2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[rotterdam]

BBM

I have no idea whether 5 minutes was possible or not, even with a "balls to the wall" approach.

Remember, in full knowledge the house had exploded, it has been documented that it took the Fire Department five minutes to arrive after being dispatched, and they were only one mile away.

I've seen no information regarding how far away the first Deputy was when dispatched.

As I've pointed out in previous posts, a collective analysis of all available information indicates that the door was slammed on these little boy's lives at approximately 12:03 pm. The house exploded 13 minutes later at 12:16 pm.

Sadly, I think their fate was sealed the moment that door was slammed in the SW's face.

Their fate was sealed by letting Josh having access to them after Josh knew that the jig was up.

 

[rotterdam]

I agree. Sadly, when a Pure EVIL Monster has a plan he will follow it through one way or another. It is sickening.

Moo moo moo moo

Correct, even US presidents with plenty of protection, do get murdered sometimes and/or have a close call. A mentally wacko person will find a way.

 

[dovebar]

Their fate was sealed by letting Josh having access to them after Josh knew that the jig was up.

I'll never understand sending a kid home with a picture of the minivan mommy disappeared in, and telling the father he drew it and explained it.

 

[suzihawk]

I'll never understand sending a kid home with a picture of the minivan mommy disappeared in, and telling the father he drew it and explained it.

I must have missed that. Is there a link to where the teacher told this to Josh?

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan%20Cox%20Powell%20%20-UT-/

^ case archive main. From there you can access the 4 sub-albums.

Everything (pretty much) is in there.

 

[artzypantz]

And he said NO. And its true because she was using a cell phone. They can't really figure out an exact address for someone using a cell phone.

My own real life experience this is NOT true! They CAN find you by cell phone gps alone!

Two months ago I was driving interstate 35, 2 hours away on my way back home from work. There was some hinky activity i saw and i didnt know what county i was in but just dialed 911 on my cell to report it. I told the lady what was going on and that i was on interstate 35 & didnt know what county or the nearest town from where i was at. She hooked my call straight to the sheriffs dispatch to the county i was in. THEN the sheriffs dispatch said to me, "you just passed mile marker 123 on interstate 35, Correct?" I told her i didnt know that i wasnt looking and would look at the next mile marker i pass. Sure enough I HAD just passed mile marker 123 as she said to me! She knew that by my cell phone GPS AND I DONT EVEN HAVE A SMART PHONE!

I dont know what happened here in this case, but i know from my experience the sheriffs office knew EXACTLY where i was at the exact moment and I WAS DRIVING IN MY TRUCK AT THE TIME!

OWWW THIS MAKES ME SO UPSET!!! THE WHOLE 911 CALL WHERE HE IS PUTTING HER OFF LIKE ITS NOTHING JUST MAKES ME BOIL!!! MY OPINION IS HE SHOULD NOT BE A 911 DISPATCHER! HE SHOULD LEAVE THAT TO THOSE WHO HAVE INSTINCT AND INTUITION AND THOSE WHO LISTEN TO WHATS BEING SAID!!!!! ASKING WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, HIS HAIR COLOR AND ALL THAT CRAP WTH!!! SEND SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!

SORRY FOR THE RANT!
Artzypantz

 

[Anakerie]

My own real life experience this is NOT true! They CAN find you by cell phone gps alone!

Two months ago I was driving interstate 35, 2 hours away on my way back home from work. There was some hinky activity i saw and i didnt know what county i was in but just dialed 911 on my cell to report it. I told the lady what was going on and that i was on interstate 35 & didnt know what county or the nearest town from where i was at. She hooked my call straight to the sheriffs dispatch to the county i was in. THEN the sheriffs dispatch said to me, "you just passed mile marker 123 on interstate 35, Correct?" I told her i didnt know that i wasnt looking and would look at the next mile marker i pass. Sure enough I HAD just passed mile marker 123 as she said to me! She knew that by my cell phone GPS AND I DONT EVEN HAVE A SMART PHONE!

I dont know what happened here in this case, but i know from my experience the sheriffs office knew EXACTLY where i was at the exact moment and I WAS DRIVING IN MY TRUCK AT THE TIME!

OWWW THIS MAKES ME SO UPSET!!! THE WHOLE 911 CALL WHERE HE IS PUTTING HER OFF LIKE ITS NOTHING JUST MAKES ME BOIL!!! MY OPINION IS HE SHOULD NOT BE A 911 DISPATCHER! HE SHOULD LEAVE THAT TO THOSE WHO HAVE INSTINCT AND INTUITION AND THOSE WHO LISTEN TO WHATS BEING SAID!!!!! ASKING WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, HIS HAIR COLOR AND ALL THAT CRAP WTH!!! SEND SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!

SORRY FOR THE RANT!
Artzypantz

Not all 911 centers can easily trace a GPS signal from a cell phone.. And, not all cell phones have GPS abilities.. My own personal experience happened yesterday. I live in a very small town (About 450 people including the outlying farms.) next to a river and I had to cross the bridge to go to the next town over to the west.. As I crossed the bridge, I saw 2 teenage boys on the OUTSIDE of the barriers on the side of the bridge.. In other words, they were on the RIVER side of the barrier and trying to climb down to the turntable below. (Forgot to mention that it's a turntable bridge so that boats can go up and down river.) The side of the bridge they were on is the upstream side, so that if they fell into the river they would have been in danger of getting caught by the bridge supports.

Anyway.. I called 911 as I was driving and had to describe exactly which highway I was on, what direction I was driving and WHICH bridge I had seen the boys on. No GPS stuff, because my phone does NOT have GPS. I have no idea if LE found those boys, but since there has been no outcry that any of our neighborhood kids being missing or drowned, I am guessing that somehow the boys got safely off the side of the bridge.. I admit, I do hope that somehow the boy's parents know what their foolish kids did. The river here has taken quite a few lives over the years.

The point of my story is that our 911 center can NOT trace a GPS signal even if you DO have a "smart phone" because the county CAN'T AFFORD that kind of equipment upgrade yet.. Do you know for certain that the 911 center that covers Graham has the capabilities of tracing a GPS signal? If not, please stop condemning them for something that they may not be able to do!!!

 

[dovebar]

Thank you both for sharing those experiences. I had no idea the situation is that complex and differing from place to place.

 

[LinasK]

My own real life experience this is NOT true! They CAN find you by cell phone gps alone!

Two months ago I was driving interstate 35, 2 hours away on my way back home from work. There was some hinky activity i saw and i didnt know what county i was in but just dialed 911 on my cell to report it. I told the lady what was going on and that i was on interstate 35 & didnt know what county or the nearest town from where i was at. She hooked my call straight to the sheriffs dispatch to the county i was in. THEN the sheriffs dispatch said to me, "you just passed mile marker 123 on interstate 35, Correct?" I told her i didnt know that i wasnt looking and would look at the next mile marker i pass. Sure enough I HAD just passed mile marker 123 as she said to me! She knew that by my cell phone GPS AND I DONT EVEN HAVE A SMART PHONE!

I dont know what happened here in this case, but i know from my experience the sheriffs office knew EXACTLY where i was at the exact moment and I WAS DRIVING IN MY TRUCK AT THE TIME!

OWWW THIS MAKES ME SO UPSET!!! THE WHOLE 911 CALL WHERE HE IS PUTTING HER OFF LIKE ITS NOTHING JUST MAKES ME BOIL!!! MY OPINION IS HE SHOULD NOT BE A 911 DISPATCHER! HE SHOULD LEAVE THAT TO THOSE WHO HAVE INSTINCT AND INTUITION AND THOSE WHO LISTEN TO WHATS BEING SAID!!!!! ASKING WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE, HIS HAIR COLOR AND ALL THAT CRAP WTH!!! SEND SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!

SORRY FOR THE RANT!
Artzypantz

Only if your phone is GPS enabled, like the current generation of Iphones. We only got Iphones 3 months ago. Prior to that we had older model cell phones (mine was a flip phone) that were NOT GPS enabled- the only way to locate a phone like that is if it is on and pings off at least 3 cell towers so they can triangulate where it is likely coming from,and that still may not be exact!

 

[artzypantz]

I was in the middle of a rural iowa area and the nearest town from where i was at that time has a population of less than 300 people, very small! The county doesnt even have any towns with a population larger than 300 to 500 poeple. MY phone is NOT an iphone it is a motorola i got for a penny when i opened my cell account in 2006! FLIP PHONE also! I in my opinion think it was all just a judgment call of the 911 operator that took that SW call!

(To quote what Anakerie posted to me in reply) "Do you know for certain that the 911 center that covers Graham has the capabilities of tracing a GPS signal?"

NO Anakerie i do NOT know if Graham have the capabilities to do this as a FACT! DO YOU? I could Change MY OPINION of the situation if supplied with a fact tho!

And to quote myself from the post Anakerie replied too.......I dont know what happened here in this case, but i know from my experience the sheriffs office knew EXACTLY where i was at the exact moment and I WAS DRIVING IN MY TRUCK AT THE TIME!

My Opinion ONLY!

ArtzyPantz

 

[LinasK]

I was in the middle of a rural iowa area and the nearest town from where i was at that time has a population of less than 300 people, very small! The county doesnt even have any towns with a population larger than 300 to 500 poeple. MY phone is NOT an iphone it is a motorola i got for a penny when i opened my cell account in 2006! FLIP PHONE also! I in my opinion think it was all just a judgment call of the 911 operator that took that SW call!

(To quote what Anakerie posted to me in reply) "Do you know for certain that the 911 center that covers Graham has the capabilities of tracing a GPS signal?"

NO Anakerie i do NOT know if Graham have the capabilities to do this as a FACT! DO YOU? I could Change MY OPINION of the situation if supplied with a fact tho!

And to quote myself from the post Anakerie replied too.......I dont know what happened here in this case, but i know from my experience the sheriffs office knew EXACTLY where i was at the exact moment and I WAS DRIVING IN MY TRUCK AT THE TIME!

My Opinion ONLY!

ArtzyPantz

Your phone still must be GPS enabled in order for them to do this. My old phone was probably older than 2005, and it too was a Motorola...

In 2005, the FCC required that, for the purpose of locating cell phone callers in an emergency, when a cell phone user rang 911 it should automatically transmit information on the caller’s location to the PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point). Cell phone manufacturers responded to the new requirements (known as E911) by building phones with GPS receivers built-in that could provide location information, pinpointing a caller’s position to within 6 meters. When a caller dials 911, the GPS-enabled cell phone sends the latitude and longitude information it has received from the GPS network to their cell phone company using their cell phone network. The cell phone company releases that information to the PSAP receiving the call, so they can pinpoint the caller’s location. This is particularly useful if the person is unable to communicate their address or doesn’t know where they are.
http://gpssystems.net/cell-phone-gps-how-does-it-work/

So... it only would work if she had a GPS-enabled phone, otherwise, they'd have to use the old-fashioned triangulation method to try to determine her location.

 

[artzypantz]

Your phone still must be GPS enabled in order for them to do this. My old phone was probably older than 2005, and it too was a Motorola...

Thanks Linask for the information you provided. I have a hard time with losing calls, dropped calls, and not getting service sometimes. People tell me its because my phone is so old. I know i should get a new one but everyone else is first on the priority list and there is usually nothing left for me lol. If your phone was older than mine is you probably experience similar problems with it im guessing.
I was just thinking, i dont recall seeing any towers along the interstate in view on that route area where i called from, (but that doesnt mean there isnt any that are not in view), but my dad operates an "Interigator"(SP?) (farm equipment) not far from the area i called from, which doesnt operate off of cell towers, but by GPS Satellite remote control. Meaning, there is NO operator inside of this HUGE peice of farm equipment in the field, but he operates it from GPS remote control inside his truck from a good distance away. Maybe that is why they could pinpoint me in such an unpopulated rural area by GPS to my exact location. Maybe there is something with the satellites that work with that area.......heck i dont know all i know is they knew where i was at exactly even when i didnt lol, and it is good thing but scarey at the same time.

Well i dont know any thing about "Graham" and their technology used there, but it is my opinion that they could find where she was using GPS or cell towers, even with an old phone, and that the 911 operator statement/judgment was lacking. Right or wrong that is still my opinion.

ArtzyPantz

 

[artzypantz]

Below is a quote from a news article someone else posted on this thread......Sorry i dont recall who linked it for credit to the article........

From the Seattle Times Local News..........

Originally published February 8, 2012 at 10:57 AM | Page modified February 9, 2012 at 2:18 PM

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Agency set to investigate handling of 911 call about Josh Powell

""Orr, in his statement, said that five to six minutes elapsed between the time the caseworker's call came in and a deputy was dispatched to the Powell home. When the caseworker couldn't immediately recall the address of Powell's house, she asked the call taker if he could use GPS to track her location via her cellphone. The call taker said no.

Kris Dessen, spokeswoman for the Law Enforcement Support Agency, said that Pierce County has enhanced 911 services, which allows GPS tracking. But, she said, the tracking system is not always accurate. She said that call takers always ask a caller for the address of the incident location, as well as use GPS technology to track the location. Dessen said whether the 911 technology was able to track Sunday's call is under investigation.

He said his department is still waiting to receive a copy of the "call-and-dispatch" log from the 911 center to see exactly how long it took for deputies to respond.

Jennifer Sullivan: 206-464-8294 or [email protected]. On Twitter @SeattleSullivan.

Information from The Associated Press is included in this report."" (End quote of article)

I still feel they could have located her faster than what it took her to find his address in her car, but the 911 operator who took the call did not deem it an emergency call and i think that is why he said NO when asked about the GPS. I also feel in my opinion that if the SW was asking if he could find her by GPS, then she knew her phone was a GPS enabled phone.

I felt from the article that i am not the only one "condeming" the situation reguarding GPS and the 911 operator!

Again, My Opinion ONLY!
ArtzyPantz

 

[Concerned Papa]

Whether GPS tracking was available or not, the social worker gave this 911 operator the EXACT address, including zip code, at one minute and forty seconds into the call. For whatever reason, he didn't dispatch help for those children until SIX MINUTES AND TWENTY SECONDS later at 12:16 pm.

AFTER the house had exploded.

 

[Anakerie]

Your phone still must be GPS enabled in order for them to do this. My old phone was probably older than 2005, and it too was a Motorola...

BBM; lol.. I might have you beat.. Mine's an old Nokia and it says "Cingular" on the front of it..

Everyone seems to want to jump all over that dispatcher, the fire department, the cops who didn't drive balls to the walls to that house and the social worker who got locked out. But the fact remains, those little boys didn't have a chance in he77 once their father pulled them inside the house and locked the door. IMO, no one could have saved those children that day because their father started swinging that hatchet moments after he locked that door.

 

[LinasK]

BBM; lol.. I might have you beat.. Mine's an old Nokia and it says "Cingular" on the front of it..

Everyone seems to want to jump all over that dispatcher, the fire department, the cops who didn't drive balls to the walls to that house and the social worker who got locked out. But the fact remains, those little boys didn't have a chance in he77 once their father pulled them inside the house and locked the door. IMO, no one could have saved those children that day because their father started swinging that hatchet moments after he locked that door.

Nah, that's what my husband had...

I do think the extra minutes could have made the difference. The boys didn't die of the neck injuries, they died of smoke inhalation, and he didn't set the fire immediately. The fire department could have busted the door down with their axes and LE could have taken him out before he had a chance to set the fire. Besides, as someone else here pointed out, it wasn't the 911 operator's call to decide if it was a life-threatening emergency and delay the dispatch. He assigned it a low-priority call instead of high-priority, which would have set the engines rolling lights & siren- FULL CODE! He played God, which didn't help the boys' chances. Had they been gotten to in time, they might have been severely injured, but lived.

 

[Anakerie]

:truce: Ok. I surrender.
My opinion seems to be different from everyone else's about this stuff... I haven't seen an exact timeline for the response times for LE or the fire department, so I have no clue how many minutes it took them to arrive at that house and what the possibilities were if they had been dispatched sooner.

I guess it's time for me to go back to lurk mode... :lurk:

 

[chasing.halos]

Is anyone like me and still kind of in denial about this whole thing? I keep thinking I will wake up from this horrible nightmare.... :cry:

 

[Concerned Papa]

:truce: Ok. I surrender.
My opinion seems to be different from everyone else's about this stuff... I haven't seen an exact timeline for the response times for LE or the fire department, so I have no clue how many minutes it took them to arrive at that house and what the possibilities were if they had been dispatched sooner.

I guess it's time for me to go back to lurk mode... :lurk:

BBM

Your opinion is very similar to mine. I don't think it would have made one bit of difference if the Chief of Police AND his entire S.W.A.T. team were there when the social worker had the door slammed in her face.

Unless they brought a mind reader with them, how could anyone imagine that their father would be attacking these boys with a hatchet almost immediately after shutting the door? How could anyone imagine that he would then pour gasoline on their little bodies? How could anyone imagine that he would light a match causing the explosion and ending their lives 13 minutes after slamming the door?

I believe LE would have needed a warrant to smash the door in. How are you gonna get a warrant in 13 minutes? What kind of probable cause for this warrant could they have used without a mind reader?

 

[annalia]

BBM

Your opinion is very similar to mine. I don't think it would have made one bit of difference if the Chief of Police AND his entire S.W.A.T. team were there when the social worker had the door slammed in her face.

Unless they brought a mind reader with them, how could anyone imagine that their father would be attacking these boys with a hatchet almost immediately after shutting the door? How could anyone imagine that he would then pour gasoline on their little bodies? How could anyone imagine that he would light a match causing the explosion and ending their lives 13 minutes after slamming the door?

I believe LE would have needed a warrant to smash the door in. How are you gonna get a warrant in 13 minutes? What kind of probable cause for this warrant could they have used without a mind reader?

It's similar to mine as well.

Especially knowing there were two little boys in the house, no way would they have just rushed the house immediately upon arriving at the scene.

JMHO