4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[WingsOverTX]

I know the professor initiated confrontation between BK and students has already been discussed a lot, so sorry for bringing it up again. I mainly want to focus on the main complaint made by the small number of students who spoke to the press.

First, I agree with @BeginnerSleuther that his lack of interpersonal communication skills could likely have been a legitimate issue, but it also seems clear students felt he graded too hard. Plain and simple. So they were annoyed and wanted to (and did) argue for better grades, with those doing well in the class siding with BK and the rest opposing him.' And it seems like he was instructed to give good grades, and he did. MOO.

I recently looked at rate my teacher responses for one of my favorite professors and the comments were brutal. Graded too harshly, expected too much of students, too critical regarding papers, etc, etc -- and IMHO it seems like BK's students may have felt the same about him. Mind you, my professor had charisma and was extremely intelligent but also easy to talk to, and while BK seems intelligent, I'm not sure we've heard him described as charismatic or easy to talk to. But those factors didn't seem to matter to students rating my fav professor. It was all about the grades, and that IMHO brings into question how much time and effort (some) students are willing to put into a class in order to earn good grades. And I'm guessing the answer is not much or at least not enough. And I don't think that reflects on the teacher as much as the students. So, no, I'm not willing to believe BK isn't intelligent or can't grade papers, and there's no way I'd ever condone what the professor of that class did. I will concede that BK most likely had other problems regarding being a TA, but lack of intelligence wasn't one of them. All MOO

From the article linked below with BBM:

"He'd be grading you on what he ended up calling a 'higher standard,'" Stinchfield said. "But what it really felt like to us was he was grading us like he would have graded himself as a Ph.D. student... We were all annoyed by him."

In fact, Stinchfield said his professor allowed the students to argue for better grades at one point in the semester to get a "courtroom experience."

"He brought in Bryan, and he was like, 'alright, go at him,'" Stinchfield said. "And he had Bryan stand up. And a few people were on his side because they wanted to keep their high grades... but for the most part, it was like half of a 150-person class just asking these real critical questions."

Bryan Kohberger's former student describes abrupt behavior change after Idaho college murders

The criminology student said Kohberger's grading style took an abrupt turn after the murders took place.

abc11.com

Is there no objective standard for grading even written work such as essays? I'm confused by the idea that it's all subjective & should be manipulated based on class performance, etc.

The entire problem, if it really was a problem, should have been handled as a mentoring exercise in private. I think BK got on everyone's nerves & was being publicly punished & shamed. Even if he was the problem, that was no way to handle it.

I hope the truth (more facts) comes out regarding this incident.

MOO

 

[WingsOverTX]

I would just like to point out that the "alright, go at him" was the student's take on what the professor said - and the professor's account of it is slightly different. Prof had already planned this "courtroom experience" and grad students are often involved in staging such matters for the undergrads. It was a pertinent issue (grading). I doubt those were the prof's actual words (could be, but none of the other participants have reported it that way - there are about 3-4 different narratives from students around this incident).

It is BK's reaction afterwards (passively aggressively giving everyone 100% on everything) that strikes me as immature and, well, hostile to the professor.

IMO.

Respectfully, are you defending it?

Regardless of what this "exercise" was intended to do, it was a bad approach to both teaching and mentoring. In fact, I would say perhaps that professor could use some mentoring if he thought this was appropriate. Why do students get to openly criticize grading in a lecture hall of more than 100 students? I can see doing an anonymous survey for feedback & improvement by a TA but not this.

Regardless of how it went down, unless it is a lie (and there appear to be a multitude of witnesses so maybe we need to hear from more of them), it leaves me troubled.

JMO

 

[U.N. Known]

Is there no objective standard for grading even written work such as essays? I'm confused by the idea that it's all subjective & should be manipulated based on class performance, etc.

The entire problem, if it really was a problem, should have been handled as a mentoring exercise in private. I think BK got on everyone's nerves & was being publicly punished & shamed. Even if he was the problem, that was no way to handle it.

I hope the truth (more facts) comes out regarding this incident.

MOO

Even with scoring guides, it's difficult to grade an essay with complete objectivity. Grammar and facts are fairly easy to grade. However, two people can write an essay on the same topic, with perfect grammar and identical content but use those facts with different examples, more complex sentences, etc. If grading only grammar and facts, the grade would be the same, but good writing is much more than that. What constitutes good vs great writing is often difficult for students to understand. I've had parents complain about a students' essay grade because the student is "worked really hard and I proofread it. What those parents and students don't get to see is the obvious differences in complexity and nuance between their work and the work of the students who scored much better. While," if you know, you know," it's essentially subjective.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Could that have been the thump?

Yes, who knows the capabilities of that recording device -- it certainly could have picked up the sound of a decent sized man falling.

Remembering it was around 4 am and they had probably all just fallen asleep or were on their way to going to sleep.

It could have been one of any number of noises that woke DM after she had dropped off -- including BK doing a header when he tripped in the dark.

In fact, I recall when he was first arrested, it looked like he had double shiners under his eyes, and LE found a red substance on the pillow in his apartment, so maybe he hit his face hard and had some nosebleeds and shiners that he had to cover up with concealer/pancake makeup to attend classes so it wouldn't be obvious, who knows?

Though if he did have face injuries, I prefer the scenario under which one or all 4 victims fought back and bashed him good.

She was probably groggy and might not be able to pinpoint what woke her. I bet there were a lot of noises and thumps and crashing around while the 4 murders were being committed.

Thankfully it was a pretty big house with bedrooms fairly spread out, so she was removed enough from where her room was (downstairs from and/or on the other side of the house from the housemates who were murdered) to not be right in the middle of it all.

For a moment there thinking about where she was, I wished for her that she had been in one of the 1st floor bedrooms as originally reported and had heard nothing and been farther removed from where they were killed by an entire floor or two.

But in retrospect, I am thankful she had moved upstairs to the second floor bedroom, and was sleeping closer to her other upstairs housemates so she could provide the information she did to LE that's in the PCA.

As traumatized as she must have been after they were found and being interviewed by LE, she did an amazing, courageous thing, giving LE the information she did, which was invaluable in leading them to BK, IMO.

Shine On, DM !! Wishing you peace and healing and better times ahead.

All MOO

 

[Boxer]

Yes, who knows the capabilities of that recording device -- it certainly could have picked up the sound of a decent sized man falling.

Remembering it was around 4 am and they had probably all just fallen asleep or were on their way to going to sleep.

It could have been one of any number of noises that woke DM after she had dropped off -- including someone doing a header when they tripped in the dark.

She was probably groggy and might not be able to pinpoint what woke her. I bet there were a lot of noises and thumps and crashing around while the 4 murders were being committed.

Thankfully it was a pretty big house with bedrooms fairly spread out, so she was removed enough from where her room was (downstairs from and/or on the other side of the house from the housemates who were murdered) to not be right in the middle of it all.

For a moment there thinking about where she was, I wished for her that she had been in one of the 1st floor bedrooms as originally reported and had heard nothing and been far removed from where they were killed by an entire floor or two.

But in retrospect, I am thankful she had moved upstairs to the second floor bedroom, and was sleeping closer to her other upstairs housemates so she could provide the information she did to LE that's in the PCA.

As traumatized as she must have been after they were found and being interviewed by LE, she did an amazing, courageous thing, giving LE the information she did, which was invaluable in leading them to BK, IMO.

Shine On, DM !! Wishing you peace and healing and better times ahead.

All MOO

Right. IIRC they did not even reveal a witness until after Kohberger arrest.

 

[Boxer]

Respectfully, are you defending it?

Regardless of what this "exercise" was intended to do, it was a bad approach to both teaching and mentoring. In fact, I would say perhaps that professor could use some mentoring if he thought this was appropriate. Why do students get to openly criticize grading in a lecture hall of more than 100 students? I can see doing an anonymous survey for feedback & improvement by a TA but not this.

Regardless of how it went down, unless it is a lie (and there appear to be a multitude of witnesses so maybe we need to hear from more of them), it leaves me troubled.

JMO

To me it sounds like a last ditch effort to get BK to listen by the professor. Poorly thought out and MOO the professor avoidant of a final showdown with BK. I can see how it was concocted, but it wasn't a good idea at all.
The best outcome would have been BK having an epiphany that being a teacher is not about being right or winning in some way and given that he was losing his position he could reframe his work with students.
But he was so far from that kind of internal self awareness it was just a confrontation.

 

[Megnut]

I want to sound in quick on the grading debate. Perhaps the professor saw it as a primo learning exercise. For everyone. And did not predict what did occur. I think BK wasn't suited for any such thing, having to defend his natural, perceived superiority against mere plebes. And it brought out his awkwardness. Creep factor, rigidity, misogyny, you name it. I think another T. A. might've seen it as an opportunity to perform under pressure and could hold his/her own in some regards while adjusting in others. Compromise, cooperation, diplomacy.

IMO it went badly not because it was ill-conceived but because BK himself goes badly.

Anti-social. Anti-establishment.

And it exposed him as ill-eqipped.

He was likely encouraged or directed to revise his grading... and he responded IMO with belligerence, vindictively -- I'll show you.

Thumbed his nose at the directive and gave everybody pablum grades.... which probably gave his superiors all the information they needed about BK. B'bye.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

I want to sound in quick on the grading debate. Perhaps the professor saw it as a primo learning exercise. For everyone. And did not predict what did occur. I think BK wasn't suited for any such thing, having to defend his natural, perceived superiority against mere plebes. And it brought out his awkwardness. Creep factor, rigidity, misogyny, you name it. I think another T. A. might've seen it as an opportunity to perform under pressure and could hold his/her own in some regards while adjusting in others. Compromise, cooperation, diplomacy.

IMO it went badly not because it was ill-conceived but because BK himself goes badly.

Anti-social. Anti-establishment.

And it exposed him as ill-eqipped.

He was likely encouraged or directed to revise his grading... and he responded IMO with belligerence, vindictively -- I'll show you.

Thumbed his nose at the directive and gave everybody pablum grades.... which probably gave his superiors all the information they needed about BK. B'bye.

JMO

Agree.

 

[Megnut]

BK was fascinated with the criminal minds, perhaps because he recognized his own.

Most of us toe the line. Some of us have a moral code. Some of us just don't want to get caught. Either way, it keeps most of us on the right side of the law most of the time.

Some criminals respond to a moment and respond violently. Crimes of passion. Others plan and plot.

IMO BK planned and BK plotted. Took steps to avoid detection but made a slew of rookie mistakes. I don't think the idea of getting caught was any kind of deterrent --or he'd have been far more careful. Leaving his phone at home altogether. Driving anything but his own car. Parking away from the house in question. Jogging the last mile or two. Leaving with his sheath.

But again, I don't think he cared all that much about getting caught. And I don't think he much cares that he did get caught. I think it was part of his calculus. If I get caught, oh well, it'll be so worth it.

Had he not been caught, he may have been emboldened again to home in on another unsuspecting target. But arrested as he's been, I suspect he might be proud of himself, largely unbothered by incarceration.

Solitude might suit him well.

Gross as it is to consider, it's entirely possible it was, in ghastly fact, worth it to him.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I want to sound in quick on the grading debate. Perhaps the professor saw it as a primo learning exercise. For everyone. And did not predict what did occur. I think BK wasn't suited for any such thing, having to defend his natural, perceived superiority against mere plebes. And it brought out his awkwardness. Creep factor, rigidity, misogyny, you name it. I think another T. A. might've seen it as an opportunity to perform under pressure and could hold his/her own in some regards while adjusting in others. Compromise, cooperation, diplomacy.

IMO it went badly not because it was ill-conceived but because BK himself goes badly.

Anti-social. Anti-establishment.

And it exposed him as ill-eqipped.

He was likely encouraged or directed to revise his grading... and he responded IMO with belligerence, vindictively -- I'll show you.

Thumbed his nose at the directive and gave everybody pablum grades.... which probably gave his superiors all the information they needed about BK. B'bye.

JMO

Quote:

"He was likely encouraged or directed to revise his grading... and he responded IMO with belligerence, vindictively -- I'll show you.

Thumbed his nose at the directive and gave everybody pablum grades.... which probably gave his superiors all the information they needed about BK. B'bye."

I think it is also of note that not only did BK petulantly "check out" from teaching by throwing out 100's left and right, but he also stopped writing any notes to the students to go along with their grades. Notes that were meant to be constructive criticism that at least showed he was paying attention to their work.

We all have seen people do this. You confront someone about something they are doing and they are like:

"Fine, then I won't do it at all" Or "Fine, you do it then since I can't seem to do anything right." ETC.....

My wild guess here is that it made BK angry that women actually stood up to him and basically put him in his place. Now instead of grading women more harshly he will ignore them, completely ignore the work they are doing.

The "beast" was poked and this is an angry - and as @10ofRods said - passive aggressive way for BK to get "even."

These were rage-fueled homicides.
Simmering anger turning to rage.
A raging frenzy.
Hate filled.
Vengeful.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Bryan Kohberger Termination Letter Details Conflicts He Allegedly Had at WSU Prior to Idaho College Murders​

WSU Investigated Bryan Kohberger's Behavior While He Was a TA: Report

Faculty members were counseling Bryan Kohberger after a verbal altercation between the teacher’s assistant and the professor he worked for in the school’s criminology program while also probing his conduct with female students.

www.insideedition.com

"On September 23rd, 2022, you had an altercation with the faculty you support as a TA, Professor [John] Snyder. I met with you on October 3rd to discuss norms of professional behavior," the letter reads.

"On October 21st, Professor Snyder emailed you about the ways in which you had failed to meet your expectations as a TA thus far in the semester," it continues. "As a result, on November 2nd, Graduate Director [Dale] Willits and I met with you to discuss an improvement plan, which you agreed to and I shared with you in an email dated November 3rd."

"While not perfect, we agreed that there was progress," the letter reads.

But then, "On December 9th, there was another altercation with Professor Snyder, in which it became apparent that you had not made progress regarding professionalism and about which I wrote to you on December 11th requesting a meeting," the letter reads. "We met on December 19th when I informed you of your termination as a TA for spring semester."

In addition to the professional blow, Kohberger took a huge financial hit when he lost his job.

Teaching assistants in the criminology program at WSU “receive a specified stipend each month, health insurance benefits, and an in-state tuition waiver. Out-of-state tuition is waived the first year until the student establishes residency," the university notes on its website.

Kohberger had already started the process of becoming a resident of the state by obtaining a Washington driver's license as well as registering his car, as is recommended by the college.

 

[Megnut]

Bryan Kohberger Termination Letter Details Conflicts He Allegedly Had at WSU Prior to Idaho College Murders​

WSU Investigated Bryan Kohberger's Behavior While He Was a TA: Report

Faculty members were counseling Bryan Kohberger after a verbal altercation between the teacher’s assistant and the professor he worked for in the school’s criminology program while also probing his conduct with female students.

www.insideedition.com

"On September 23rd, 2022, you had an altercation with the faculty you support as a TA, Professor [John] Snyder. I met with you on October 3rd to discuss norms of professional behavior," the letter reads.

"On October 21st, Professor Snyder emailed you about the ways in which you had failed to meet your expectations as a TA thus far in the semester," it continues. "As a result, on November 2nd, Graduate Director [Dale] Willits and I met with you to discuss an improvement plan, which you agreed to and I shared with you in an email dated November 3rd."

"While not perfect, we agreed that there was progress," the letter reads.

But then, "On December 9th, there was another altercation with Professor Snyder, in which it became apparent that you had not made progress regarding professionalism and about which I wrote to you on December 11th requesting a meeting," the letter reads. "We met on December 19th when I informed you of your termination as a TA for spring semester."

In addition to the professional blow, Kohberger took a huge financial hit when he lost his job.

Teaching assistants in the criminology program at WSU “receive a specified stipend each month, health insurance benefits, and an in-state tuition waiver. Out-of-state tuition is waived the first year until the student establishes residency," the university notes on its website.

Kohberger had already started the process of becoming a resident of the state by obtaining a Washington driver's license as well as registering his car, as is recommended by the college.

It's costly to have a big, awkward, unsubstantiated ego.

Jmo

 

[maconrich]

It's costly to have a big, awkward, unsubstantiated ego.

Jmo

How much profit is made when articles (or tv shows) report on things without named and verified sources? I'd guess that with this story and others like it, the media is raking in profits. But wth, doesn't matter if they report the truth. They can say whatever they want to get readers until the preliminary and trial -- although it's entirely possible they might still go for whatever version of reality gets them the most viewers and clicks. All IMHO and not directed at you -- very much directed at so called journalists and the mass media.

From the article you listed above, this is the part that seems honest:
"WSU declined to comment on the investigation or Kohberger’s termination, citing privacy laws that prohibit them from speaking publicly about students and alumni."

 

[10ofRods]

Respectfully, are you defending it?

Regardless of what this "exercise" was intended to do, it was a bad approach to both teaching and mentoring. In fact, I would say perhaps that professor could use some mentoring if he thought this was appropriate. Why do students get to openly criticize grading in a lecture hall of more than 100 students? I can see doing an anonymous survey for feedback & improvement by a TA but not this.

Regardless of how it went down, unless it is a lie (and there appear to be a multitude of witnesses so maybe we need to hear from more of them), it leaves me troubled.

JMO

I am just saying we don't have the facts. I like to hear multiple points of view before getting judgy. It is still a pretty common tactic in actual law school; it is a Criminal Justice program and they probably do mock trails per the syllabus - at least that's what the articles I've read have said.

It went amock, for sure.

It's not an excuse for BK to murder 4 people, if he did indeed do it. And I think that his classmates and his professor are also in the further wings of being victims. I can't even imagine the jolt to one's sense of security - on both campuses - when something like this happens in the region. But to have been more closely involved with the accused would be tough.

IMO. I agree we need more witnesses (to the classroom event) if we are going to start assessing the behavior of a person who is, arguably, also a kind of victim.

IMO.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Thank @gliving for finding the official Nevada subpoena filing. HUGE Thanks G. for telling me to post it.
The official Nevada, Washoe court info subpoena for Bethany Funke as a material witness in the Kohberger case.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Query/CaseInformation/CV23-00566

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Thank @gliving for finding the official Nevada subpoena filing. HUGE Thanks G. for telling me to post it.
The official Nevada, Washoe court info subpoena for Bethany Funke as a material witness in the Kohberger case.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Query/CaseInformation/CV23-00566

"Extra Text: MOTION TO QUASH FOREIGN SUBPOENA - Transaction 9627569 - Approved By: CSULEZIC : 04-21-2023:15:31:40"

Does that mean she's fighting it?

 

[Helechawagirl]

Thank @gliving for finding the official Nevada subpoena filing. HUGE Thanks G. for telling me to post it.
The official Nevada, Washoe court info subpoena for Bethany Funke as a material witness in the Kohberger case.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Query/CaseInformation/CV23-00566

Wow! This is news. Good job finding this! Wonder what she knows? Saw?

 

[Helechawagirl]

Wow! This is news. Good job finding this! Wonder what she knows? Saw?

 

[Megnut]

Wow! This is news. Good job finding this! Wonder what she knows? Saw?

At a minimum, she might be key to the order and timing of events. In particular, if D had texted her roommates to be quiet before getting out of bed to yell into the hallway, she may have been texting B too.

I don't know where her bedroom windows align, but it's not a huge stretch to think, if D texted her about the guy leaving, she might look out her window to catch a glimpse herself. Remember -- they wouldn't had no idea he was a murderer and their remaining roommates had been slain. They may have simply been curious about the identity of the late-night visitor/exiter. Something lively to rib about over next day's after-noon breakfast.

Perhaps B saw BK exit into the woods or saw his car speed away.

Additionally she may be privy to conversations any of the four victims had, regarding online dating, weird encounters, restaurant hanger-onners, outright stalkers, etc, etc.

BK did a lot of damage that night. Slaughtered four young people in cold blood but left a swath of destruction in his wake.

So much lose.

Of life. Of security.

Murderer and a thief.

Jmo

 

[I'm Nobody]

Yep, @Beginnersleuth. Looks that way to me. Motion to Quash the subpoena has same number as Funke's lawyer Kelli Viloria's transaction on the same date. The other lawyer, Grosenick, is a public defender. It looks like Funke is fighting being called. Wonder if they tried asking Bethany nicely first? Prob just a formality.
JMO

1 JUDG - Judge BRESLOW, BARRY L.
2 ATTY - Attorney Grosenick, Esq., Evelyn
3 DEFT - Defendant KOHBERGER, BRYAN C.
4 INST - Interested Party FUNKE, BETHANY GRACE
5 PLTF - Plaintiff THE STATE OF IDAHO,
6 ATTY - Attorney Viloria, Esq., Kelli A.

1. 2405 - Mtn to Quash... 04/21/2023 Extra Text: MOTION TO QUASH FOREIGN SUBPOENA - Transaction 9627569 - Approved By: CSULEZIC : 04-21-2023:15:31:40
2. 2520 - Notice of Appearance 04/21/2023 Extra Text: KELLI ANNE VILORIA ESQ. - Transaction 9627569 - Approved By: CSULEZIC : 04-21-2023:15:31:40
3. NEF - Proof of Electronic Service 04/21/2023 Extra Text: Transaction 9627607 - Approved By: NOREVIEW : 04-21-2023:15:32:13
4. 1639 - **Document Issued by the Court 04/11/2023 Extra Text: Transaction 9606168 - Approved By: SACORDAG : 04-11-2023:12:17:03
5. NEF - Proof of Electronic Service 04/11/2023 Extra Text: Transaction 9606264 - Approved By: NOREVIEW : 04-11-2023:12:17:36
6. 3870 - Request 04/03/2023 Extra Text: REQUEST FOR FOREIGN SUBPOENA – OUT OF STATE COMMISSION - Transaction 9592185 - Approved By: CSULEZIC : 04-04-2023:08:26:11

https://www.washoecourts.com/Query/CaseInformation/CV23-00566

"Extra Text: MOTION TO QUASH FOREIGN SUBPOENA - Transaction 9627569 - Approved By: CSULEZIC : 04-21-2023:15:31:40"

Does that mean she's fighting it?

edit add court link.