4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[Cool Cats]

I keep ready about how smart KB is and his academic achievements and excellence. I see little evidence of that.
Persons pursuing PhD degrees are not smarter than everyone else. They are just individuals who have a great interest in a particular topic and choose to go after advanced study. Some programs are very competitive, but others are not. Good grades are required. BK has no published works of which I am aware. I have never seen any test scores or grade transcripts. I read that he liked to give long roundabout explanations for topics to show off his knowledge. This seems to me more like someone who likes to him himself talk than an expert on any field.

He may be of above average intelligence, but I have seen nothing to suggest he was a criminal mastermind.

It will be interesting to see what information is released when this case comes to trial. I suspect he was sloppy with some of his plans.

An old joke that comes to mind when I see references to his academic achievements (no offense aimed at the PhD's here).
Every body know what BS means (bull ****)
MS means more of it
PhD means Piled Higher and Deeper.

I don't see any academic achievements and excellence. Just good grades. Did a poor job teaching and didn't have the sense to leave his phone at home when stalking and committing homicide burglary in Moscow. Drove his car in front of a ton of cameras.

DeSales graduation, spring 2020 | Times News Online

DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony. The university conferred degrees upon 497 students, including undergraduates,...

www.tnonline.com

DeSales graduation, spring 2020​

Published June 20. 2020 06:39AM
DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony.

Albrightsville: Bryan Kohberger, B.S., psychology, c u m laude

C u m laude is a Latim term that means “with honor.” In the academic world, it indicates the lowest of the three levels of Latin honors a student can earn.

 

[Montecore1]

It's been rainy here and yesterday I happened to notice my shoes were leaving diamond shaped shoe tracks! It was from my Onisuka Tiger sneakers.

Interesting...where were you on the early morning hours of November 13th gliving or whatever your name is?!

 

[WingsOverTX]

I keep ready about how smart KB is and his academic achievements and excellence. I see little evidence of that.
Persons pursuing PhD degrees are not smarter than everyone else. They are just individuals who have a great interest in a particular topic and choose to go after advanced study. Some programs are very competitive, but others are not. Good grades are required. BK has no published works of which I am aware. I have never seen any test scores or grade transcripts. I read that he liked to give long roundabout explanations for topics to show off his knowledge. This seems to me more like someone who likes to him himself talk than an expert on any field.

He may be of above average intelligence, but I have seen nothing to suggest he was a criminal mastermind.

It will be interesting to see what information is released when this case comes to trial. I suspect he was sloppy with some of his plans.

An old joke that comes to mind when I see references to his academic achievements (no offense aimed at the PhD's here).
Every body know what BS means (bull ****)
MS means more of it
PhD means Piled Higher and Deeper.

To a degree (no pun intended), I agree with you. Being an expert in a particular field does not a genius make. And some very smart & educated people lack common sense.

That said, it is the ability to reason, apply logic, problem solve, reach verifiable conclusions, etc., which higher education is intended to cultivate & often does.

Too many people have no deep reasoning abilities. Whether they routinely deploy them or not, I think most people with higher education attainment do. Whether that ability can overcome character & moral flaws? Not so much.

JMHO

 

[Cool Cats]

I think he's in solitary for protection from others because the case has been so newsworthy maybe? Also his self harm / suicide risk plus possible risk to others... he's kinda ticking all the boxes.

I agree with you tho and the smoking gun would be fascinating to know if they have something

BK hasn't caused any problems in jail. I haven't heard he is at risk of "self harm" or is any type of "suicide risk."

He is most likely segregated due to a higher level of security being needed. The inmates in General Population do not have to be escorted by guards when they leave their cells, apparently BK does, by at least 2 guards.

Also, inmates who allegedly commit aggravated murder require more attention from staff. They have to be checked on more often and require a higher ratio of staff to inmate.

One guard can oversee a room full of inmates, but BK needs 2 guards just to watch him when he leaves his cell.

Bryan Kohberger follows his own case in the news from jail

DailyMail.com spoke with current and former inmates as well as jail sources who told of alleged quadruple murderer Bryan Kohberger's behavior behind bars

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[whiterhino]

Interesting...where were you on the early morning hours of November 13th gliving or whatever your name is?!

Yeah, if that is in fact even their name Not to mention I'd like to know where that user got their avatar from as it made me laugh earlier.

I'd also like to know based off the 3D animation, where other WSers would place a model of the DD driver. With all the driving around that night would BK and the DD driver have passed each other? Hard to believe they didn't. JMO.

 

[U.N. Known]

Opinion only, but I think if BK's attorney thought he was even remotely innocent she wouldn't make him wait 6 months for his preliminary hearing.

From what I understand, at the time that decision was made, the defense team hadn't seen anything beyond the PCA. They requested the other evidence after that and have made the request for discovery since. That's from memory, so plz correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline.

IMO, the defense would much rather their client wait in jail for a preliminary hearing for ample time to review evidence than to rush to the hearing and be caught off guard or unprepared. Six months in jail now is much better than a lifetime in jail or worse due to an inadequate defense.

If BK were to to be housed in general population, he'd surely be a marked man. Someone would try to take him out for the atrocious, high profile crime he is accused of. I think they are actually trying to protect his safety.

They do have DNA from the knife sheath that matched his father as stated in the PCA. I'm sure the State has a lot more information that we don't know about yet as well.

JMO

I do wonder why he's isolated (is that confirmed? i have not checked), but I am not inclined to believe that the cast of characters in Latah Cty jail are waiting to take him out. It's a relatively small jail, and none of the the others is accused of murder.

Latah County | Jail Roster

jail.latah.id.us

 

[U.N. Known]

Thank you for writing this. If I were in jail, I would prefer an isolation cell. I have a long history of functioning well on my own and in isolation. My partner is the same way, has the same preference. My dad was the same way too. We are a minority in the population, but we're not all crazy. People who dislike being alone perceive us that way. I function well enough in a social environment, but when that part of my day/week is over, I want alone time. Lots of it.

I think BK is capable of shutting up in the jail environment. He may well prefer being by himself. By now, he should be able to have jail-approved paper and writing instruments (often stubby pencils or, in CO, maybe a Flexi-Pen). He also gets some use of a tablet (for movies, for a fee - but maybe he gets to type on one as well). He gets to Facetime with family. I wouldn't be surprised if he's able to request particular books from the prison library which, if approved, can be read for an hour every day - sometimes jails do allow a book or two in the cell of a well-behaved prisoner. I bet he's been well-behaved. In short, his life may be very close to what it was when he lived at home. Lots of solitary time, occasional interaction with close family members.

Obviously, this is complete speculation and JMO.

Incarceration is a funny thing when it comes to "friends." Everyone there is accused of or convicted some crime; however, the types of people who commit certain offenses may have little to nothing in common with people who commit other types of offenses. The person who killed someone in a 1st time DUI may have zero in common with low-level drug dealer guy on his stint in county.

Even if he had a roommate, would it be someone he as interested in hanging out with or would that person be someone who would interested in hanging out with BK?

IF I was innocent, at least in the short-term, while awaiting trial, I think I'd prefer having my own space and speaking to the occasional guard than bunking with some of the other inmates.

 

[Helechawagirl]

DBM

 

[russoca]

Plea Deal Like BTK, Dennis Rader???

snipped for focus @russoca
Not sure if BTK was party to a plea deal, per sources below.
Three possible ways a crim def't may benefit thru a plea agreement: charge bargaining; count bargaining; sentence bargaining.* AFAIK, BTK received none of these.

Rader was charged w 10 counts of murder 1; on scheduled trial day, he changed plea to guilty to all 10. He was sentenced to 10 consecutive life sentences, with a minimum of 175 years. Kansas had no death penalty at the time of the murders. **

After his arrest and before scheduled trial, Rader gave extensive info to LE, specifically: ".... the torture and murder of 10 people,... His recorded confession, which lasted more than 30 hours, filled 17 DVDs." ***

Before sentencing, Rader addressed the court (allocution) In a rambling half-hour statement and spoke for 30 min. "He quoted the Bible and thanked his lawyers, jailers, friends and family, before paying tribute to the law enforcement officials who caught him. Rader also took full responsibility for his actions..." ****

These sources make no reference to a plea agreement. If, as part of a plea agreement, Rader received a reduced sentence, imo it may have been a technical point, as his minimum term is 175 yrs. He won't leave prison alive.

Is a plea agreement even a possibility for BK? IDK.
_____________________________________________
* "In charge bargaining, defendants plead guilty to a less serious crime than the original charge that was filed against them. In count bargaining, they plead guilty to a subset of multiple original charges. In sentence bargaining, they plead guilty agreeing in advance what sentence will be given; however, this sentence can still be denied by the judge. In fact bargaining, defendants plead guilty but the prosecutor agrees to stipulate (i.e., to affirm or concede) certain facts that will affect how the defendant is punished under the sentencing guidelines."
Plea bargain - Wikipedia

** Dennis Rader - Wikipedia

*** Footnote 70 of wiki article links to a Wayback Machine story: "Hansen, Mark (April 21, 2006). "How the Cops Caught BTK". ABA Journal. American Bar Association. Archived from the original on January 21, 2015. Retrieved January 21, 2015."

**** Washington Post article, Aug. 19, 2005

Rader Gets 175 Years For BTK Slayings

After evading justice for more than 31 years, Dennis Rader, a serial killer who called himself BTK -- for "bind, torture, kill" -- was sentenced to 10 consecutive life terms in a court in Wichita, Kan.

web.archive.org

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Sleuth2010]

We also aren't privy to his plan or intent.

It was a dynamic situation for which he may not have adequately prepared.

K being there and in M's bed.
X being awake for doordash.
E being there, awake or awakened.
D being awake, calling out.

At 4 am, BK may have anticipated a static situation. Everyone asleep, one sleeper per room.

It's possible he had one target, one and only one.

It's possible he planned to enter, kill (just one), exit in mere minutes.

He might have accomplished that in virtual silence, if not for the dynamic features bulleted above.

It's possible that he intended to spend more time there, with just his one victim. Controlling with the knife. Taunt, torture, SA. If his plan was one decisive murder, without the others, the sheath might never have left his second hand.

It is likely his plan, whatever it was, was impacted, if not thwarted or accelerated, by the dynamic features. Encountering K would have resulted, as it did, in noise. And noise is what awakened D. Assuming he heard her utterance, he now knew he had a complication.

When he descended the staircase from the third level, he likely encountered E. IMO it's possible that the bedroom light was on. (If BK turned that light off, after murdering E and X, as he left that bedroom, the adjustment from light to dark may have affected his vision enough to miss seeing D, her door or the movement of it opening. Maybe?) If BK's target was just one, then IMO K was a surprise to him, as were E and X. He may have ascribed D's utterance to X because he saw that she was awake, may have been unaware that D was there at all, therefore.

In a matter of minutes, his careful plan to murder one victim escalated into four victims (if you accept the premise of a single, targeted victim).

Additionally, it is possible he was aware of Dylan. He may have made a calculated decision. We don't know his mindset. Not getting caught may not have been as compelling to him as the satisfaction of what he'd accomplished, assuming sick gratification as his goal. Perhaps he made a calculation. We know D locked her door. He may have heard that, did the math, decided the effort and efficacy of breaching her door was beyond his scope and opted for escape.

Knowing he left a live witness may have increased the thrill -- certainly ups the risk of being caught. Explains the rapid exodus, might explain his circuitous route home. He expected LE to come in hot.

But he knew he'd just massacred four people. D did not. She only knew that she'd been awakened by her roommates, did not register fear but annoyance, opened her door the third time, to be shocked to find a man directly outside her door. But even so, he paid her no mind and continued toward the door. Easy to read walk of shame not denouement of mass murder. She went back to bed, probably comforted by the silence which is what she sought in the first place. Eerie silence came later IMO.

My point to all of this is that, had BK encountered only M in her bed, if she was his target, and no one else had been awake, he may have entered in near silence and left the same way, leaving one murdered victim. Swift and efficient. Scary as hell.

Even with the moving parts listed above, he was in and out in under ten minutes, plus or minus. Leaving a swath of human destruction. Scary as hell times four.

He is the monster under the bed.

JMO

Really good work here. And the situation can be reversed, giving more thought. ie: what if the guilty killer did plan on killing more than one? Layer upon layer this is well said. Well thought out. Very possible. Killer is a coward. Had any of the Idaho4 had weaponry, the coward-killer would have lost. BKSick souled and sick minded. Cowardly and evil. Coward BK is in his cage for the entirety of his pathetic, cowardly existence. jmo moo lmnop

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Agree on the nature of timing.
Like a military operation.

Same here, @Boxer

I can not stop thinking about their stabbings being some sort of cross between Krav Maga meets Boxing, with knife instead of fist...

 

[Sundog]

I don't see any academic achievements and excellence. Just good grades. Did a poor job teaching and didn't have the sense to leave his phone at home when stalking and committing homicide burglary in Moscow. Drove his car in front of a ton of cameras.

DeSales graduation, spring 2020 | Times News Online

DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony. The university conferred degrees upon 497 students, including undergraduates,...

www.tnonline.com

DeSales graduation, spring 2020​

Published June 20. 2020 06:39AM
DeSales University celebrated the Class of 2020 and all of its contributions with a virtual conferral of degrees ceremony.

Albrightsville: Bryan Kohberger, B.S., psychology, c u m laude

C u m laude is a Latim term that means “with honor.” In the academic world, it indicates the lowest of the three levels of Latin honors a student can earn.

Actually, "c u m laude" is an acknowledgement of academic achievement, that BK received his degree with distinction. It acknowledges that he graduated with distinction, and then there is "magna c u m laudge" with even greater distinction, and finally "summa c u m laude" with the highest distinction. Graduating "c u m laude" is noteworthy. Most students do not graduate with a grade-point -average to graduate with these honors of academic excellence and distinction.

 

[Cool Cats]

Actually, "c u m laude" is an acknowledgement of academic achievement, that BK received his degree with distinction. It acknowledges that he graduated with distinction, and then there is "magna c u m laudge" with even greater distinction, and finally "summa c u m laude" with the highest distinction. Graduating "c u m laude" is noteworthy. Most students do not graduate with a grade-point -average to graduate with these honors of academic excellence and distinction.

Like I said, good grades, an A student.

Great grades in Psychology at DeSales University.

No sign of this, known publicly, from his Criminal type studies at WSU. He actually failed in his teaching assistant job.

Point was, he is no criminal mastermind.

2 Cents

 

[NCWatcher]

Like I said, good grades, an A student.

Great grades in Psychology at DeSales University.

No sign of this, known publicly, from his criminal type studies at WSU.

That may be true but he was only one semester into his studies at WSU. Obviously he was having trouble as a TA but that's not quite the same undertaking as earning course grades. However I will say that grades in doctoral programs aren't viewed the same as undergrad grades. It's assumed everybody is competent. And in my experience, usually everyone is. There's often competition in grad school but it isn't for course grades.
JMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Same here, @Boxer

I can not stop thinking about their stabbings being some sort of cross between Krav Maga meets Boxing, with knife instead of fist...

Me neither @Twistinginthewind
Except with knife instead of ... some other body part. IMO there was some erotic delight for the killer especially reliving it after. Angry erotic pleasure motivated by a long thoughtout fantasy.

It only took ten minutes to end the lives of four beautiful souls and destroy countless others. I've often wondered if that was the killer's idea of power and control? His need at that moment, was it worth it to him? Is he who he always wanted to be now? His dissertation will be written by other people about his life. Maybe in his head, that makes him important.

Right, he's looking forward to being exonerated. Too bad the pain he caused others will never be cleared.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That may be true but he was only one semester into his studies at WSU. Obviously he was having trouble as a TA but that's not quite the same undertaking as earning course grades. However I will say that grades in doctoral programs aren't viewed the same as undergrad grades. It's assumed everybody is competent. And in my experience, usually everyone is. There's often competition in grad school but it isn't for course grades.
JMO

I imagine his problems were similar to the problems some socially awkward grad students/med students/law students have when they get to the point that their poor performance in interpersonal communications negatively impacts their success. Has very little to do with intelligence or academic prowess and a lot more to do with social skills. MOO

 

[whiterhino]

Me neither @Twistinginthewind
Except with knife instead of ... some other body part. IMO there was some erotic delight for the killer especially reliving it after. Angry erotic pleasure motivated by a long thoughtout fantasy.

It only took ten minutes to end the lives of four beautiful souls and destroy countless others. I've often wondered if that was the killer's idea of power and control? His need at that moment, was it worth it to him? Is he who he always wanted to be now? His dissertation will be written by other people about his life. Maybe in his head, that makes him important.

Right, he's looking forward to being exonerated. Too bad the pain he caused others will never be cleared.

JMO

RBBM

Swear this sounds like BKs Reddit questionnaire! Very well said. Future graduates whom BK helped teach will be writing about him.

If BK is exonerated then who did it (I am not actually asking you fwiw)

The one thing that causes me to have doubt is how clumsy BK was. Driving around past cameras, pinging off towers before and after. But somehow while inside the house BK is almost ninja like. Puzzling. JMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

RBBM

Swear this sounds like BKs Reddit questionnaire! Very well said. Future graduates whom BK helped teach will be writing about him.

If BK is exonerated then who did it (I am not actually asking you fwiw)

The one thing that causes me to have doubt is how clumsy BK was. Driving around past cameras, pinging off towers before and after. But somehow while inside the house BK is almost ninja like. Puzzling. JMO.

RBBM
But was he? According to what is public knowledge so far, perhaps.

But we have probably only seen a fraction of the evidence the defense has to explain away.

Degree of premeditation perhaps being quite shocking beyond what we do know. People with obsessions tend to overlook details because their state of mind precludes completely careful thought. And BK was obsessed IMO.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I learned yesterday about the pathway to violence from Special Agent Grusing. Intend, plan, acquire, implement.

I wonder how these steps might apply to and inform BK.

Intend. Form the thought. I'm going to guess the thoughts began in high school. Maybe a generic intent.

Plan. When did that happen? Did he stalk regularly? Fantasize often? Was his fantasy less about sex and more about domination? Conquer. Did he stalk via dating apps? Did he strike up online relationships in random areas? Multiple online-personalities disorder... did he meet one of the roommates that way? Maybe not in person but some contact? Then he stalked and sleuthed his way to an address? Or did he stop at the Greek restaurant? Awkward encounter with a waitress? Followed her home?

Acquire. When did he acquire the sheathed knife? What else? Extra running clothes, slim fit, black? Miner's light? Nitrile gloves? Face mask...

Implement. Why this night? Why not the previous eleven times? Had he been in the house before? Why not then?

Murder, months in the making? Weeks? Years?

If only he'd stayed in the academic lane, studying criminal behavior and the minds of murderers instead of diving in.

JMO

 

[whiterhino]

RBBM
But was he? According to what is public knowledge so far, perhaps.

But we have probably only seen a fraction of the evidence the defense has to explain away.

Degree of premeditation perhaps being quite shocking beyond what we do know. People with obsessions tend to overlook details because their state of mind precludes completely careful thought. And BK was obsessed IMO.

JMO

RBBM

Two very excellent points! Ninja is a bit OTT.

The animation of BK entering and going directly to each victims room without wandering around gives the appearance of someone who was organized IMO. The before and after appear disorganized. Apparently one individual can be a mix of both.

FWIW I found this interesting: (note I am aware a "blitz" attack isn't quite what happened here, ICBW but think the author is describing a more public attack but linking fwiw)

Organized Versus Disorganized Serial Predators

The basis of FBI criminal profiling.

www.psychologytoday.com

"Significantly, disorganized killers will often “blitz” their victims—that is, use sudden and overwhelming force to assault them. The victim’s body is usually left where the attack took place and the killer makes no attempt to hide it. Jack the Ripper is a classic example of the disorganized serial killer.

It is also important to note that a serial murder case can also be a mix of organized and disorganized. This occasionally occurs, for example, when there are multiple offenders of different personality types involved in the killings. It can also occur when a lone offender is undergoing a psychological transformation throughout his killing career."