4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[jepop]

BBM

I just hope the prosecution has enough evidence for the judge to set this Case over for trial.

I don't think it matters where his phone pinged over the summer and into the fall except for where his phone pinged that specific night. Quite the coincidence that a car matching his car lines up with all those cell tower pings from that night from his phone.

But if he is innocent I'm sure his attorneys can account for his whereabouts that late night/early morning, like why he was driving to different towns in Idaho. Bar hopping?

Good. Then there will be camera evidence for his attorneys to present. BK just out socializing in different locations on Saturday night as per usual, nothing new. Plenty of social buddies to vouch for him.

Must just be a strange coincidence that his phone was deliberately turned off between 4:00 - 4:30 am that night. His lawyers can look for phone records that show he does this all the time at 4:00am, along with 4:00am "town hopping."

Really unlucky guy.

Speaking in hypotheticals, if defense presents an alibi at PH, I don't think it will be bar hopping, at least not after his phone reeconnects at c4.50 near Blaine. From that point BK takes the 'scenic' route back to Pullman and when you do the math, he didn't have time to hop and/or pop into a bar at any of those towns on the way. He's back in Pullman area at approx 5.25 (on Johnston Road). Hypothetically, defense may/could account for his whereabouts between c2.50 and 4.50 when phone is disconnected, given that he turns up just 15 minutes south of Moscow at the latter time. Though it beats me as to why they wouldn't have somehow done this already if he had a supportable/unassailable alibi. Because if he did, then LE should be out there looking for the 'real killer'. MOO

 

[ktm44]

All records in this case are under the gag order. All of the autopsy material was redacted from the PCA. So I would assume the tox screens are part of the record at this point in time.

We have to presume tests were done, but they are under seal (and probably irrelevant for the public to know unless the defense decides to make it an issue, which they may try to do).

IMO.

In one of the very early press conferences, LE indicated that autopsies had been performed and they would not be releasing toxicology tests to the public since it was part of an ongoing investigation.

I'm agreeing with your statement and only pointing out that LE had indicated early on that the tests had been performed.

 

[10ofRods]

In one of the very early press conferences, LE indicated that autopsies had been performed and they would not be releasing toxicology tests to the public since it was part of an ongoing investigation.

I'm agreeing with your statement and only pointing out that LE had indicated early on that the tests had been performed.e

Yep. The ME up in Spokane is, IMO, expert and has top notch facilities. Thank you for referencing the early press conference.

As to the relevance of the toxicology reports, I think they are highly relevant and the defense will want to see them. OTOH, they could also aid the State.

I wonder if BK had a hair-based toxicology analysis (we know he had DNA analysis, I would think that they would have done a full forensic study of him upon his arrival in Idaho). Those results, if they exist, would b very interesting to hear (and if he is completely drug-free, that might aid the defense). Cocaine, heroin and cannabis can all be detected in forensic hair analysis. I imagine there are even more compounds that can be tested for at the right facility.

IMO.

 

[al66pine]

Is Def't Required to Notify Prosecutor of Affirmative Defenses PRE-TRIAL in ID?

I do think Idaho is a state where it is required, pre-trial, for the defense to state its affirmative defenses... IMO.

snipped for focus @10ofRods
If ID requires def't to notify the state of all affirmative defenses pre-trial, and if req'mt is in Idaho Criminal RULE 16(c), below, I'm missing it.
Anyone?

But re ALIBI defense specifically, Idaho Criminal RULE 12.1. Notice of Alibi,** states in its entirety:
"If the defendant intends to rely on the defense of alibi, the defendant must comply with Idaho Code § 19-519."

Idaho STATUTE*** specifically requires def't to notify the state pre-trial, of ALIBI -
--- place(s) def't claims to have been when crime occurred;
--- name(s) & address(es) of witness(es) def't intends to rely on to estab. alibi.
Also requires st. to give reciprocal info re witness name(s) & address(es) re establishing def't's presence at scene, and sets deadlines for pre-trial notice; allows ct. to extend deadlines; yadda, yadda.

So except for alibi defense, I'm not seeing that ID. requires crim def't to notify prosecutor of other affirmative defenses pre-trial. ICBW.
Welcoming clarification or correction, esp'ly from our other legal professionals.

=================================================
* I.C.R. 16. Discovery and Inspection | Supreme Court
"Idaho Criminal Rule 16. Discovery and Inspection
"(c) Disclosure of Evidence by the Defendant on Written Request. Except as otherwise provided in this rule, the defendant must, at any time following the filing of charges against the defendant, on written request by the prosecuting attorney, disclose the following information, evidence and material to the prosecuting attorney:

"(1) Documents and Tangible Objects. On written request of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant must permit the prosecuting attorney to inspect and copy or photograph:
(A) books,
(B) papers,
(C) documents,
(D) photographs, and
(E) tangible objects,
or copies or portions of them, that are in the possession, custody or control of the defendant, and that the defendant intends to introduce in evidence at the trial.

"(2) Reports of Examinations and Tests. On written request of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant must permit the prosecuting attorney to inspect and copy or photograph any results or reports of physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests or experiments made in connection with the particular case if they are within the possession or control of the defendant, that the defendant intends to introduce in evidence at the trial, or that were prepared by a witness whom the defendant intends to call at the trial when the results or reports relate to testimony of the witness.

"(3) Defense Witness. On written request of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant must furnish the prosecuting attorney a list of names and addresses of witnesses the defendant intends to call at trial.

"(4) Expert Witnesses. On written request of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant must provide a written summary or report of any testimony that the defense intends to introduce pursuant to Rules 702, 703 or 705 of the Idaho Rules of Evidence at trial or hearing. The summary provided must describe the witness’s opinions, the facts and data for those opinions and the witness’s qualifications. Disclosure of expert opinions regarding mental health must also comply with the requirements of Idaho Code § 18-207. The defense is not required to produce any materials not subject to disclosure under subsection (h) of this Rule, or any material otherwise protected from disclosure by defendant’s constitutional rights."

** I.R.C. 12.1. Notice of Alibi. | Supreme Court
*** Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

ETA: Sorry, somehow my post did not show the link to post by @10ofRods.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

This is so darned heartbreaking. All the loss is overwhelming. It really is, well put, @Helechawagirl It is soooo heartbreaking and overwhelming... the only thing that could possibly make this tragedy the least bit better in some small way, will be justice for Xana, Maddie, Kaylee, and Ethan =...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Idaho transplant]

Yep. The ME up in Spokane is, IMO, expert and has top notch facilities. Thank you for referencing the early press conference.

As to the relevance of the toxicology reports, I think they are highly relevant and the defense will want to see them. OTOH, they could also aid the State.

I wonder if BK had a hair-based toxicology analysis (we know he had DNA analysis, I would think that they would have done a full forensic study of him upon his arrival in Idaho). Those results, if they exist, would b very interesting to hear (and if he is completely drug-free, that might aid the defense). Cocaine, heroin and cannabis can all be detected in forensic hair analysis. I imagine there are even more compounds that can be tested for at the right facility.

IMO.

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

 

[10ofRods]

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

I'm including toxicology tests on Kohberger. If it turns out that Kohberger was using any one of the drugs that can be screened for in a hair panel (which with his length of hair would probably go back around 3 months or so), that would aid the prosecution. BK has a history of using heroin. When he kicked heroin, after high school (and after the TapATalk posts where made), classmates report a "personality change." He does some inpatient treatment of some kind (source is in the media thread, I can try to track it down). Whether that care was rehab (which I suspect it was) or for an eating disorder (BK is reported to have lost half his body weight near the end of high school), we don't know.

People with eating disorders and former opiate addictions are prone to relapse.

All speculation. But yeah, if in addition to everything else, it can be shown that Kohberger was a recent and active drug user, it does not help his case, at all.

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

Toxicology on the victims not toxicology on the witnesses at the scene.

 

[jepop]

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

I think toxicology tests would have only been done on the deceased victims, not the other two housemates? The two surviving housemates are also victims, IMO, but there has been no suggestion by LE or media that either were eye witnesses to the crime. DM did state that she saw a male person in dark clothing and a mask inside the house though which corroborates other evidence of PC against the defendant (per Probable Cause Affidavit). MOO

 

[ktm44]

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

Toxicology would not relate to witnesses and we have no indication that they were given BAC tests but I suspect they did not.

 

[maskedwoman]

@BeginnerSleuther, I think your original opinion is quite valid, and I'm providing the links to support this.

IMO the prosecution would know what valid affirmative defenses BK might have and if there were evidence to support those defenses. They would know this because the laws for murder are codified, so it's not a grab-bag of excuses.

Here are the ID statutes for Justifiable Homicide, Excusable Homicide, and Manslaughter. Those are the statutes that would allow for a 'yes, I did it, but... ' affirmative defense.

Chapter 40 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Thank you for laying this out so clearly. It's so helpful!

 

[Cool Cats]

Mogen family asks community to do random acts of kindness on 'Maddie May Day' to honor slain UI student​

Mogen family asks community to do random acts of kindness on 'Maddie May Day' to honor slain UI student

May 13—After Maddie May Mogen was killed along with three other University of Idaho students last fall, her family struggled in the midst of such dark and heavy circumstances to find a way to remember the joy she brought to them. Mogen's aunt, Katie Blackshear, and her sister wanted to...

www.yahoo.com

—After Maddie May Mogen was killed along with three other University of Idaho students last fall, her family struggled in the midst of such dark and heavy circumstances to find a way to remember the joy she brought to them.

Mogen's aunt, Katie Blackshear, and her sister wanted to commemorate Mogen's joyful spirit on her birthday, May 25, and their friends also wanted to join in.

Maddie May Day was born.

"We were just trying to think of any positivity that could come out of this," Blackshear said. "It's so simple. We're asking people to do random acts of kindness on her birthday."

The family created a website and #MaddieMayDay for people to share their good deeds. They also created an Instagram, @maddie.may.day, for the occasion.

Blackshear has started her acts of kindness by bringing cookies to her local Pi Beta Phi chapter, the sorority of which Mogen was a member.

On the Maddie May Day website, a family friend created gift tags, cards and posters for the day so people can attach them to a plate of cookies and share why they're going out of their way to make someone's day, Blackshear said.

"We're hoping that this becomes an annual movement," Blackshear said. "Kind of sharing with the world all of the amazing things that happen in Maddie's memory."

 

[Boxer]

I could see where the toxocology tests could help the defense if the one eyewitness was too impaired to accurately describe the defendant but how could the tests help the prosecution?

In any case MOO why would a witness being drunk or high make any difference?

She told what she saw, later her information did not exclude a primary suspect.

 

[10ofRods]

In any case MOO why would a witness being drunk or high make any difference?

She told what she saw, later her information did not exclude a primary suspect.

It would matter only to a certain kind of juror, I would think. At any rate, since it is very likely not going to come into evidence (I doubt they did toxicology on the housemates), it's a moot point.

And if the victims themselves had alcohol or some other substance in their systems, while in their beds/bedrooms, it only makes the killer look more vicious, opportunistic, hateful and callous. Victimology would be "who can I kill who is completely helpless?"?

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Speaking in hypotheticals, if defense presents an alibi at PH, I don't think it will be bar hopping, at least not after his phone reeconnects at c4.50 near Blaine. From that point BK takes the 'scenic' route back to Pullman and when you do the math, he didn't have time to hop and/or pop into a bar at any of those towns on the way. He's back in Pullman area at approx 5.25 (on Johnston Road). Hypothetically, defense may/could account for his whereabouts between c2.50 and 4.50 when phone is disconnected, given that he turns up just 15 minutes south of Moscow at the latter time. Though it beats me as to why they wouldn't have somehow done this already if he had a supportable/unassailable alibi. Because if he did, then LE should be out there looking for the 'real killer'. MOO

Wasn't his car spotted going through a fast food drive through in one of those towns?

 

[PrairieWind]

Thanks! Louis Freeh, former Director of the FBI is the Commencement speaker, speaking now

I wish I could see that. I'd like to hear him speak.

 

[PrairieWind]

In any case MOO why would a witness being drunk or high make any difference?

She told what she saw, later her information did not exclude a primary suspect.

An intoxication level of a key witness would be very important. Because her perception and memory would be impaired.

 

[10ofRods]

At 4 am, I doubt the two early-retiring housemates were still under the influence. But I also doubt that they were asked to do a breathalyzer (makes no sense in the circumstances - bloodwork would be needed; I doubt LE decided to do that for two non-suspects).

Thankfully. If it turns out they did test the two survivors, that's going to change some people's views on the victim friendliness of the otherwise apparently compassionate MPD.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Wasn't his car spotted going through a fast food drive through in one of those towns?

It was a drive-through coffee stand in Clarkston, near the Albertson's where he bought "whatever" (I'd bet a waffle it's now known what he purchased).

Worker at the stand said he drove through without buying anything. That side of the road is on the banks of the Snake River. IIRC, he also parked over on that side for a little bit (near the campground).

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

It was a drive-through coffee stand in Clarkston, near the Albertson's where he bought "whatever" (I'd bet a waffle it's now known what he purchased).

Worker at the stand said he drove through without buying anything. That side of the road is on the banks of the Snake River. IIRC, he also parked over on that side for a little bit (near the campground).

IMO.

Snake River you say....parking by the Snake River.....

Hummm....We know what rivers are used for.

 

[Nila Aella]

States response to defendants 3rd supplemental request for discovery

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051223%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20Third%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

ETA to defendants 3rd supplemental request for discovery