2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[Basmat]

I'm curious why the CPS lady did not know the address to which she just drove to ... 2 min to find the address??

This may sound stupid, but I know where I live. But if ASKED my address, I often have to dig out a utility bill to give someone my exact address.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Here's the thing- at my job, if I don't bring my A game, ya know, it's not ideal, but worst case is we fingerpaint all morning or have a longer recess because I'm moving slower than normal.

But if my job is emergency dispatch, then the stakes are exponentially higher and if I drop the ball, potentially people can die.

I believe, IMHO, that it would have been to late for the boys anyway, but the dispatcher DID NOT KNOW THAT, and should have responded with due concern.

Maybe I couldn't have done any better, but I did not choose emergency services as my profession nor have I had training.

I'm sorry but when your job is life and death I don't think you get to have an "off" day. IMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rotterdam]

I want to know what the knew and if they passed the info on to the supervisor they sent to the house. Do they let "contractors" know details about the parents? Would they have warned her if this visit could have potentially more dangerous (we know it was now but did they send in this poor woman with less then a warning if they had one). I am not sure how the system works but if someone knew and didn't even warn the poor lady they should be fired. Also did the judge know this or was it just CPS? I have all sorts of questions now because they might have had info that would have kept the kids away from him on that day!

She knew enough , including the outcome of the previous Wednesday court hearing, that she even brought up in the 911 call to emphasize the emergency situation to the 911 dispatcher.

 

[rotterdam]

This sister of his was one of his major enablers UNTIL she felt her brother was in danger.

That was the ONLY reason she bothered to call 911. NOT because the boys were in danger. She sickens me.

She might not have been even aware that the children were visiting that day.

 

[suzihawk]

The Judge probably just followed the current law. Also we do not know if the other agencies brought up any objections. I do not think blame can be put solely on one person.

Oh yes - yes it can! The sole person to blame is Josh Powell. He, and he alone, took those children's lives.

The laws are set up to protect the rights of the suspected criminals. It's always been that way. It may not be right, but it's the way it is. Until those laws are changed, these things will continue to happen.

Mistakes were made, no doubt. While I understand the need to learn from the mistakes made, I'm getting a little tired of the Monday morning quarterbacking.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Oh yes - yes it can! The sole person to blame is Josh Powell. He, and he alone, took those children's lives.

The laws are set up to protect the rights of the suspected criminals. It's always been that way. It may not be right, but it's the way it is. Until those laws are changed, these things will continue to happen.

Mistakes were made, no doubt. While I understand the need to learn from the mistakes made, I'm getting a little tired of the Monday morning quarterbacking.

JMO

Ditto

 

[Mgorules]

You are so right. Here we are scrutinizing the actions/reactions of two folks low on the totem pole. When the whole situation was created by much higher paid folks that made IMO very poor executive decisions resulting in an impossible situation for those two workers. One of them could have been easily killed too.
Kind of follows a typical failed project fiasco . Panic & hysteria, search for the guilty and punishment of the innocent.

We're scrutinizing everyone's actions-- if the higher ups hadn't made such uneducated and ill informed decisions, that social worker wouldn't have been bringing the boys to the house, and the 911 dispatcher wouldn't have had to make a split second decision to mark a call urgent. Unfortunately, the higher ups had info that should have led them to the conclusion that something like this could happen-- but the 911 dispatcher actually had live, up to second information of something really, really bad happening, and he didn't act upon it. To me, that's the difference. With the higher ups, it's more of a "what if" scenario, and they should have been more diligent in using the information they had. With the 911 dispatcher, he was being told in live time that the boys were in danger, and dropped the ball in a big way. If that doesn't call for immediate dismissal and a review of protocol, I don't know what would. I would hate for someone to lose a job, but if you have poor decision making skills, a 911 call center is probably not the best career path- it can have deadly consequences, not just the end result of an unhappy customer experience.

Maybe he was on cold meds and wasn't thinking clearly, who knows?-- I'm not trying to villainize him, but if you look at who had what information at what time, and the actions that were taken, it is the 911 dispatcher that really did the least with the most, if that makes sense.

I hope that he is getting support somehow-- he will live with this the rest of his life, and I can't imagine how painful that must be. Just another reminder that decisions that you make can affect others in unimaginable ways... I just feel terrible for everyone involved, and hope that many things are learned from this nightmare.

JMO

I'm so sad now

 

[Concerned Papa]

So is it safe to assume that at least 10 mins transpired between the time the boys were locked inside until the first call made it to 911?

That assumption is only safe if one chooses to ignore the timeline facts that are available at this point.

Ok, if you read the the 911 transcripts she clearly states he locked her out 10 mins prior to the call. <modsnip> It's not her fault he killed himself and those kids <modsnip>. This is not bashing any one PERSON for the actions of another but you can't deny the obvious. All we can do now is LEARN from mistakes and oversights in this case in hopes of preventing another one similar.

I’m tired of misinformation and outright misrepresentation being continually used to bash this social worker. She DID NOT say he locked her out 10 minutes prior to the call. What she said, at the 4:16 mark of a 6:48 long 911 call, was:

SOCIAL WORKER: Foster Care Resource Network. (Pause). And the kids have been in there by now approximately 10 minutes. And he knows this is a supervised visit.

With her first 911 call being made at 12:08 pm, this means the door was slammed in her face at approximately 12:03 pm. She called 911, 5 minutes and some seconds later.

She was locked out FIVE MINUTES prior to placing the 911 call, NOT ten.

The logs show that the social worker called 911 from her cellphone at 12:08 p.m

http://www.ksro.com/news/article.aspx?id=1682888

From all apparent indications, this explosion occurred at approximately 12:16 pm.

The man who took her call transferred the information to a dispatcher, who alerted two deputies about 2 1/2 minutes later, at 12:16.

But at precisely that time, calls began pouring in to report explosions at the house about 35 miles south of Seattle — apparently from the fire blowing out windows.

http://www.ksro.com/news/article.aspx?id=1682888

Josh Powell ignited the gasoline causing the explosion and fire which killed his children approximately THIRTEEN MINUTES after slamming the door in the social worker’s face. Nothing would change if she had her cell phone in her hand, dialing 911, the instant the door closed. This mad man still killed his children THIRTEEN MINUTES later. Even if you move the arrival times up by 5 minutes for both the Fire and Sheriff’s Departments, these children were DEAD prior to either department’s arrival.

The first deputy arrived at 12:30 to find the home engulfed in flames.

http://www.ksro.com/news/article.aspx?id=1682888

Compare that to fire crews of the Graham Fire Department.

They were dispatched at 12:17 and arrived at 12:22 for a response time of 5 minutes.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/to...ll-home-explosion/JL4ZPmylokGB2tEqH_ff5A.cspx

Post after post in this forum has accused this lady of being improperly trained and making mistakes. I just want someone to show me supporting facts when they make these accusations and not just a bunch of inflammatory IMO, JHMO, MOO diatribe. That’s going to be tough to do because the timeline established by the dispatcher’s log and simple arithmetic show her blameless.

This lady placed her life in harm’s way on behalf of these children. She should be commended for her service and NOT bashed in ceaseless fashion.

 

[Mgorules]

Here's the thing- at my job, if I don't bring my A game, ya know, it's not ideal, but worst case is we fingerpaint all morning or have a longer recess because I'm moving slower than normal.

But if my job is emergency dispatch, then the stakes are exponentially higher and if I drop the ball, potentially people can die.

I believe, IMHO, that it would have been to late for the boys anyway, but the dispatcher DID NOT KNOW THAT, and should have responded with due concern.

Maybe I couldn't have done any better, but I did not choose emergency services as my profession nor have I had training. I'm sorry but when your job is life and death I don't think you get to have an "off" day. IMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM

Exactly! And I lol'ed at fingerpaint, btw.

 

[Isabelle]

Lesson learned: if I need 911 right away because someone's life is in danger, I'm gonna say they are being held at gunpoint! Yes, I'd lie, don't care either.

 

[Isabelle]

That assumption is only safe if one chooses to ignore the timeline facts that are available at this point.



I’m tired of misinformation and outright misrepresentation being continually used to bash this social worker. She DID NOT say he locked her out 10 minutes prior to the call. What she said, at the 4:16 mark of a 6:48 long 911 call, was:



With her first 911 call being made at 12:08 pm, this means the door was slammed in her face at approximately 12:03 pm. She called 911, 5 minutes and some seconds later.

She was locked out FIVE MINUTES prior to placing the 911 call, NOT ten.



From all apparent indications, this explosion occurred at approximately 12:16 pm.



Josh Powell ignited the gasoline causing the explosion and fire which killed his children approximately THIRTEEN MINUTES after slamming the door in the social worker’s face. Nothing would change if she had her cell phone in her hand, dialing 911, the instant the door closed. This mad man still killed his children THIRTEEN MINUTES later. Even if you move the arrival times up by 5 minutes for both the Fire and Sheriff’s Departments, these children were DEAD prior to either department’s arrival.




Post after post in this forum has accused this lady of being improperly trained and making mistakes. I just want someone to show me supporting facts when they make these accusations and not just a bunch of inflammatory IMO, JHMO, MOO diatribe. That’s going to be tough to do because the timeline established by the dispatcher’s log and simple arithmetic show her blameless.

This lady placed her life in harm’s way on behalf of these children. She should be commended for her service and NOT bashed in ceaseless fashion.

Agree completely. She acted appropriately and with efficiency. Too bad her work was obstructed by the 911 operator. I've had more than my share of dealings with them and it's always an argument as to whether there is an urgency or not.

 

[annalia]

That assumption is only safe if one chooses to ignore the timeline facts that are available at this point.



I’m tired of misinformation and outright misrepresentation being continually used to bash this social worker. She DID NOT say he locked her out 10 minutes prior to the call. What she said, at the 4:16 mark of a 6:48 long 911 call, was:



With her first 911 call being made at 12:08 pm, this means the door was slammed in her face at approximately 12:03 pm. She called 911, 5 minutes and some seconds later.

She was locked out FIVE MINUTES prior to placing the 911 call, NOT ten.



From all apparent indications, this explosion occurred at approximately 12:16 pm.



Josh Powell ignited the gasoline causing the explosion and fire which killed his children approximately THIRTEEN MINUTES after slamming the door in the social worker’s face. Nothing would change if she had her cell phone in her hand, dialing 911, the instant the door closed. This mad man still killed his children THIRTEEN MINUTES later. Even if you move the arrival times up by 5 minutes for both the Fire and Sheriff’s Departments, these children were DEAD prior to either department’s arrival.




Post after post in this forum has accused this lady of being improperly trained and making mistakes. I just want someone to show me supporting facts when they make these accusations and not just a bunch of inflammatory IMO, JHMO, MOO diatribe. That’s going to be tough to do because the timeline established by the dispatcher’s log and simple arithmetic show her blameless.

This lady placed her life in harm’s way on behalf of these children. She should be commended for her service and NOT bashed in ceaseless fashion.

Thank you!

And there really isn't any way to determine precisely what time he slammed the door to be able to determine how long it took her to call 911, or that it took her too long. We're saying 12:00 but we don't know her precise arrival time at the door, could have been a few minutes after 12 which would make the time even shorter. I doubt that it was 12 on the dot when he slammed the door on her. All of her times were approximations.

 

[Basmat]

She might not have been even aware that the children were visiting that day.

I mean no disrespect toward you..

But I also do not agree with you. This PERSON knew exactly how sick and DANGEROUS her brother was and yet tried to sugar coat it with lame excuses about how HE was a victim.

Sorry, BUT I am not buying this bs.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Thank you!

There really isn't any way to determine precisely what time he slammed the door to be able to determine how long it took her to call 911, or that it took her too long. We're saying 12:00 but we don't know her precise arrival time at the door, could have been a few minutes after 12 which would make the time even shorter. I doubt that it was 12 on the dot when he slammed the door on her.

IDK about precisely, but we can get pretty darn close by considering all we do know.

(1) We know for a FACT that she called 911 at 12:08 pm.

(2) We know for a FACT that at the 4:16 mark of this 911 call she told the dispatcher the kids had been inside approximately 10 minutes at that point.

(3) This 10 minutes, less the 4 minutes and 16 second length of the call at that time, leaves 5 minutes and 44 seconds of this 10 minutes to lie before the call began at 12:08.

(4) 5 minutes and 44 seconds BEFORE 12:08 pm would put the door being slammed in her face, in the vicinity of 12:03 pm.

Obviously this 12:03 time depends on the accuracy of her 10 minute statement, but I'm betting it's pretty close.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I don't know what her specific qualifications are but I think the term "social worker" is just an easy way of explaining john q public who she was in a general sense of the word. The agency she is associated with has their requirements and overall mission statement listed on their website. It's pretty easy to find, if that helps.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

One of the aggravations of the social work profession is when people use the title generically. Just open any city paper, and we can find help wanted ads for "social workers," when in fact they don't really want social workers. It's like advertising for doctors when you really want nurses or aides or hospital receptionists. Bottom line: social workers can wear many job hats, but working certain jobs doesn't make one a social worker. Does that make any sense?

 

[Basmat]

Bless you for that. From one animal welfare person to another.
Self-preservation is instinctive though and not easy to overcome except when trained for it..

Well my toe hurt for weeks, but the rescued cat found a forever home and I'm glad I was able to help.

As far as JP and his enabling family goes...may all of them rot in eternal damnation.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

:what: Wow, just wow. So essentially every agency involved in Washington state dropped the GD ball... :banghead:

ETA: Makes you wonder how they handle "low-profile" cases involving children!

Information was sent on February 1 (a Wednesday). Visitation took place on the 5th (the next Sunday). Odds are the information hadn't even made it to DHHS by the 5th, or if it had been received, it had not been processed.

 

[cluciano63]

I would be shocked if this 911 guy even wanted to continue in his job...how could he ever trust his judgement again?

 

[elmomom]

Oh yes - yes it can! The sole person to blame is Josh Powell. He, and he alone, took those children's lives.

The laws are set up to protect the rights of the suspected criminals. It's always been that way. It may not be right, but it's the way it is. Until those laws are changed, these things will continue to happen.

Mistakes were made, no doubt. While I understand the need to learn from the mistakes made, I'm getting a little tired of the Monday morning quarterbacking.

JMO

Until a person is convicted of a crime, in this country, he is legally presumed to be innocent and afforded all of the rights of an innocent person.
The laws are NOT written to protect the suspects. The laws in our system are written to protect the INNOCENT. The laws protect me, and you, as well as anyone suspected of a crime, and I hope very much that they stay that way. Yes, some horrible evil atrocities are possible because of the way our legal system works, but many many evil atrocities are also prevented, and we are better because of it. Jmho.

 

[Florida Native]

My experience has found that the majority of 911 workers and EMT's are nothing more than frustrated wannabe's and like to be in control, in the wrong way!

Wow that is offensive to me. My Dh is a firefighter/EMT and I assure you he is NOT a frustrated wannabe. I tell you what he is though; he's the one who would have been going into that home to help those children. He's a third generation firefighter so I've been around firemen for 20 years. They are most certainly not as you describe. Sure there are a few bad apples in the bunch but you really just painted with a broad stroke there.