4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

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  • #761
We know the prosecution has supported the gag order, and there are many moving parts judging by the warrants with (what seems to me) an extraordinary number of redactions, including some involving people besides the victims, suspect, and survivors. @Sister Golden Hair did a deep dive on all this. From the warrants for all DD drivers delivering to the King St address to Tinder activity to all the bank accounts, there are probably a number of people whose privacy could be breached by evidence presented at the PH.
RSBM & BBM for focus

IMO & ICBW:

I agree. OTOH, although their reasons may differ, all parties want BK to have a fair trial, but OTOH, I don't think the prosecution's primary concern is protecting BK. I don't think this is something basic (like finding the clothes or the knife, etc.); that seems myopic to me. I think that given the scope of the warrants and some trails LE was obviously following, this is more complex. IMO & ICBW but the warrants indicate that there are bigger concerns about privacy and details that a PH would unveil (or is that unleash?) ICBW.
 
  • #762
Good catch!

Apparently there is such a judge:


Finally, a judge's name that I can easily remember!
Oh gosh,the governor who appointed him is named " "Butch" Otter", am aware of drifting OT so I'll stop here.
 
  • #763
I'm confused - I wasn't posting at all bout SG. I too am very glad that SG is now aware he can speak to the press (although he probably has no more information at this time, than we do, beyond what he learned before the gag order). Of course, he could have talked to PA and WA persons who might know things.

I too read the post about SG, but my point was that vocabulary errors early in a legal document frustrate me. A lot.
I know you weren't, but that was the ruling you had grammatical / vocabulary issues with. And since SG (the lawyer) was part of the group that wanted the gag order rescinded, saying his clients couldn't comment on the case. Yet Mr G did comment on the GJ inditment showing that the parents can make statements (despite the gag order). They might not be able to divulge specific info covered by the gag order, but they've not been completely silenced. IMHO etc
 
  • #764
  • #765
based upon what?

It does say MOO at the beginning.

Also, there is that massive amount of evidence that the State turned over to the Defense, plus the State also addressed each of the Defense's evidentiary concerns, the sun of which is "there is no such thing to turn over."

That's a big clue that the Defense has everything. IMO. If you think the State is lying in its court proceedings, I don't know what to say.

So I'd say that barring some incredible malfeasance on the part of the State, the Defense has the evidence (and probably way more than the GJ got, as it would be nearly impossible to play them 50T of audio/video and have this be done already). Now, the Defense has got to do what the State has done - and go over all of it with a fine tooth comb.

How long do you guess that would take? I'm thinking months, actually. I don't see this going to trial any time soon.

IMO.
 
  • #766
I know you weren't, but that was the ruling you had grammatical / vocabulary issues with. And since SG (the lawyer) was part of the group that wanted the gag order rescinded, saying his clients couldn't comment on the case. Yet Mr G did comment on the GJ inditment showing that the parents can make statements (despite the gag order). They might not be able to divulge specific info covered by the gag order, but they've not been completely silenced. IMHO etc
Oh, I get you now.

Yes, naturally the gag order hasn't prevented SG from speaking, it just prevents him from knowing what all the evidence is. I believe he did wonder how far he could speak, though. He knows he can weigh in on the news, I would think.

Or are you of the opinion that the State is still communicating with the families? I am not of that opinion. I believe the State is banned from sharing any of the newfound evidence with the families, they only know what they knew before the gag order.

I'm glad SG has found his voice and that this has been clarified for him (he did seem to indicate he felt gagged entirely at one point). Obviously, SG can comment on the same things we can, that was never in doubt (although I don't think SG is a WSer and may, at one point, have thought he couldn't say anything). He's always had access to the court documents, as have we.

I think he even got to see the autopsy of KG and probably MM as well, as he was "handling" things for MM's mother at one point, judging from two different early statements he made - and to me, that's the only way the State could have behaved ethically. I can't imagine having my child murdered and not getting to know how it happened, and there are many people like myself. I do feel badly that he and the other families have to wait for trial, but that's just another of the horrors that crime victims have to face.

IMO.
 
  • #767
I wonder if he used to say when he was little "when I grow up I want to be a judge".
I wonder if his friends taunted him with the Here comes the judge” song from my youth.
 
  • #768
MOO is: prosecution has not done this to try to withhold information.
MOO it's a "two-fer," keeping surviving witnesses free of essentially two trials and leaving discovery at its current status quo.
 
  • #769
NewsNation reported it. Also, a couple of outlets reported that Kohberger had "slid" into her DM's on Instagram (her Instagram is still up, although a few things may have been edited). He did this three weeks before the murders (per NewsNation who reported it before the gag order, perhaps the family members were still speaking off the record). Apparently, it was his actual account.

At any rate, we can't know whether NewsNation is reliable, but I suspect they are. Since the gag order, I've noticed that they are relying mostly on sources outside the gag order (which only reaches people in the State of Idaho - the Idaho judge cannot gag people in Pennsylvania or Washington, is my understanding).

On the forensic side, I have often wondered if they used forensic radiology (something the U of Washington has pioneered - and the ME where the autopsies were done has a state-of-the-art facility, nearly brand new, all the equipment one needs). This would be cutting edge use of their tools, as it would be able to locate microscopic metal fragments in the wounds, allowing some form of spectometry as to the chemical composition of the particles.

I also want to say that @Sister Golden Hair 's analysis of the search warrants leads me to believe they tracked down where he bought the knife <<< true that that's speculation, but I find it compelling. I also find it easy to believe.

And then there is the wider net of cell phone tower information (aside from the main towers in Moscow) AND the GPS data from his phone (which surely corroborates the ping data).

I just wish we knew how long it took to present the evidence to the GJ.

IMO.
To my knowledge, LE has not confirmed the id of the photo. JMO
 
  • #770
  • #771
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  • #772
Oh, I get you now.

Yes, naturally the gag order hasn't prevented SG from speaking, it just prevents him from knowing what all the evidence is. I believe he did wonder how far he could speak, though. He knows he can weigh in on the news, I would think.

Or are you of the opinion that the State is still communicating with the families? I am not of that opinion. I believe the State is banned from sharing any of the newfound evidence with the families, they only know what they knew before the gag order.

I'm glad SG has found his voice and that this has been clarified for him (he did seem to indicate he felt gagged entirely at one point). Obviously, SG can comment on the same things we can, that was never in doubt (although I don't think SG is a WSer and may, at one point, have thought he couldn't say anything). He's always had access to the court documents, as have we.

I think he even got to see the autopsy of KG and probably MM as well, as he was "handling" things for MM's mother at one point, judging from two different early statements he made - and to me, that's the only way the State could have behaved ethically. I can't imagine having my child murdered and not getting to know how it happened, and there are many people like myself. I do feel badly that he and the other families have to wait for trial, but that's just another of the horrors that crime victims have to face.

IMO.
No, I don't think the State is still communicating with the families, but I think they did early on -- possibly more than they should have. As in telling them details that IMHO should have been kept from the media, and that perhaps LE didn't think they'd share with the media.

I'm not sure what Mr G has been thinking. At all. And IMHO the family might do better with a different attorney. SG (attorney) hasn't impressed me at all. Maybe that's just me though. (It's been difficult to know if something is coming from the attorney or the family.) Along the same lines, I'm not sure if Mr G didn't believe he had the right to speak to the media, or if it was attorney SG who believed they couldn't speak out since he wasn't allowed to speak out (because of the gag order).

I also believe Mr G saw the autopsy reports, and I agree the parents had the right to see those if they wanted to. They didn't do an autopsy on my son when he passed, but I did talk to the coroner and then requested (and received) a copy of the coroner's report. I had to know, and I'd think at least some of the families would have felt the same.

Maybe it will be better for the families to have a little more time before the trial. Time to heal a bit before it's all brought up again. Mrs G stated in the article that she'll most likely leave the court room when explicit details are brought up (paraphrasing her), and IMHO that's a good idea. If only for her own emotional and mental health.

Just my thoughts and opinions
 
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  • #773
Think about these words:

He "did unlawfully enter" a home in Moscow.

Then did "wilfully.

Unlawfully.

Deliberately.

With premeditation

With malice aforethought.

KIll and murdered.
 
  • #774


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  • #775
I noticed that the remote (video call) hearing re defense's Motion to Compel still goes ahead 11am 05/22, later that morning after arraignment.
His right to a speedy trial starts again Monday right? There's no way this case can go to court in 6 months IDT.

MOO
 
  • #776
It's my own opinion. I don't have to base it on anything.
Of course you don't. It just seemed that you were you saying that because you wanted that to be the case, not based upon evidence. I think that the actions show that he prosecution had serious concerns about proceeding to a preliminary hearing and you have to ask yourself why. They are buying themselves time. People complain about Defenses stalling cases, but I think that is what the prosecution is doing here. They were going to have to produce evidence at that PH that they don't have yet.
 
  • #777
Of course you don't. It just seemed that you were you saying that because you wanted that to be the case, not based upon evidence. I think that the actions show that he prosecution had serious concerns about proceeding to a preliminary hearing and you have to ask yourself why. They are buying themselves time. People complain about Defenses stalling cases, but I think that is what the prosecution is doing here. They were going to have to produce evidence at that PH that they don't have yet.
What evidence do you think the State doesn't have yet?
 
  • #778
Of course you don't. It just seemed that you were you saying that because you wanted that to be the case, not based upon evidence. I think that the actions show that he prosecution had serious concerns about proceeding to a preliminary hearing and you have to ask yourself why. They are buying themselves time. People complain about Defenses stalling cases, but I think that is what the prosecution is doing here. They were going to have to produce evidence at that PH that they don't have yet.
No.

As I posted earlier, there are multiple reasons the Dad thought also this was the best option.

As @BUF commented earlier the superseding indictment means the accused quadruple murderer will not have a chance to attack the evidence used to arrest him at a preliminary hearing that had been scheduled.

But, most importantly it also spares the two surviving housemates and other potential witnesses from having to testify under cross-examination prior to trial.
 
  • #779
Of course you don't. It just seemed that you were you saying that because you wanted that to be the case, not based upon evidence. I think that the actions show that he prosecution had serious concerns about proceeding to a preliminary hearing and you have to ask yourself why. They are buying themselves time. People complain about Defenses stalling cases, but I think that is what the prosecution is doing here. They were going to have to produce evidence at that PH that they don't have yet.
I respect what you're saying here. IMO, I think the prosecution's answer to the 3rd discovery motion, and also, the Motion to Compel, says that they DO HAVE the evidence, and that they have turned it over. It was a massive amount of evidence, IIRC. I have started wondering more, WHO IS BEING PROTECTED, since they did that Grand Jury indictment. I had vaguely wondered that before, since the gag order, but now I really do. All of those orders to seal say:

1684357089417.png


OR:

1684357194031.png

IMO, that could have been done to protect ANYONE, including, but not limited to: the murder victims, the living victims, the perpetrator, anyone they investigated (DD driver, friends, Rideshare person, etc.)

Do you have any thoughts about whether that could be?
 
  • #780
I've been away for a while and just heard the news about the grand jury. I don't understand. Does this happen often? Is it shady? Isn't this secret grand jury situation BK's worst nightmare, as his team cannot present any kind of case of cross-examine witnesses?

If anyone knows of a previous major murder case this happened with, I'd love to read up on it. TIA
 
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