cold enough to freeze lakes. That one you were asking about.. it doesn't look like any roads go to it, although there must surely be one.

Thank you, is it foggy or misty there allot? Kind of hazy like?

Hey there. Good to see you.

The last searches are getting quite close to that area where I thought your one map fit, north of Otto Miller Road.

Good to see you to CarBuff,
I see they are getting close to that area which is a great thing,

I sure wish we all knew what has triggered such an intense search of this area. :waitasec:

But what ever it is... I hope it brings them closer to Bringing this little guy home...

 

[freefallzzzz]

Thank you, is it foggy or misty there allot? Kind of hazy like?



Good to see you to CarBuff,
I see they are getting close to that area which is a great thing,

I sure wish we all knew what has triggered such an intense search of this area. :waitasec:

But what ever it is... I hope it brings them closer to Bringing this little guy home...

The last few times I've been up there, yes, the higher up you get into that area it will get foggy/hazy if it's rainy or cloudy out..
I'm guessing because you are at a higher elevation.

They actually were closer to that Alderwood Lake Reservoir in the January search.
The SAR Base on Sunday was about 5 miles NW of where they had it in January..

Click on this map to see that the Reservoir is almost directly south of the marker where searchers were seen in January.

http://goo.gl/maps/wqHo
(I really need help w/the map thing.. anybody?) =)

 

[CN2Souls]

The last few times I've been up there, yes, the higher up you get into that area it will get foggy/hazy if it's rainy or cloudy out..
I'm guessing because you are at a higher elevation.

They actually were closer to that Alderwood Lake Reservoir in the January search.
The SAR Base on Sunday was about 5 miles NW of where they had it in January..

Click on this map to see that the Reservoir is almost directly south of the marker where searchers were seen in January.

http://goo.gl/maps/wqHo
(I really need help w/the map thing.. anybody?) =)

Huge Thank you for the Map....I stink at maps... LOL


What would the weather have been like in the area they are searching at around June of 2010, the day Kyron went missing?


I know that some said it was a little rainy, but I notice the terrain and elevations change allot in that area,


So, where they are searching what would it have been like???

TH doesn't seem the type to trudge out in wet slippery terrain, and there wasn't that large of a time period for her to do so.


**Warning Graphic***
I hate to say this... but a toss to the side of the road with that thick of underbrush would have made him lying on top of it he wasn't that heavy. He would have been easy to find, and statistics say that most perpetrators dispose of the body within a 2-5 mile radius of were the abduction took place. So, if it was not TH, he would have been found by now if Predator had taken him...

 

[cluciano63]

I'm having trouble seeing how he can be found in areas so dense as these, without some help from someone who knows exactly where he was placed...especially after nearly a year. The searchers could be so close and yet be unable to find a sign of him...

 

[freefallzzzz]

Here is the closest weather station info I could find on the website I use for June..
scroll down and you can see the monthly rainfall map.

http://www.wunderground.com/weather...ORTH4&graphspan=month&month=6&day=4&year=2010

It would not have been mucky wet ground like it is now and yes, the leaves have fallen, branches have come down (lots of storms w/high winds since June). The ground up there is covered and when you walk in it you mush down through it all..

I would think if anything was found it would be a piece of clothing, shoe sole.. =(
But that is my speculation, I am NO expert on searches or as to what would be found...

 

[pdx]

Thank you, is it foggy or misty there allot? Kind of hazy like?

What would the weather have been like in the area they are searching at around June of 2010, the day Kyron went missing?

I know that some said it was a little rainy, but I notice the terrain and elevations change allot in that area,

So, where they are searching what would it have been like???

TH doesn't seem the type to trudge out in wet slippery terrain, and there wasn't that large of a time period for her to do so.

From my office, I can use the West Hills as a gauge of the clouds.
Right now, they are very low; I can only see one tree ridge and just cloud above it. It's raining on and off and the clouds are very low, "socked in".

Last June 4, I can't say how many trees I could see, but the weather was similar. Heavy overcast, spitting rain. Like free says, the higher you go, the more clouds.

I don't know what type of person TH would be WRT tromping around the hills but I'd say that very few people use the area up there on a regular basis, some seem to for recreational purposes. I have lived here 30 years, more or less in that part of town and explored what I thought was everything in this area, but I have been exposed to three significant areas of town from studying this case.
The Oregon marker is in Forest Park, and is the geographic 'center' of Oregon (all measurements go outward from here). Dixie Mountain is an entire part of Skyline I have never explored til now and, I always wanted a reason to go creep around that gully off of Corn Pass Road, lol.

I think I know where you're going w/your questions, but I'm not sure if anyone can give a definitive answer. I think you should come visit.

 

[scandi]

Huge Thank you for the Map....I stink at maps... LOL


What would the weather have been like in the area they are searching at around June of 2010, the day Kyron went missing?


I know that some said it was a little rainy, but I notice the terrain and elevations change allot in that area,


So, where they are searching what would it have been like???

TH doesn't seem the type to trudge out in wet slippery terrain, and there wasn't that large of a time period for her to do so.


**Warning Graphic***
I hate to say this... but a toss to the side of the road with that thick of underbrush would have made him lying on top of it he wasn't that heavy. He would have been easy to find, and statistics say that most perpetrators dispose of the body within a 2-5 mile radius of were the abduction took place. So, if it was not TH, he would have been found by now if Predator had taken him...

Hi CN2Souls, ITA that if a Predator {SO} had taken him he more than likely would have been found by now.

From all the cases I've read about it seems to be a 'general' MO that SO's don't try to hide the body or bury it. Brooke Wilberger was simply covered with leaves in a low spot at the base of a tree and left like that. I also think Predators often use waterways to dispose of a body. But with a familial perp they more than often will lay the body out with care or bury it as they usually have some feelings of remorse.

And I think you are also right about that 2.5 mile radius. I think last November LE learned more about TH's cell phone use that day which is what Desiree intimated. It must be there were pings NW of the school since that is where the recent searches have been.

Boy, don't you wish we knew all the details ???

 

[scandi]

I'm having trouble seeing how he can be found in areas so dense as these, without some help from someone who knows exactly where he was placed...especially after nearly a year. The searchers could be so close and yet be unable to find a sign of him...

Clu, Do you know how close a ping usually is to where the actual phone was when used?

The other thought is there are allot of dirt roads that take off of the main roads up on Skyline hill. It makes me think they would choose a site accessible by such a road to avoid being seen by another car.

In Free's photos there was one such pic showing a small road taking off to the right and leading into a treed area with low ground foliage. I think that is what the perp would look for, don't you?

 

[cluciano63]

Clu, Do you know how close a ping usually is to where the actual phone was when used?

The other thought is there are allot of dirt roads that take off of the main roads up on Skyline hill. It makes me think they would choose a site accessible by such a road to avoid being seen by another car.

In Free's photos there was one such pic showing a small road taking off to the right and leading into a treed area with low ground foliage. I think that is what the perp would look for, don't you?

I have heard of some cases where they can practically walk right to a phone in a field by the pinging...and others where it is a general area. I think it may depend upon how many towers serve a particular area. But it seems there are many variables, i.e. if a tower is really busy, etc...

I think if the perp is TH, she knew the area and where she could turn.

But if they don't find Kyron, the pings will be of no use at all, as far as I can tell.

 

[CN2Souls]

Hi CN2Souls, ITA that if a Predator {SO} had taken him he more than likely would have been found by now.

From all the cases I've read about it seems to be a 'general' MO that SO's don't try to hide the body or bury it. Brooke Wilberger was simply covered with leaves in a low spot at the base of a tree and left like that. I also think Predators often use waterways to dispose of a body. But with a familial perp they more than often will lay the body out with care or bury it as they usually have some feelings of remorse.

And I think you are also right about that 2.5 mile radius. I think last November LE learned more about TH's cell phone use that day which is what Desiree intimated. It must be there were pings NW of the school since that is where the recent searches have been.

Boy, don't you wish we knew all the details ???

RBBM.

My Personal Opinion,

This is true, However, in the Case of TH, IF she did harm to Kyron

Searching areas,

If it was an accident out of sudden rage, I believe she would have panicked and disposed of him with in a 20-minute period,
Most people who kill someone accidental (but still Criminal) Panic and they will not keep the body more than 20 minutes. (Unless the person has killed before) So, within a 20 minute driving area of Skyline, and I would feel she would have gone east or south not north or west. Lower elevation, Near or in water, covered with whatever was in the area, logs wood, leaves or moss. within 100 ft of a road.

However, if it was premeditated, out of hatred or revenge on someone.
Well, than I would bet he would be buried and it would be well planned out and already set up before the day he went missing and I would think it would be in a higher elevation and North or west. He would also be buried in something. Far from any road. However there would be some type of marker in the area. stack of rocks, sticks tied together, some little marker.

 

[scandi]

RBBM.

My Personal Opinion,

This is true, However, in the Case of TH, IF she did harm to Kyron

Searching areas,

If it was an accident out of sudden rage, I believe she would have panicked and disposed of him with in a 20-minute period,
Most people who kill someone accidental (but still Criminal) Panic and they will not keep the body more than 20 minutes. (Unless the person has killed before) So, within a 20 minute driving area of Skyline, and I would feel she would have gone east or south not north or west. Lower elevation, Near or in water, covered with whatever was in the area, logs wood, leaves or moss. within 100 ft of a road.

However, if it was premeditated, out of hatred or revenge on someone.
Well, than I would bet he would be buried and it would be well planned out and already set up before the day he went missing and I would think it would be in a higher elevation and North or west. He would also be buried in something. Far from any road. However there would be some type of marker in the area. stack of rocks, sticks tied together, some little marker.

Hi CN2Souls, Then do you pretty well rule out SI as to where he was put?

It looks like LE is looking N to NW now and they said in a presser {I think ;} they are working on the new info which was gleaned in Nov and dealt with pings. What has me curious is they also said the Horman truck was spotted at 10:30 on Skyline Rd and Germantown Rd. And within 2 days after Kyron went missing TH placed herself driving on Hwt #30 - before she knew how the case would blow up and every point would be scrutinized.

Plus, if there was a 911 call from SI at 11am about a car race {not confirmed but written by a local SIslander} with a white truck being forced off into a ditch, it seems hard to take her out of that SE area and put her up NW of the school.

That is unless the accomplice {which LE alluded to saying they thought there were at least 2 people involved} met her and took the body up NW. Maybe the transfer of the body to the accomplice was made on SI IMO, as she still didn't get home till around 1pm. Maybe that is what happened and now LE is working on the accomplice part of the crime. That makes sense to me. Right now, that is.

 

[Beatrice]

What exactly did Dede Spicer say before the Grand Jury? TIA