4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[maconrich]

Good point. IMO BK did not remove bloody clothing at the scene but someplace on that longer route he took back to Pullman he stopped to change and/or dispose of clothing. My theory is BK had practiced that back slope before the 13th more than a few times. BK was a night runner according to his running pal who said they would run 6 to 7 miles at night. In PA evidence collected from the car there is a "reflective vest" listed. Reflective vests are great in case of a breakdown, but runners use reflective vests for safety too, especially at night. BK may have on many nights parked 2-3 miles away, ran to King Rd house, planning, watching, all without detection (airplane mode phone, car out of the neighborhood). Going up the back slope may not have taken him one minute, but bagging or wrapping the bloody knife before placing it into the car and change of gloves, the immediate clean-up, may have been the time consuming surprise he hadn't planned on taking a couple extra minutes.

Speculation only. JMO

Do you think he would have been comfortable enough to drive away from the house if he had plastic covering everything to keep the blood off? Seems like he'd either take the bloody clothes off, have the car covered, or leave a lot of potential evidence inside the car. MOO. I do think it's likely that he practiced going up and down the hill as much as he likely practiced his long drive afterwards. Assuming of course that he planned everything out ahead of time. Agree on the reflective vests and the liklihood of wearing one while running at night. So that makes sense. Interesting.

 

[Gemmie]

IMO, after watching the investigators being filmed by media, and seeing the one noise complaint video, it looked doable even to me. Sure, it's a small hill, and it's not paved, but it's a rural-ish setting in the first place. I'm guessing many a partier had parked up there and then entered through the neon-lit slider area (as opposed to that much less comely front door on the first floor).

S&BBMFF

To add to that... even LE came to the slider, and not to the front door, when they came for a noise complaint. Seems like for whatever reason that was a good entrance.

Also, I have friends who I've always gone to their back door because that was the first way I knew about (and easiest access) to their house. It wasn't until a long time later that I realized they had a front door. I always thought their "back door" was actually their "front door".

 

[Boxer]

If he was able to walk on the road (as much as possible) it would have been faster. IMO. Do you think there's a chance he went in the front door? I know it's speculation, but I'm thinking any way to get in and out without having to climb around thru the woods...

True. Walking down Queen and back around would be 200ft. More ore less. 70 steps for a tall man.
Estimate 45 seconds.

 

[maconrich]

True. Walking down Queen and back around would be 200ft. More ore less. 70 steps for a tall man.
Estimate 45 seconds.

Thanks. And that would give more time to get things out of the car and then put things in it afterwards bringing it closer to the 3 minutes the PCA seems to indicate. MOO.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Sorry, got nothing, @maconrich.

Today marks 5 months.
IME IMO Some days are harder, like anniversaries. I didn't know Maddie, Kaylee, Xana or Ethan, but I can see why they were loved and popular. What happy people. They're why I'm here. Why I suppose we are all here. In spite of disagreements, IMO we are on common ground.


Countdown to Prelim Hearing/some answers 74 days................

edit link

 

[Helechawagirl]

If he was able to walk on the road (as much as possible) it would have been faster. IMO. Do you think there's a chance he went in the front door? I know it's speculation, but I'm thinking any way to get in and out without having to climb around thru the woods...

I’m confused-always thought he entered from the “back”—sliding glass door on second floor, but LE was interested in skid marks near the “front”—first level.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Early on, someone said there was a storage place along the route he took home, but I haven’t seen anything more on that; I also wonder about the dark substance found on pillow and mattress cover. Can’t imagine him not jumping in the shower as soon as he got home. Just my wonderings.

 

[maconrich]

I’m confused-always thought he entered from the “back”—sliding glass door on second floor, but LE was interested in skid marks near the “front”—first level.

I'm not sure. The PCA doesn't say how he got inside or where he parked. Based on DM seeing a man and the footprint outside her door, they indicated he was heading to the back door / slider to leave.

From the PCA:
"The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads
investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

Since I used a quote, here's a link to the PCA

Kohberger affidavit

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Helechawagirl]

I'm not sure. The PCA doesn't say how he got inside or where he parked. Based on DM seeing a man and the footprint outside her door, they indicated he was heading to the back door / slider to leave.

From the PCA:
"The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads
investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

Since I used a quote, here's a link to the PCA

Kohberger affidavit

www.documentcloud.org

Yes. I’m aware, but nothing has been stated by LE as to which entrance they think he used. I’ve always thought (MOO) that he entered and exited via the second floor so thought he would have parked in back of the house. Time will tell.

 

[jepop]

I’m confused-always thought he entered from the “back”—sliding glass door on second floor, but LE was interested in skid marks near the “front”—first level.

Could have parked front, entered back. Could pass on foot to east or west of house. Passing along on foot right next to the east wall seems a particularly sneaky approach to me and not very taxing. If parked somewhere else that's still one possible route to the back that avoids exposure directly in front of 1122. It would involve a quick walk up the road and around to the right/south after exit (if parked up around the corner). MOO

PCA doesn't specify where he parked...elantra was recorded heading east on Queen after doing u-turn at intersection of Queen/King (probably around 4.05am) and next recorded leaving Queen at high speed at approx 4.20am (I think these times are approx to a minute as cameras tend to record in minute sections rather than by the second as I understand it). Makes sense if he was waiting for lights out as visible from his position as driver and doing passes. We don't know (or I don't!) where all the recording cameras were though I assume there was one nearby or opposite 1122 that was able to capture the elantra attempting to park per PCA (also I beleive there was footage of KG and MM being dropped home earlier that night IIRC). If the skids are his then it must have been out of that camera's range. I tend towards those skids not belonging to the elantra. I think LE was checking them out and they were probably caused by one of the parked cars or Door dash. MOO

 

[maconrich]

Yes. I’m aware, but nothing has been stated by LE as to which entrance they think he used. I’ve always thought (MOO) that he entered and exited via the second floor so thought he would have parked in back of the house. Time will tell.

Agree, and it would have been helpful if they would have given at least a bit more info -- provided they actually knew / know the answers. But maybe the gag order came into play. IMHO. I've thought the back slider door too, which is why I keep getting hung up on him tramping thru the woods to get to the house (and then back to his car). Surely the front door would have been more convenient, but perhaps a bit too well lit and visible to other houses or anyone driving by -- such as the DD driver (and the timing with that would have been interesting). At least they did imply he left thru the back door. But you're right that time will tell.

@jepop Walking up the road and around the house would help him get where he was going faster. I'm having a hard time with the woods even if he had a flashlight unless there's a spot that's not as steep that he practiced walking up and down ahead of time. Would he have had room to park in the front so he could still get out easily? Shoot - and there's the DD driver who most likely parked out front too...

 

[jepop]

All we know is that he parked out of view of the neighbor's camera, apparently making a turn into the little road that connects King Rd with the road behind (Queen Road - the original "front" of the house faced the other way).

IMO, after watching the investigators being filmed by media, and seeing the one noise complaint video, it looked doable even to me. Sure, it's a small hill, and it's not paved, but it's a rural-ish setting in the first place. I'm guessing many a partier had parked up there and then entered through the neon-lit slider area (as opposed to that much less comely front door on the first floor).

But we don't know for sure. I've got my own notions having looked at Google maps quite a bit and those early pictures on the media thread. Any man who is vaguely in shape and used to hiking or is a runner should easily be able to do what the investigators did (walk down in various ways).

I know many of us believe the tire tracks in the front of the house were made by BK's vehicle, but that's not in the PCA. I believe he could have parked above, below or to the side of the house and still made it to the deck with the slider, easily.

OTOH, perhaps he exited and/or entered through that other door (I don't think we have any mention of why they think it was the slider, but it has been reported several times before the gag order).

IMO.

Great thoughts. RBBM re the slider. Nothing in PCA about ingress but slider is mentioned re egress - perp was heading towards the slider after passing by DM. Still, strictly speaking the PCA doesn't say DM actually saw the stranger/perp leave that way, but to me it seems highly likely based on what we know. MOO

 

[jepop]

Agree, and it would have been helpful if they would have given at least a bit more info -- provided they actually knew / know the answers. But maybe the gag order came into play. IMHO. I've thought the back slider door too, which is why I keep getting hung up on him tramping thru the woods to get to the house (and then back to his car). Surely the front door would have been more convenient, but perhaps a bit too well lit and visible to other houses or anyone driving by -- such as the DD driver (and the timing with that would have been interesting). At least they did imply he left thru the back door. But you're right that time will tell.

@jepop Walking up the road and around the house would help him get where he was going faster. I'm having a hard time with the woods even if he had a flashlight unless there's a spot that's not as steep that he practiced walking up and down ahead of time. Would he have had room to park in the front so he could still get out easily? Shoot - and there's the DD driver who most likely parked out front too...

I don't know. DD driver would/could have pulled in and out behind parked cars out front. Skid marks could certainly have been left by that person who could be in a rush for benign reasons. Makes sense in lots of ways given it's Door Dash right? ;-o. Unless the front door was open, how would he get in that way. Sorry I have no ref but am almost 100% that the front had a key pad. Prior discussion on threads re how easy to break in through slider, made doubly easy if perp had checked out that way whilst watching from the tree line on prior occasions. Maybe the slider was even left unlocked (obviously speculation).

On a general note, I think there was time enough and it is not beyond the realm of possibility or even reason IMO. If he was stalking in months prior, he may have known the surrounds of the house rather well. At the moment I tend to think the killer was well prepped practically and was aware of the implications of leaving dna and wanted to minimise his chances. So I think it's possible, even likely if one imagines that was his mind space when planning, that he prepped the car with plastic sheets, maybe even the steering wheel somehow. I think he made a quick exit, possibly just ripping off a top layer of gloves before getting in his car. I think he stopped and dressed down afterwards before heading back to Pullman. Well that's my current theory anyhow! MOO

 

[maconrich]

I don't know. DD driver would/could have pulled in and out behind parked cars out front. Skid marks could certainly have been left by that person who could be in a rush for benign reasons. Makes sense in lots of ways given it's Door Dash right? ;-o. Unless the front door was open, how would he get in that way. Sorry I have no ref but am almost 100% that the front had a key pad. Prior discussion on threads re how easy to break in through slider, made doubly easy if perp had checked out that way whilst watching from the tree line on prior occasions. Maybe the slider was even left unlocked (obviously speculation).

On a general note, I think there was time enough and it is not beyond the realm of possibility or even reason IMO. If he was stalking in months prior, he may have known the surrounds of the house rather well. At the moment I tend to think the killer was well prepped practically and was aware of the implications of leaving dna and wanted to minimise his chances. So I think it's possible, even likely if one imagines that was his mind space when planning, that he prepped the car with plastic sheets, maybe even the steering wheel somehow. I think he made a quick exit, possibly just ripping off a top layer of gloves before getting in his car. I think he stopped and dressed down afterwards before heading back to Pullman. Well that's my current theory anyhow! MOO

That makes sense. I can just see him pulling up in front of the house and the DD driver pulling in behind him or vise versa. They came a bit too close to running into each other as is. But ideally, if they'd done that (in the parking lot) maybe the killer would have given up and gone home. I've heard the same about a key pad - I think Kaylee's sister was one of the ones who mentioned it early on, but I'm not sure either. And yes it's pretty easy to jimmy a sliding glass door - even I can do it (or at least I could when I was a kid - not for bad / illegal reasons). Plus like you said it could have been unlocked - not that uncommon for college age kids. IMHO. With the rest it sounds as good as anything else I've thought of or read. It wouldn't be too hard to cover the steering wheel esp if using tape. I don't think he'd have wanted to drive around for long with all the plastic, the bloody clothes and knife in case he got pulled over by the cops (which seems to be something that might happen to him often enough). MOO. But yes, a good theory!

Edited to add link to Kaylee's sister talking about the key pad:

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[jepop]

That makes sense. I can just see him pulling up in front of the house and the DD driver pulling in behind him or vise versa. They came a bit too close to running into each other as is. But ideally, if they'd done that (in the parking lot) maybe the killer would have given up and gone home. I've heard the same about a key pad - I think Kaylee's sister was one of the ones who mentioned it early on, but I'm not sure either. And yes it's pretty easy to jimmy a sliding glass door - even I can do it (or at least I could when I was a kid - not for bad / illegal reasons). Plus like you said it could have been unlocked - not that uncommon for college age kids. IMHO. With the rest it sounds as good as anything else I've thought of or read. It wouldn't be too hard to cover the steering wheel esp if using tape. I don't think he'd have wanted to drive around for long with all the plastic, the bloody clothes and knife in case he got pulled over by the cops (which seems to be something that might happen to him often enough). MOO. But yes, a good theory!

Edited to add link to Kaylee's sister talking about the key pad:

MSN

www.msn.com

I've thought that killer missed that DD driver by a few minutes, DD dropping the delivery at 4 and elantra entering Queen street at 4.04am. Would have been close though. But that's a good point I hadn't fully considered before, the DD driver could have been pulling out of the front as the perp passed by at 4.04amish. LE would know precise times for the DD drop off, and I think we will learn more down the track because of relevance to timeline. Maybe that driver saw the elantra and will be called as witness..who knows and one more wait and see. MOO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

That makes sense. I can just see him pulling up in front of the house and the DD driver pulling in behind him or vise versa. They came a bit too close to running into each other as is. But ideally, if they'd done that (in the parking lot) maybe the killer would have given up and gone home. I've heard the same about a key pad - I think Kaylee's sister was one of the ones who mentioned it early on, but I'm not sure either. And yes it's pretty easy to jimmy a sliding glass door - even I can do it (or at least I could when I was a kid - not for bad / illegal reasons). Plus like you said it could have been unlocked - not that uncommon for college age kids. IMHO. With the rest it sounds as good as anything else I've thought of or read. It wouldn't be too hard to cover the steering wheel esp if using tape. I don't think he'd have wanted to drive around for long with all the plastic, the bloody clothes and knife in case he got pulled over by the cops (which seems to be something that might happen to him often enough). MOO. But yes, a good theory!

Edited to add link to Kaylee's sister talking about the key pad:

MSN

www.msn.com

LE did say no forcible entry.

 

[jepop]

Good point. IMO BK did not remove bloody clothing at the scene but someplace on that longer route he took back to Pullman he stopped to change and/or dispose of clothing. My theory is BK had practiced that back slope before the 13th more than a few times. BK was a night runner according to his running pal who said they would run 6 to 7 miles at night. In PA evidence collected from the car there is a "reflective vest" listed. Reflective vests are great in case of a breakdown, but runners use reflective vests for safety too, especially at night. BK may have on many nights parked 2-3 miles away, ran to King Rd house, planning, watching, all without detection (airplane mode phone, car out of the neighborhood). Going up the back slope may not have taken him one minute, but bagging or wrapping the bloody knife before placing it into the car and change of gloves, the immediate clean-up, may have been the time consuming surprise he hadn't planned on taking a couple extra minutes.

Speculation only. JMO

That's interesting about the reflective vest and the night running. Speculating- At present, I'm with you re the quick getaway then stopping en route to change more thoroughly. The more I think about the c15 mins of unaccounted time between 4.20am leaving Queen Street and 4.48am when BK's phone reconnects to the network near Blaine, the more I think that it was then that he may have stopped to clean up. So within 5-7 mins of pulling out he could be on some backroad south or south-east of Moscow and stripping down/calming down/realising sheath missing/rolling up plastic over seats. MOO

 

[OnaZgSleuth]

I am new here and first of all, I would like to say how impressed I am with all that you are doing here in helping to solve the crime. I followed the discussion for a while and I do hope I got the gist of how to post but if I make any faux pas please do not take it against me

Regarding the probable cause affidavit - PCA Kohberger I have a few things that I noticed that are just not sitting right with me:

"D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Goncalves playing wilh her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor."

On the other hand, we get this information from the camera (which in MOO should be more accurate time-wise than witness perception) where it says that the camera recorded the dog barking starting at 4:17 am:

"At approximately 4:17 am., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 am. The security camera is less than fifty feet from the west wall of Kernodle's bedroom."

However, Kohberger was already seen leaving 1122 King Road at 4:20 as per PCA and it was footage from multiple videos in the neighborhood - so again cameras time wise should be pretty accurate:

"A review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood strowed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood strowed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive."

It is all MOO IMOO and I might be just a newbie but from the PCA it looks as if Kohberger had only 3 minutes from the dog barking (4:17 am) because dog would start barking immediately during the first attack on the second floor ( I was thinking that maybe this discrepancy was because of the camera being activated only at 4:17 for the first time but it says that dog was heard multiple times and it seems continuous recording starting at 4:17) and leaving at 4:20 am. Maybe someone can shed some light on this and help me to think better about it. I am truly confused in MOO IMOO and would like your view of this.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am new here and first of all, I would like to say how impressed I am with all that you are doing here in helping to solve the crime. I followed the discussion for a while and I do hope I got the gist of how to post but if I make any faux pas please do not take it against me

Regarding the probable cause affidavit - PCA Kohberger I have a few things that I noticed that are just not sitting right with me:

"D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Goncalves playing wilh her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor."

On the other hand, we get this information from the camera (which in MOO should be more accurate time-wise than witness perception) where it says that the camera recorded the dog barking starting at 4:17 am:

"At approximately 4:17 am., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 am. The security camera is less than fifty feet from the west wall of Kernodle's bedroom."

However, Kohberger was already seen leaving 1122 King Road at 4:20 as per PCA and it was footage from multiple videos in the neighborhood - so again cameras time wise should be pretty accurate:

"A review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood strowed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings review of footage from multiple videos obtained from the King Road Neighborhood strowed multiple sightings of Suspect Vehicle I starting at 3:29 a.m. and ending at 4:20 a.m. These sightings show Suspect Vehicle I makes an initial three passes by the 1122 King Road residence and then leave via Walenta Drive."

It is all MOO IMOO and I might be just a newbie but from the PCA it looks as if Kohberger had only 3 minutes from the dog barking (4:17 am) because dog would start barking immediately during the first attack on the second floor ( I was thinking that maybe this discrepancy was because of the camera being activated only at 4:17 for the first time but it says that dog was heard multiple times and it seems continuous recording starting at 4:17) and leaving at 4:20 am. Maybe someone can shed some light on this and help me to think better about it. I am truly confused in MOO IMOO and would like your view of this.

Just wanted to say welcome! Hope you'll stick around!

IMO, we don't yet know all those details. I think DM didn't hear barking, but rather probably heard Kaylee leaving the dog in her room as she (Kaylee) went to Maddie's room because she heard something. The dog (Murphy) may not have realized anything was wrong initially and may have started barking at 4:17 either because he heard sounds of a struggle and was barking for his person or was waiting for Kaylee to return. It could also be that BK killed Kaylee and Maddie quickly and headed downstairs. Murphy may have heard the fight between Xana and BK or Ethan and BK on the 2nd floor and that could have prompted the barking.

The timeline is very tight, which has never sat well with me.

All above MOO.

 

[OnaZgSleuth]

Just wanted to say welcome! Hope you'll stick around!

IMO, we don't yet know all those details. I think DM didn't hear barking, but rather probably heard Kaylee leaving the dog in her room as she (Kaylee) went to Maddie's room because she heard something. The dog (Murphy) may not have realized anything was wrong initially and may have started barking at 4:17 either because he heard sounds of a struggle and was barking for his person or was waiting for Kaylee to return. It could also be that BK killed Kaylee and Maddie quickly and headed downstairs. Murphy may have heard the fight between Xana and BK or Ethan and BK on the 2nd floor and that could have prompted the barking.

The timeline is very tight, which has never sat well with me.

All above MOO.

Thank you so much. Happy to be here