4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

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  • #321
Please excuse my confusion over what I've been reading (here), but was another police body cam video released -- the one where BK is given a ticket for not wearing his seat belt? I've only seen the one dated 14 Oct 2022 where he wasn't given a ticket of any kind. Link below re when he was pulled over in Pullman / no ticket. Thank you in advance.

 
  • #322
Please excuse my confusion over what I've been reading (here), but was another police body cam video released -- the one where BK is given a ticket for not wearing his seat belt? I've only seen the one dated 14 Oct 2022 where he wasn't given a ticket of any kind. Link below re when he was pulled over in Pullman / no ticket. Thank you in advance.

Yea, I was actually a tad confused about that too. I watched the video a while ago now but thought I remembered him just getting a warning on 14th Oct - no ticket for intersection infraction or whatever in h..l it was; on 21 Aug (corner farm rd and pullman hway moscow) seat belt infraction (per PCA). But it is a job to keep confusion at bay with all these details floating round. V. easy to get confused...! MOO
 
  • #323
Yea, I was actually a tad confused about that too. I watched the video a while ago now but thought I remembered him just getting a warning on 14th Oct - no ticket for intersection infraction or whatever in h..l it was; on 21 Aug (corner farm rd and pullman hway moscow) seat belt infraction (per PCA). But it is a job to keep confusion at bay with all these details floating round. V. easy to get confused...! MOO
Thank you! My brain gets foggy, but I didn't know if I should stay confused or start looking for the Aug (seat belt) body cam video. Figured I'd ask before searching, so thank you for answering so quickly :D
 
  • #324
Thank you! My brain gets foggy, but I didn't know if I should stay confused or start looking for the Aug (seat belt) body cam video. Figured I'd ask before searching, so thank you for answering so quickly :D
You're welcome, just happenned to be hanging and not doing much as brain is fried from trying to think in legal terms...owing to over familarity, some details of this case (a lot of the time not even useful ones) are seared into my brain.

edited your to you're;-details, details...
 
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  • #325
Given her expertise on eyewitness testimony, I assume that the new attorney, EM, who is now on BK's defense team, will be very interested in DM's description of the person she saw the morning of the murders, and all the details of the physical state, etc. of DM that morning and the night before.

In her appeal regarding the America's Most Wanted Case she represented, nothing was spared in relation to the eyewitness/victim, and also how LE handled the video lineup, etc. The details are described at the link below.

The conviction was overturned on appeal, and the prosecution decided not to hold a new trial. Hard to imagine that this vicious criminal went free.

MOO Defense is just a game at some point.
 
  • #326
  • #327
The prosecution never said they didn't have it. <modsnip>
IANAL but they incorporated their January and February response in this most recent one. The January response clearly says we have given over everything that is in the state's control. The February response seems to say "See our January response". I take this to mean they have given the defense all they have in their possession and that this is still true today. Now, is it possible PA or WA have not handed everything over? Definitely. Is it possible Idaho ASKED PA or WA to delay providing any documents? I suppose that is possible, although it would certainly be dirty pool and we have absolutely no proof of that, or even any rumor of that. MOOooo
 
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  • #328
IANAL but they incorporated their January and February response in this most recent one. The January response clearly says we have given over everything that is in the state's control. The February response seems to say "See our January response". I take this to mean they have given the defense all they have in their possession and that this is still true today. Now, is it possible PA or WA have not handed everything over? Definitely. Is it possible Idaho ASKED PA or WA to delay providing any documents? I suppose that is possible, although it would certainly be dirty pool and we have absolutely no proof of that, or even any rumor of that. MOOooo
It seems the Defense is looking for something specific. If the prosecution is just continuing to say they have provided everything, then that is that. If PA has provided something, the prosecution must say that, they can't just say "we have given all we have." That is an incomplete answer. If Moscow PD has not given everything to the DA, that is not an honest answer as well. The Defense is setting a path here. They may not be actually wanting something to be produced, but instead establish that something doesn't exist and prevent the State from insinuating later that it does. That state should be careful how it responds. But i still think the Defense is looking for something specific to be produced that the State for some reason has not yet done.
 
  • #329
It seems the Defense is looking for something specific. If the prosecution is just continuing to say they have provided everything, then that is that. If PA has provided something, the prosecution must say that, they can't just say "we have given all we have." That is an incomplete answer. If Moscow PD has not given everything to the DA, that is not an honest answer as well. The Defense is setting a path here. They may not be actually wanting something to be produced, but instead establish that something doesn't exist and prevent the State from insinuating later that it does. That state should be careful how it responds. But i still think the Defense is looking for something specific to be produced that the State for some reason has not yet done.
1683748693593.png

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/012323 States Response to Request for Discovery.pdf
 
  • #330
Not sure what you are meaning by posting this. If the State knows of evidence that is requested it must provide it. This sentence is true only as to truly newly discovered evidence. The insinuation that they cannot withhold info until the determine that they want to use it isn't very useful. This paragraph is likely the last paragraph of every single discovery response they send out.
 
  • #331
Not sure what you are meaning by posting this. If the State knows of evidence that is requested it must provide it. This sentence is true only as to truly newly discovered evidence. The insinuation that they cannot withhold info until the determine that they want to use it isn't very useful. This paragraph is likely the last paragraph of every single discovery response they send out.
If the Latah County prosecutor doesn't have a report, a product, in any form, is it evidence? When does something become "discoverable"?
 
  • #332
What do you mean?
From a defense attorney's point of view keeping the system honest is the point.
So a trial is a defense attorney vs the justice system, with the underlying presumption the trial battle makes the justice system stronger, making the client's guilt or innocence immaterial.
 
  • #333
Might I suggest muting the audio & just watching after listening/watching the entire stop video? It’s something I find helpful, but I’m weird!

My interpretation was he was arrogant, manipulative, & able to adjust on the fly based on feedback. MOO

Also MOO, but I think he moved here expecting to be a big fish — we see that All. The. Time. in students who move here. Instead, he remained an unimpressive little fish in a larger pond. I don’t think he handled his inability to dazzle very well. All MOO.

I'll go do that right now - I do it all the time (it's usually what I do first). It enhances observation of body language and micro-expressions, of course.
 
  • #334
If the Latah County prosecutor doesn't have a report, a product, in any form, is it evidence? When does something become "discoverable"?
Well if a party does not have something that it is supposed to have, they can say they don't have it. If they are asked again, they need to explain WHY they don't have it and who does have it.
 
  • #335
Oh, I agree that is what happened. I just think that if every traffic cop in Pullman took this amount of time educating an out-of-state person, that would be so different to what I've seen in every place I've lived.

I hope that this same police person gives the same lessons to all the people she stops.
Having lived here for 35 years, this kind of stop & warning for minor moving violations is common in this area & not just for out-of-state drivers, MOO.

Both Pullman & Moscow are college towns & it takes a certain kind of personality & appropriate use of discretion to be a successful LEO in these 2 towns. They do a lot of education.

Had BK’s moving violation resulted in a near-miss accident, had he been a downright jerk, if he had a local problem history, had he been under the influence, etc, the outcome of that encounter might well have been different.

Personally, I’m very curious to see the 8/21/22 body cam footage (if it exists) of his LCSO (Latah County Sheriff Office) encounter with a male deputy:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FleziSbX0AIH7JN?format=jpg&name=medium

While my interpretation seems to be different than some, I find his verbal & non-verbal communication telling. And kinda chilling. His lie about his inexperience with crosswalks in rural PA just flowed off his tongue with zero effort. Just wow.

All MOO
 
  • #336
IANAL but they incorporated their January and February response in this most recent one. The January response clearly says we have given over everything that is in the state's control. The February response seems to say "See our January response". I take this to mean they have given the defense all they have in their possession and that this is still true today. Now, is it possible PA or WA have not handed everything over? Definitely. Is it possible Idaho ASKED PA or WA to delay providing any documents? I suppose that is possible, although it would certainly be dirty pool and we have absolutely no proof of that, or even any rumor of that. MOOooo

These are attorneys on a death penalty case. I am expecting a higher and more specific level of language than the standard (what sounds like) templated version of we gave what we have. I can suspend disbelief and say maybe they don't have the Moscow PD notes. But then the question is WHY. How is it possible that they don't? IMO, that in and of itself requires further explanation.

MOO.
 
  • #337
His lie about his inexperience with crosswalks in rural PA just flowed off his tongue with zero effort. Just wow.

All MOO
SBMFF

But was it a lie? I've never been to rural PA so can't comment on whether or not they do or don't have crosswalks. I do know that some rural areas I've been in on the west coast don't have them. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. But yeah, he definitely played the "I'm not familiar with crosswalks were I'm from" card to get out of a ticket. And it worked! lol

A few key facts from rural communities:
  • Children who live in rural areas are 25% more likely to be overweight than children who live in urban areas.
  • Rural children (and adults) have lower levels of physical activity.
  • Small towns and rural areas often have fewer safe walking conditions, like sidewalks, street lighting and crosswalks.
 
  • #338
Oh, I agree that is what happened. I just think that if every traffic cop in Pullman took this amount of time educating an out-of-state person, that would be so different to what I've seen in every place I've lived.

I hope that this same police person gives the same lessons to all the people she stops.
She is very nice. I think what happened here is he pulls into intersection to make a left, waits on traffic, light goes red and he turns. Happens a million times a day. She pulls him over using that as a pretext for a stop. It is a college town, she is looking for drunk drivers. He questions her about it, he is questioning but respectful in my opinion, she is patient and professional as well. She gives him the statute on obstructing an intersections but she knows full well she will never get a citation on that to stand so she just warns. But she seems like a very good officer. Very professional, and patient.
 
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  • #339
Might I suggest muting the audio & just watching after listening/watching the entire stop video? It’s something I find helpful, but I’m weird!

My interpretation was he was arrogant, manipulative, & able to adjust on the fly based on feedback. MOO

Also MOO, but I think he moved here expecting to be a big fish — we see that All. The. Time. in students who move here. Instead, he remained an unimpressive little fish in a larger pond. I don’t think he handled his inability to dazzle very well. All MOO.

I'll go do that right now - I do it all the time (it's usually what I do first). It enhances observation of body language and micro-expressions, of course.

Starting just before 3:00, he does become animated and his facial expression becomes, generally speaking, irritated or angry. At around 3:20, he gives a hard stare (a kind of confrontational gesture), At 3:24 he is either feigning puzzlement or is actually puzzled by the variation in traffic laws.

Just before 8:50 and following, he attempts to continue to look puzzled, but has a faint sneer - so I do see what you're saying. But overall, he stays fairly respectful - he's clearly a bit nervous, but most people are when interacting with cops.

She writes him no ticket at all and spends about 10 minutes, not counting the time for the actual pull over.

I just couldn't help marveling at his supraorbital ridge (browridge) and its relative robustness (and his deep-socketed eyes). Very common in men of Northern European ancestry, which I assume him to be. I wonder what the Parabon (genetic facial reconstruction company) method would have shown if they had his DNA.
 
  • #340
I think we'll have more of an idea about the reasons for the State not yet meeting defense's request for the 6 items when the motion to compel is addressed by the court. Orders for Discovery (16 (k)) is a separate rule from ICR Rule 16 (f) which addresses the 14 day limit for responding. A failure to respond under 16 (f) could result in sanctions being imposed but that isn't the issue here, IMO. That is, the State met it's obligations under 16 (f). MOO​
Motions to compel specific requests fall under 16 (k). This seems to suggest that the court, in a way, will decide if compelling the discovery of the specific items is lawful/allowable or not? MOO​
"ICR 16 (K)
(k) Orders for Discovery. If a party has failed to comply with a request for discovery under this rule, the court, on motion of a party, may:
(1) order a party to permit the discovery or inspection,
(2) prohibit the discovery of part or all of the information, evidence or material sought to be discovered, or
(3) enter such other order as it deems just in the circumstances.
An order of the court granting discovery under this rule must specify the time, place and manner of making the discovery and inspection and provide reasonable terms and conditions."​
IMO, more light will be shed soon enough.​
EBM: added source.​
 
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