4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[Helechawagirl]

It's certainly possible that he felt hopeless as his own life plans were falling apart.

But one thing that has struck me since the beginning of this case is his large and so-far-maintained weight loss as a teenager. That is something that many many people struggle with their whole lives without the kind of long-term success BK has achieved. (and even if he accomplished it in part by using drugs, he has maintained it without (as far as we know) continuing to use heroin).

It struck me right away that this accomplishment might have given him confidence and a mindset that "he could achieve anything he put his mind to". Which, for most people, I would say that's a positive thing, assuming they don't desire to be a murderer.

Another reason I don't think the crime was his way of lashing out against his life falling apart is -- I think the draw toward studying criminal justice in the first place was an indication of his already-present compulsion to kill. Of course that isn't true for every CJ student, but for him it's my opinion that it was connected. And if not from the start, then definitely by the time he designed the survey for uncaught criminals.

MOO

You could be right. I truly have no idea and we may never know—even if he is guilty.

 

[Gemmie]

RSBM

When this was discussed in the early threads, some of us thought there were some neon-type signs and fairy light strings that would likely have been on. Not bright, but enough to navigate the house by. (though whether that step mid-house would have been visible to an unsuspecting intruder, who knows). I suppose we won't know for sure until one of the survivors speaks about it. MOO

IMO he'd either had to have seen the step either by "night" lights in the house or by a flashlight/phone, otherwise he'd have tripped on that step. If pitch dark and no flashlight (I doubt it) then he'd have had to have known the layout and that the step was there. He would have made so much noise and likely landed on his face, or did a face-plant into a wall (like I did once when I tripped over a cord).

I doubt he didn't have a flashlight of some sort with him like he had in the kitchen in the middle of the night at his parents house. You know the one I'm talking about... his trusty silver flashlight.

A silver flashlight, medical-style gloves, and dark clothing were among the items seized from Bryan Kohberger when he was arrested at his parents' house in Pennsylvania

According to the search warrant, police seized a silver flashlight, four medical-style gloves, a large white Arizona Jean Co. T-shirt, a black sweatshirt, a pair of black-and-white sneakers, socks, shorts, boxer shorts, and one buccal swab when they arrested Kohberger.

A Newly Unsealed Search Warrant Reveals The Items That Were Seized During The Arrest Of Bryan Kohberger In Pennsylvania

The 28-year-old was arrested on Dec. 30 in connection with the brutal murders of four University of Idaho students on Nov. 13.View Entire Post ›

money.yahoo.com

 

[jepop]

I appreciate you double checking the date. To me it seemed significant that he would have this stressful conversation with a prof and go out that night armed with a knife at 4:00am.
I am glad you corrected this assumption.

It is really important to look at what a suspect was doing in the months before and after their crimes.

Many defendants leave NO DNA or fingerprints behind and get convicted by some of what they did before and after.

A father and his 2 sons, in southern Ohio, went out at night and murdered 7 people in a family plus the finance of one of them. Some were murdered only because they were there.

They left no DNA or fingerprints but they did leave shell casings and bloody footprints. But that wasn't enough to convict all 4, including the mother who helped plan it.

The investigators gathered alot of evidence of what the 4 did before and after the murders including their interactions with the victims that would precipitate a strong motive. This included digital evidence and purchase history and Other Acts Evidence.

Just because LE can't 100% prove BK was in the house is...well...par for the course. How do you prove any murderer was at the scene without a witness seeing him/her? Without clear video evidence? Without the killer's DNA directly on the victims or directly on the killer's belongings/in their car?

It gets proven by the circumstantial evidence at the scene and by evidence collected before and after the crimes.

So what is there so far from before? I'm not seeing much of significance from after the murders but it only took them 47 days to arrest him.

Video evidence of the car. (multiple)
Phone records. (multiple)
Possible social media connections.
Past problems with women including accusations of not treating his women students fairly.
Staring down women on the Idaho campus.
Criminal studies in college.
Reddit questionnaire inviting felons to spell out their motivations for their crimes.
No alibi.
Familiar with the area and in close proximity to the King Rd. house.
Clues in evidence collected in searches.
Other Acts Evidence if allowed in by the judge.

I think anything significant found in relation to afterwards would be if they found evidence in their searches such as blood in his car, receipts showing a knife or other "murder kit" purchases, "trophies" collected from victims, information on his computer about the victims such as the floor plan of their home.

If BK is the killer and targeted this specific house, what was to stop him from accessing online information like we do on here? Nothing. He could have researched information about the house and it's layout. Heck, he could have called up the landlords and asked for information pretending to be a potential renter.

LE is looking for any and all connections there could be to BK and the victims. If they do not find any:

Digital evidence.
Trophies.
Physical evidence.
Murder Kit purchases.

That ties BK to the murders then the prosecution better hope their DNA evidence is strong.

As regards before, the search warrants for both residences and WSU office contained extremely detailed specifications for digital devices. Investigators are looking far and wide.
I'm pretty curious about the total lack of phone pinging off Moscow towers after November 14th in contrast to before from what we know so far. MOO

ETAh, forgot to add, I agree that a strong circumstantial case can be enough for BARD. If what we have so far from the PCA is expanded upon and tightened up and there's been due diligence eliminating other possibilities (Both Soddi and suspect alibi) then...we'll see. I think LE knows where every other male owned 2011-2015 elantra registered to an address in Pullman was not in the early hours of Nov 13th (or perhaps this is just a case of MWS, thank you @russoca because I love this acronym), and only BK's was found to be heading off at ten to three, and on the road south of Moscow at ten to five. How many white elantras, minus front no plates, were cruising Moscow 3-4am Nov 13th I wonder? Suspect vehicle 1 had no front number plate. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

When I graduated in 1983 it was 120, but perhaps it may depend on type of College/University? Interesting overall...I suppose why Degrees from some colleges/Universities are more valued by employers.

There are two different systems (both based on something called the Carnegie Unit). By and large, similar classes all around the US have similar units. But a 3 unit class in the semester system = 4 unit class in the quarter system, and total number of units for a B.A./B.S. vary accordingly. So it's usually 160 for the quarter system.

There are ranking lists of where schools stand in relationship to each other (WSU ranks above DeSales in criminal justice - DeSales has no criminology program, that's one reason it's a bit lower.)

I think a lot of people would say U Penn and UC Irvine are near the top of the list, with the University of Maryland probably up there, enough to call it a three-way tie. OTOH, one probably can't beat Harvard for that extra drop of prestige. I rank UC Irvine above UC Berkeley, but Berkeley is often in the top three on various ranking systems.

WSU is middle of the pack (there are about 180 programs that award a doctorate in Criminology).

Unit value doesn't make a difference (Harvard, I think, is quarter system; almost certain Berkeley is too; pretty sure WSU is semester and U Penn may be as well).

IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

As do I. I just find it premature, I guess, to conclude there are a lot of holes in a case, or find one to be a slam dunk, at a point when so much remains unknown. Of course, maybe folks mean "based on what we know today" by default and I am just failing to read that into it. I'm also aware that there may be as many definitions of "beyond a reasonable doubt" as there are people on a jury. I once sat on a jury where the prosecution did everything but let the accused shoot the victim again in front of the jury, only for one jury member to begin by saying she felt the prosecution just hadn't proven their case. We got to a verdict, and it wasn't particularly painful, but there sure were some funny looks around the table when she said that. LOL

Several of us have said based on what we know today, for a fact, there are holes. That's all I'm speaking to and based on their posts, I believe that's all the other posters are speaking to as well. I haven't seen anyone say the prosecution's case has holes. None of us know the prosecution's case, so I agree that would be premature. We're only speaking about what's known today. There are others who don't get our opinion, and that's fine. It's ok to disagree.

 

[DrQ]

IMHO As with all cases theories, speculation, ideas, and specific knowledge of situations all can be relevant or not to a case. This is a difficult and sad case. The gag orders (which seem relevant to this case) are in place for both the defense and prosecution. Juries today many times would prefer seeing the killing on CCTV or social media before believing the possibility that some one committed a crime. Having served on multiple juries with two being murder trials, it is difficult to make those decisions analytically versus emotionally. No one wants to believe some one is capable of doing the things that people do to others. The two murder juries I was on resulted in one guilty verdict and one not guilty. Sadly the not guilty verdict should have been guilty but some evidence was not admissible. However, the not guilty individual was being extradited to stand trial for a multiple murder case and was eventually found guilty.

If BK did not do this then the next step is to suggest who did. Nothing points to it being a member of the house. Again, JMO BK, regardless of anything else, has shown behavior that is hinky. Does that make him the killer no but DNA would. BK, of course, is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his "peers".

JMO but it seems like the length of time BK or whoever was in the house and committed the murders actually took longer to murder four young people with one being a young athletic man. Because two of the victims were still awake, that may have added the time. Only BK (who is currently under arrest for these crimes) actually knows ALL of the details, planning, and motive for taking the lives of four young people. My guess, he is not the talking type. If found guilty, I would not expect to hear him say anything. Ted Bundy only began talking when his execution date was in place.

The saddest thing for me would be BK going free for some technical mess up or a jury that is unrealistic in expectations. Most cases are circumstantial. You rarely see a case where Miss Scarlett is found standing over Col. Mustard with a knife in the conservatory. Personally, my mind will remain open to all possibilities.

I cannot even begin to imagine how awful this will be for the families and their grief and healing during this long ordeal. Having to reopen those wounds every day for how ever long a trial takes will be torture. If I were the defense attorney, starting the trial near the anniversary date of the murders would NOT be on my to do list.

 

[maskedwoman]

I am interested in what holes you see.

That's a fair question. And I'm sorry that I can't seem to make a short post. I am definitely a "painter" when I communicate, rather than a "pointer".

Right now, to me, the night of the murders looks like a very large puzzle with several small to medium groups of pieces put together and scattered around the table. Each group of pieces illustrates part of that night's events. I can generally see where in the puzzle those pieces belong, and they reveal enough to show us that 4 people died horribly, and how they honed in on BK as the suspect. The DNA on the sheath is probably worth at least one whole puzzle edge put together.

Now, there may be DNA elsewhere. We don't yet know. If so, it's likely that the sheath will be used not only to prove BK possessed the weapon, but that he was in the house AND at the victim's side during the crime - which will neuter a defense claim that BK's DNA found anywhere else was deposited in the house at some other time during a party. But, until then, we only have DNA on the sheath. Only a general idea of where in the puzzle it fits.

We have the latent footprint in the hallway. Without context, we only know it as a single footprint. Once it's put into context during the trial, we'll probably know it as one of numerous footprints leading from one of the pools of blood to that spot, getting fainter as the killer walked. Logically, I can't see LE mentioning one footprint that doesn't tie to anything else at the scene. So I'm waiting to see what other pieces will be revealed.

We have various pieces of video and the cell phone data, but it's been pointed out that none of that puts him in the house as far as we know. But it's certainly possible that someone's security video captured a man either entering or leaving, or getting into the Elantra afterward. We don't yet know. If so, it would provide context and put more of those puzzle pieces into place.

So, it's not that I necessarily see holes. I see blank areas where the pieces that provide context have yet to be revealed to us. Do I think BK did it? At this point, I do. And I'm pretty confident that LE did not use their best evidence in the PCA, so I am expecting to hear some pretty damning new evidence at the Preliminary Hearing. I'm not prepared to assume anything is an actual hole in the case until I start becoming worried about how many puzzle pieces still haven't found their place in the puzzle.

Does that help?

 

[whiterhino]

Interesting thoughts about the timing. I'll just add we have no idea about how dark the house was. I personally think 12, 14, 15 minutes (ballpark) is plenty of time. I do appreciate the discussion and all the scenarios/opinions, I'll agree there are many unconfirmed pieces to this puzzle with the limited info we have. I will be very interested when the hearing takes place in a couple months.

RBBM

This has been mentioned a number of times. JMO even if the "main" house lights were off (for ex overhead lights in the rooms, kitchen etc) the housemates could have been using their phone screens, laptop/monitor/tv as lighting. Even something like a USB or battery operated lamp or something. *eta: I see @Auntie Cipation was ahead of me!

 

[Cool Cats]

As regards before, the search warrants for both residences and WSU office contained extremely detailed specifications for digital devices. Investigators are looking far and wide.
I'm pretty curious about the total lack of phone pinging off Moscow towers after November 14th in contrast to before from what we know so far. MOO

ETAh, forgot to add, I agree that a strong circumstantial case can be enough for BARD. If what we have so far from the PCA is expanded upon and tightened up and there's been due diligence eliminating other possibilities (Both Soddi and suspect alibi) then...we'll see. I think LE knows where every other male owned 2011-2015 elantra registered to an address in Pullman was not in the early hours of Nov 13th (or perhaps this is just a case of MWS, thank you @russoca because I love this acronym), and only BK's was found to be heading off at ten to three, and on the road south of Moscow at ten to five. How many white elantras, minus front no plates, were cruising Moscow 3-4am Nov 13th I wonder? Suspect vehicle 1 had no front number plate. MOO

I edited my post to include I do not think video car and phone evidence alone is enough for BARD. The video doesn't show him in the car but it is strong circumstantial evidence. Especially, as you point out, if they meticulously tracked where all the other Elantras were parked that night, what a job. The phone pinging doesn't prove he was on King Rd but the time is suspicious. Especially if the defense offers zero explanation for why he was visiting Moscow late night early morning. If innocent it would be easy to prove why he was in Moscow that late.

Interesting what you pointed out - great catch:

"the total lack of phone pinging off Moscow towers after November 14th"

This is something for me to add to the evidence after the murders. This, to me, adds to the circumstantial evidence. You have a suspect obsessively driving to Moscow 12 times, 11 times late night early morning, and using the same cell tower that the 4 murder victims used from their home.

Then suddenly the day after the murders, that all stops. BK was still in town another month but his phone doesn't show activity with the victims' cell tower like it did before the murders..Hummm....

2 Cents

 

[10ofRods]

To be fair, in the video, it looks like the officers went down a few different ways -- some easier than others. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if others did the same. They still had the advantage of the daylight and being able to stand in the parking lot and the road beside the house and see ways down that didn't look as challenging. The killer could have done the same, even if it would have been risky. Or he simply spent enough time observing (at night) and with a little trial and error found the path he'd take. And once he did, I'm inclined to believe he practiced going up and down until he was completely comfortable doing so.
With where he parked, I think the tight time line in the PCA comes into play as much as the route he walked. - Also taking into consideration that he needed to park somwhere close but not overly obvious (to anyone passing by etc). IMHO it seems like if he came down thru the woods, he most likely parked in the parking lot above the house. If he came in from the front he could have parked along the side road, or up in the top parking lot. As crowded as the parking in front of the house was, it seems like a less likely choice, but who knows?

Or, as some of us do, he went walking in various places (he was from the Poconos) at night, up and down little hills, since childhood. In the dark.

We kids played outside in the early part of the evening when we were little and then to midnight or longer in high school. It's not the hard, especially if the moon is out. See @Boxer's post about the moon (at 80% illumination, nearly overhead at, so still up at 4 am not setting until dawn).

It's just not that hard, even in new terrain (we do a lot of camping, we sometimes arrive in the middle of the night in a place without any urban lighting and after a few minutes outside the car, everyone in our family is able to gather up stuff, set up the tent, etc., without a flashlight or headlamp - that disturbs wildlife and other campers). We do have headlamps just in case. But giving up one's night vision to use a regular headlamp means a person stumbles around until they adjust again - that's why most headlamps have a red light on them as well (as does my Apple watch, which is what I use for illumination as needed).

None of us knows where he parked, except that it was not in front of the house, as I understand it, because that section was viewable from a camera nearby, but ICBW. He could definitely have parked on the road north of the house (can't remember if there are cameras there) and come down that hill at night, IMO.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

oh wait, they're on the road? I thought they were in the parking lot out front of 1122. Well if on the road, they could have been left by the elantra on the way out? maybe?!

ETA: I never read up on the tire marks reported in the press. I always assumed (wrongly) that they were in the parking lot of 1122 (never verified it personally which is very unwise). If onthe road then could have been left by the elantra, by DD, someone else/a resident? Did LE ever release anything about them? They aren't evidence that we know of at this point right?

MOO

ETA: 2.Hard to see from the photos in the article but could be when elantra attempted its turn/park in front of 1122 per PCA, could be DD backing out of 1122 parking lot.

I don't think there ever was anything except that one photo of LE examining some fairly deep tire marks near the front of the property (which to me isn't necessarily consistent with the direction of travel I feel we have been told - exiting via Walenta). So maybe of no consequence?

It's true he could have made those prints on one of his previous passes (it's so weird that he drives by 3-4 times, not exactly stealthy).

Now I'm wondering if he watched them through Maddie's window that night, from up on Queen Road.

But I don't think LE has mentioned a word about those tire tracks, IMO.

 

[DizzyB]

Now that you mention it (in bold), I think that is one of the things that doesn't make sense. Was Xana waiting for her food in the dark? Did she eat in the dark? It's possible that she did. However, if she didn't, her light would have been visible from the street indicating that there was a probability that someone was awake and where that someone was located.

If the killer knew the layout of the house, he may have concluded that though Xana was likely awake, he could get in and out without disturbing her. Neither her room nor the bathroom appear to be visible from the 3rd floor staircase. (Yes, i'm arguing both points). That would still be risky. Perhaps that explains the trips around the house

I do wonder if BK had one target, and thought he could stealthily get in and out undiscovered. Was he surprised that M&K were in bed together, and then changed his plan? Changed again when X said that someone was there? Definitely a lot to wonder about. He did not have a long time to adjust to the darkness, given the timeline and when his car first approached the area. Even if he regularly watched the house, how could he know there wouldn’t be someone asleep on a living room sofa, or even browsing their social media while sitting in the kitchen? It feels like the decision to enter, that it was going to happen that night, was made before he even parked the car. I think he was going to do this that night, even if he was captured or killed in the act.

 

[jepop]

I don't think there ever was anything except that one photo of LE examining some fairly deep tire marks near the front of the property (which to me isn't necessarily consistent with the direction of travel I feel we have been told - exiting via Walenta). So maybe of no consequence?

It's true he could have made those prints on one of his previous passes (it's so weird that he drives by 3-4 times, not exactly stealthy).

Now I'm wondering if he watched them through Maddie's window that night, from up on Queen Road.

But I don't think LE has mentioned a word about those tire tracks, IMO.

Yeah, I'm not sure. @gliving posted this video of ISP measuring and photographing them on Nov 19th and asked about their relevance so I had a look at it. They are located on Queen Road in front and to the west of 1122 as far as I can ascertain from the video. I thought that they could have been made by the elantra when it was attempting its turn in front of 1122 as per PCA. But basically that was just a guess as I have no idea how to analyse tyre tracks or what direction of travel they indicate. @Montecore1 has posted nearby and says they are take off marks not reverse marks. The video posted by @gliving is just up-thread from here.

Some have posited that those forensic results may be with the State's evidence which could be the case even if they prove to be ultimately irrelevent (made by a vehicle unrelated to the crime)? I agree that there's never been any mention by LE about the tracks in the PCA or by press release. MOO

ETA: Just thought of something. Now BK's car is seized, if those tracks weren't already matched to an unrelated car, forensics would have since compared them with the elantra, IMO. That would be some piece of evidence if they are shown to match.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I wonder what the minimum amount of time would be for LE in this case to get DNA results back, typically. Or if they were able to submit some samples as a priority (like the knife sheath) on a rush TAT (turnaround time), and how much that might increase the TAT. Maybe with FBI's assistance prioritizing the analyses over other cases at contracted labs, or even farming them out to supporting "overflow" labs if the main lab was overwhelmed, which I could easily imagine.

The sheer volume of samples potentially collected and DNA and other kinds of testing needed to sort out what happened and who the perpetrator(s) could be from such a horrific crime scene in a house rented by coeds who were known to host gatherings is mind boggling, IMO ! I'd lose count trying to add them all up in my head with all those door knobs, handles, faucets, windows, household and personal items for that many people, and from the bodies of the victims and bloody surfaces...

47 days passed between the murders on November 13th and the time BK was arrested on December 30th. Assuming it took a few days to write, vet, and approve the PCA, let's say there was a 45 day window for DNA tests to be processed from the crime scene.

So all we know at this point about DNA testing TAT is by well before December 30th LE had the DNA results back on the knife sheath, and then other DNA testing followed that allowed them to match the DNA on the knife sheath to BK's father per the PCA.

So 2 DNA test results were in the hands of LE within less than 45 days, one from the sheath and one from BK's father.

But how many more dozens or hundreds of DNA samples were stacked up behind any priority samples that came in after the PCA waiting to be tested and "backfill" any holes in the ongoing investigation?

For example, what if there was an unknown person's DNA mixed in with a sample of blood from one of the victims, and it took awhile for the lab to analyze a mixed DNA sample, and months later it came back as inconclusive because there was so much more victim DNA?

IIRC, this kind of thing happened in the Jennifer Farber Dulos disappearance case - DNA on a sink faucet near where they found her blood contained a mixture of several people's DNA and cleaning fluids, including her estranged husband, but they couldn't be sure how fresh his DNA was, if it had been left there the day of her disappearance, before her disappearance from when he lived there before, or was from one of their sons (it was male DNA, IIRC) because it was so diluted or degraded.

Anyway, there should be many DNA sample results that have trickled in since the new year and the time of the PCA if they were backlogged, IMO, and with DNA collected directly from BK since his arrest, and probably his car and apartment and parent's house since then.

I would be very surprised if BK's DNA wasn't found elsewhere in all the samples collected from the house at 1122 King Rd & if none of the victims' DNA was found in his car, apartment or parents' house.

MOO

 

[Helechawagirl]

IMHO As with all cases theories, speculation, ideas, and specific knowledge of situations all can be relevant or not to a case. This is a difficult and sad case. The gag orders (which seem relevant to this case) are in place for both the defense and prosecution. Juries today many times would prefer seeing the killing on CCTV or social media before believing the possibility that some one committed a crime. Having served on multiple juries with two being murder trials, it is difficult to make those decisions analytically versus emotionally. No one wants to believe some one is capable of doing the things that people do to others. The two murder juries I was on resulted in one guilty verdict and one not guilty. Sadly the not guilty verdict should have been guilty but some evidence was not admissible. However, the not guilty individual was being extradited to stand trial for a multiple murder case and was eventually found guilty.

If BK did not do this then the next step is to suggest who did. Nothing points to it being a member of the house. Again, JMO BK, regardless of anything else, has shown behavior that is hinky. Does that make him the killer no but DNA would. BK, of course, is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his "peers".

JMO but it seems like the length of time BK or whoever was in the house and committed the murders actually took longer to murder four young people with one being a young athletic man. Because two of the victims were still awake, that may have added the time. Only BK (who is currently under arrest for these crimes) actually knows ALL of the details, planning, and motive for taking the lives of four young people. My guess, he is not the talking type. If found guilty, I would not expect to hear him say anything. Ted Bundy only began talking when his execution date was in place.

The saddest thing for me would be BK going free for some technical mess up or a jury that is unrealistic in expectations. Most cases are circumstantial. You rarely see a case where Miss Scarlett is found standing over Col. Mustard with a knife in the conservatory. Personally, my mind will remain open to all possibilities.

I cannot even begin to imagine how awful this will be for the families and their grief and healing during this long ordeal. Having to reopen those wounds every day for how ever long a trial takes will be torture. If I were the defense attorney, starting the trial near the anniversary date of the murders would NOT be on my to do list.

I would expect defense to stall as long as they can. Routine tactic. JMO

 

[Boxer]

That's a fair question. And I'm sorry that I can't seem to make a short post. I am definitely a "painter" when I communicate, rather than a "pointer".

Right now, to me, the night of the murders looks like a very large puzzle with several small to medium groups of pieces put together and scattered around the table. Each group of pieces illustrates part of that night's events. I can generally see where in the puzzle those pieces belong, and they reveal enough to show us that 4 people died horribly, and how they honed in on BK as the suspect. The DNA on the sheath is probably worth at least one whole puzzle edge put together.

Now, there may be DNA elsewhere. We don't yet know. If so, it's likely that the sheath will be used not only to prove BK possessed the weapon, but that he was in the house AND at the victim's side during the crime - which will neuter a defense claim that BK's DNA found anywhere else was deposited in the house at some other time during a party. But, until then, we only have DNA on the sheath. Only a general idea of where in the puzzle it fits.

We have the latent footprint in the hallway. Without context, we only know it as a single footprint. Once it's put into context during the trial, we'll probably know it as one of numerous footprints leading from one of the pools of blood to that spot, getting fainter as the killer walked. Logically, I can't see LE mentioning one footprint that doesn't tie to anything else at the scene. So I'm waiting to see what other pieces will be revealed.

We have various pieces of video and the cell phone data, but it's been pointed out that none of that puts him in the house as far as we know. But it's certainly possible that someone's security video captured a man either entering or leaving, or getting into the Elantra afterward. We don't yet know. If so, it would provide context and put more of those puzzle pieces into place.

So, it's not that I necessarily see holes. I see blank areas where the pieces that provide context have yet to be revealed to us. Do I think BK did it? At this point, I do. And I'm pretty confident that LE did not use their best evidence in the PCA, so I am expecting to hear some pretty damning new evidence at the Preliminary Hearing. I'm not prepared to assume anything is an actual hole in the case until I start becoming worried about how many puzzle pieces still haven't found their place in the puzzle.

Does that help?

Yes it does. The thing is that all the pieces will not be known, as the witnesses to those pieces of puzzle are dead.
A few recent movies have been made about ghosts of victims trying help police solve the crime against them, but sadly in reality unless the killer reveals the details, some of those pieces will be forever dark.
Without continuous video coverage, like criminals who Facebook Live their crime, MOO parts of this crime between keypoints will remain dark.

However the picture made of the main pieces can show what happened to the degree it's beyond a reasonable doubt where guilt for the murders lies.

 

[Sundog]

Another reason I don't think the crime was his way of lashing out against his life falling apart is -- I think the draw toward studying criminal justice in the first place was an indication of his already-present compulsion to kill. Of course that isn't true for every CJ student, but for him it's my opinion that it was connected. And if not from the start, then definitely by the time he designed the survey for uncaught criminals.

MOO

<snipped for focus>

Along similar lines, my own opinion at this time is that BK's studies at DeSales with a famous professor who studies mass murderers is connected to the mass murders he is accused of in Idaho. I don't think studying criminal justice was based on an already-formed compulsion to kill, but that there was already some underlying compulsion (not sure of the right word/term) that took shape as a result of his studies. For some reason, he went there.

Given the evidence and info on BK that we have up until now, this is JMO/speculation.

 

[Cool Cats]

RBBM to say This!

Not to mention: (JMO speculation) BK wasn't just obsessed and taking a chance, BK was taking a risk which IMO is a thrill seeking component. The thrill of stalking/surveilling, repeated "visits" were probably a rush for BK.

A dispute within the workplace could be considered a personal conflict AKA precipitating factor (JMO). The timing is IMO an important point. Not to mention KG was moving away and BK wouldn't have this chance again.

Agree, it makes more sense IMO for BK to have positioned himself at the back of the house entering and exiting via the slider.

Too bad the 3D animation doesn't include a model of the DD vehicle.

I keep reading posts that add to the circumstantial evidence.

The timing is relevant specifically to BK as you are pointing out. He literally "had" to do this when he did.

A victim was going to move away and actually, so was BK. In just one month BK would be gone and very possibly not planning to come back because of his failure at his teaching job and the fact that his dad flew across the country to take a road trip with him, thus, leaving him without a car if he had planned to fly back.

I believe the timing also shows that BK wanted time before he left to hear about the investigation. He could have committed his crimes closer to leaving the area, getting his car out of the area sooner.

He would hear many people talking about it in Washington as opposed to Pennsylvania. Thrilling for him as you say.

Circumstantial - no smoking gun....Yet.

If the ID is true, there is your smoking gun.

 

[10ofRods]

Aerial view of house and pack parking lot in winter.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/in-this-aerial-view-a-home-that-is-the-site-of-a-quadruple-news-photo/1245970719?adppopup=true

The ground wasn't that snowy at the time, just as an aside. It snowed either the next day or two days later. The first day, there were just small patches of snow here and there and mostly black, damp ground. Looks approachable on foot by any nimble person from either side, for someone less nimble, the side where we see the SUV would be easier, approaching from the above the retaining wall.

I do think the killer probably knew it was going to snow soon and chose a time when footprints would not be left (much) and the moon was out. So the suspect profile I think applies is that of someone who likes researching details of that nature and in some ways, using rational approaches to crime. The fact that BK thinks this is common among series offenders interests me. It's one of the few things we know about his worldview. If it's not BK, then I think the Real Killer is also prone to planning, reasoning, researching. Not a lot - but more than some other kinds of killers.

IMO.

If a person is at home, phone on and connected to, presumably, both the house wifi as well as pinging the closest cell tower, will the phone/router/cell tower record actual phone activity?

In other words, can the technology distinguish between a person awake and actively engaging every few moments with their device, versus when that person goes to sleep, leaving phone still on and connected but no more activity happening?

What I'm wondering is whether the four victims, maybe the two survivors as well, were awake and interacting with each other for a bit in the 2am range when they had reportedly all arrived home. Phone activity might show when each person went to bed/sleep?

According to what we've seen in, say, the Murdaugh and other cases, absolutely. They were able to say when the phone was in portrait or landscape mode, when it was picked up, when it was moving at a gait consistent with being carried by a walking or running human, etc. Presumably this murderer left his phone in the car (whoever he is). Active use differs from passively having a phone just sitting around, etc.

Same for the victims' phones. And I do believe we've heard that Maddie and Kaylee last used their phones right around 2 am, no word on DM's phone use, nor Ethan's, but Xana's phone was active at around 4:17. IIRC.

When a smartphone is on, GPS cannot be turned off on both iPhones and Androids. Merely putting them on airplane mode or turning off location services does not prevent the GPS from tracking. So each time that phone that swung by 1122 King Road on the night of the 12-13th came back on, there was GPS tracking (not mentioned in the PCA, possibly not gathered and analyzed yet). Google map searches stay on the Google server for quite some time, etc (the podcast called To Live and Die in L.A. is riveting).

It will be very hard for BK not to be bound over for trial if the GPS data lines up with the cell tower data; there might also be ping (rather than handshake/connection) data from more cell towers. If there are several lines of digital/cloud data that all put him at the scene in the same manner, it's going to be a hard row to hoe for the defense (along with the sheath, etc). Would that location data plus sheath DNA be enough if he otherwise has no alibi? I find it hard to believe he has a strong alibi, given his waiver of a speedy prelim.

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

The ground wasn't that snowy at the time, just as an aside. It snowed either the next day or two days later. The first day, there were just small patches of snow here and there and mostly black, damp ground. Looks approachable on foot by any nimble person from either side, for someone less nimble, the side where we see the SUV would be easier, approaching from the above the retaining wall.

I do think the killer probably knew it was going to snow soon and chose a time when footprints would not be left (much) and the moon was out. So the suspect profile I think applies is that of someone who likes researching details of that nature and in some ways, using rational approaches to crime. The fact that BK thinks this is common among series offenders interests me. It's one of the few things we know about his worldview. If it's not BK, then I think the Real Killer is also prone to planning, reasoning, researching. Not a lot - but more than some other kinds of killers.

IMO.

You made me think of something. Computer forensics could possibly find out that he was researching the weather for that night. For that matter, researching any number of things related to what he did.

How to get away with murder - how to pass a lie detector - homicides in Moscow - DNA evidence on a knife sheath - on and on, any number of things.

There was a lady who was charged with lying to the Grand Jury and on her computer it showed a search - the day before she testified - on "How to lie to the Grand Jury."