4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[Megnut]

"Department’s end-of-year meeting"
So decision to terminate BK's TAship was made at regularly scheduled faculty meeting?

Was the meeting open to the public?
If not, how was the student's (BK followed me to my car) report get interjected into the meeting? Had she previously made report to someone in dept? Email? Letter? Phone?

Employment perf. issues (re TAship) sound like an HR type employment discussion for Exec Session, typically --- if this had been in a municipal or state level body/agency (like Public Utility Commission or City Council in many states. Also in some corners of the corporate world). Would a uni dept have similar exec sessions?
Are hiring/firing/disciplinary decisions in the hands of the Prof for whom the TA works? Was decision made at meeting by BK's Prof plus others or merely announced at meeting by decision-making Prof?

Are the dept. meeting minutes avail online? The agenda?
Can anyone in academia offer thoughts? Thx in adv.

And @Cindizzi TYVM for link to NYT article.


__________________________________
"The faculty made the decision at the department’s end-of-year meeting in December, during which professors were also told that some female students reported that Mr. Kohberger had made them feel uncomfortable. In one of those instances, Mr. Kohberger was accused of following a female student to her car, according to two people familiar with the situation..."
Feb 10.

University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and was investigated over his behavior around female students before he was charged in four murders.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder how many he followed home.

It's really unsettling.

They slither among us.

JMO

 

[schooling]

Is NewsNation a verified source here? If not, Mods, please feel free to remove...

Source: Idaho victim had Bluetooth speaker in her room

Could a Bluetooth speaker provide an additional key piece of evidence in the Idaho quadruple murders case?

www.newsnationnow.com

If they are a verified source it seems like they've turned into a gossip/rumor clearning house. As this bluetooth device thing has been floating around about a month before Kaylee's dad made the wifi claims.

I wrote a long post about how WIFI and Bluetooth can track you without you needing to make an official connection.

To sum it up. Both Bluetooth and Wifi work in a similar way. Where your device will broadcast it's availability and listen to other devices broadcasting their availability. In that broadcast a small data exchange is made. Sent in that small data exchange is your devices name and a MAC address exclusive to your device (it can be spoofed, kind of).

Even if you do not make an official connection, the devices that receive this broadcast might hold onto this identifying information in storage. Until it needs the memory and then it might clear it out. So the implication here is that the storage in her Bluetooth speaker might contain a device's MAC address associated with BK.

These exchanges are happening in the background without you doing anything (unless you manually turn bluetooth off). Big department stores use strategically placed WIFI and Bluetooth beacons (fancy name for pinging/broadcasting/receiving/logging devices) to track your movements through their stores. Hell, I use Bluetooth to detect people in my backyard who may have bluetooth enabled on them. as an added security measure.

Bluetooth and Wifi tracking is not exactly a secret. Go ahead an search for "Bluetooth Beacon" or "Wifi Beacon" now to see just how common this is. Apple has done a lot in the last few years to randomize and rotate users' MAC addresses in order to better anonymize users. But last I heard there's now technology that can 'fingerprint' someone by the amount of radio signal their phone is emitting. Because minute manufacturing differences cause devices to have unique radio signatures. "Fingerprinting" in general is hard to escape. If you want to learn more about that I also posted about behavioral, hardware, and software fingerprinting on your computer.

Check my post history if you want a slightly longer more detailed version of the above, including handshaking etc.

ALSO, worth noting that 6 or 7 years ago Airplane mode would have turned off your Bluetooth. This was an especially frustrating experience when you were listening ot something on a plane and it was time to go into Airplane mode and your headphones cut off. BUT now with the power efficiency of Low Energy Bluetooth 4 and the small broadcasting data packets Airplane mode no longer deactivates Bluetooth on the majority of phones.

Most people I ask didn't even notice this change of behavior and always assumed Airplane mode disabled all radios.

 

[Megnut]

Piggy backing on the current discussion, another reason not to broadcast bloody footprints: a perpetrator may have thought he didn't leave any footprints or thought he had cleaned up after himself... no need to beg him to discard his footwear.

JMO

 

[ktm44]

My thoughts on the cell tower data.

I am not sure why some here are so confident that there are only 6-7 cell towers in Moscow, ID. To me, it seems there are way more. Sure, there are probably only 7 Verizon or ATT towers, but our phones do not know that. Our phones ping every tower around - even if our phones cannot complete the handshake to use that cell tower. Some of the cell towers belong to big telecommunications and those companies are accustomed to giving up their data via subpoena. However, it takes time to round up ALL the towers. I think LE went with their earliest results, and mentioned the 12 pings.

That being said, the way pings are reconstructed is to analyze as many towers as possible (some servers attached to those towers may not store data for long; others may store it for a long time). It's not really necessary to analyze all the towers that will be shown on the map I'm about to attach - but my point is that there are WAY more towers in Moscow than just 7 and that more data has come in since the PCA. The following map was posted by a WSer many threads ago; this was a person with a background in cellular technology:

AntennaSearch - Search for Cell Towers & Antennas

Search for the locations of cell towers and antennas to determine cell reception.

www.antennasearch.com

Note that it says there are 26 towers in the Moscow area (and a bunch of antennae, but those are relevant to us here, IMO).



I've never seen it. It's not evidence.

Aside from people like ourselves, most people will never see it. It is not evidence, it's a pleading in front of the court - it's for the court, and it is over. Jury won't see any pre-trial motions, either. Only evidence that is submitted to the court and upon which both sides have been able to weigh in - before a judge decides whether it's proper evidence - will get in front of the jury.

Going outside that evidence is a violation of the trust that is put in a jury and the judge will warn them sternly not to sleuth the case.

It's entirely possible and my hope that DM will not have to take the stand. The defense certainly won't call her (IMO), and I do not see much value in the prosecution calling her and allowing her to be grilled upon cross-examination. I suppose the judge could allow a sworn affidavit of hers to be presented by whoever took her sworn statement (an investigator),

IMO.

I could be proven very wrong but at this point, I really don't feel she's has a lot to offer as far as actual testimony except a general timeline and an unknown person in the house.

I'm wondering if perhaps her and the other roommate may have had a running conversation/vent about household activities that evening since the PCA does suggest that her sleep may have been interrupted. Could something like that be used to establish timeline without forcing her to testify?

I don't think her testimony would be overly detrimental to either side but I could see it not being all that good for her mental health. She's going through a lot and there seems to be a lot of ugliness directed at her on social media, which has put her in a harsh light.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Piggy backing on the current discussion, another reason not to broadcast bloody footprints: a perpetrator may have thought he didn't leave any footprints or thought he had cleaned up after himself... no need to beg him to discard his footwear.

JMO

IMO JMO true that! Very good reason not to release that info prior imo jmo. No reason not to include it in the PCA, however, since BK and his counsel would be privy to that once he was charged, and discovery turned over on 1.23 (17-18 days later).

 

[Sundog]

"Department’s end-of-year meeting"
So decision to terminate BK's TAship was made at regularly scheduled faculty meeting?

Was the meeting open to the public?
If not, how was the student's (BK followed me to my car) report get interjected into the meeting? Had she previously made report to someone in dept? Email? Letter? Phone?

Employment perf. issues (re TAship) sound like an HR type employment discussion for Exec Session, typically --- if this had been in a municipal or state level body/agency (like Public Utility Commission or City Council in many states. Also in some corners of the corporate world). Would a uni dept have similar exec sessions?
Are hiring/firing/disciplinary decisions in the hands of the Prof for whom the TA works? Was decision made at meeting by BK's Prof plus others or merely announced at meeting by decision-making Prof?

Are the dept. meeting minutes avail online? The agenda?
Can anyone in academia offer thoughts? Thx in adv.

And @Cindizzi TYVM for link to NYT article.


__________________________________
"The faculty made the decision at the department’s end-of-year meeting in December, during which professors were also told that some female students reported that Mr. Kohberger had made them feel uncomfortable. In one of those instances, Mr. Kohberger was accused of following a female student to her car, according to two people familiar with the situation..."
Feb 10.

University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and was investigated over his behavior around female students before he was charged in four murders.

www.nytimes.com

Below is information on how the Graduate School at WSU evaluates student performance in relation to their teaching assistantships and there is a link to the forms that are used by their faculty advisor. It is also clear that the TA funding can be revoked if the student receives a poor evaluation per their guidelines. This would be handled by the faculty member, his or her department chair, and the Graduate School (Dean or other administrator like an Associate Dean of the WSU Graduate School). Part of the Graduate School's functions include HR functions when it comes to TA's and other graduate school funding.

With regard to student confidentiality, including graduate students, FERPA law allows disclosure to university officials with a legitimate educational interest. So with a small faculty in the Dept of Crim at WSU, one would expect that there would be a legitimate educational interest in the faculty discussing the revocation of an assistantship for one of their graduate students. There would be no executive session, but if there were individuals who normally attended the departmental meetings, then they would be asked to step out of the meeting during this discussion if they were not covered under FERPA law with a reasonable "need to know."

The department clearly followed a progressive discipline model and documented each step along the way, which is typical HR practice and required as the student has grievance/appeal rights with the WSU Graduate School if no resolution is found within their academic department.

More information at link below, including the criteria for regular evaluations by faculty of a graduate student's performance as a TA, which is required at WSU by the Graduate School.

Certification of Assistantship Duties​

If a graduate student is appointed to an assistantship for a semester, including the summer, or for the entire academic year, the department is responsible for ensuring that the student receives a review of their progress in fulfilling the responsibilities of the assistantship. In addition, all students appointed to an assistantship must certify annually that they have met the requirements of the assistantship. Certification requires both the student’s and the department/supervisor’s signature indicating that the student did all of the following during their appointment period:

• remained enrolled full time (at least 10 credits);
• maintained a 3.0 cumulative GPA during the period of the appointment; and
• met the service requirement of an average of 20 hours per week for 0.5 FTE as scheduled by the department/supervisor (or based on hours required for partial FTE appointment).

This certification requirement may be added to the department’s annual review form and/or the assistantship review form. The Graduate School’s annual review template has a sample certification section. If the student did not meet one or more of these requirements, the student will not be reappointed to the assistantship, unless he/she is granted an exception to policy based on extenuating circumstances. Exceptions to policy must be submitted by the department to the Dean of the Graduate School. Download the Student Annual Review Template (Word version) or the GA Evaluations Form (PDF).

 

[Sundog]

WSU's policy is that a graduate student may apply for a leave of absence but it must be done within 30 days of the semester for which they are applying for a leave of absence. And the leave of absence could be up to one year.

So I guess BK didn't apply for a leave of absence since we are now past 30 days into the spring semester, or WBK did apply for a leave of absence and WSU denied his leave of absence request.

Or he actually is on a leave of absence (which I seriously doubt).

 

[Sundog]

I wonder how many he followed home.

It's really unsettling.

They slither among us.

JMO

The article did say that -

"In the case of the female students, the university’s investigation did not find Mr. Kohberger guilty of any wrongdoing, two people said, and it was other matters that prompted the decision to eliminate his funding and remove him from the teaching assistant job. That decision, they said, was based on his unsatisfactory performance as a teaching assistant, including his failure to meet the “norms of professional behavior” in his interactions with the faculty."

edited formatting

 

[monkey222]

BK must really have showed poor professional skills to be reprimanded within the first!! month of his new academic stint. And he is no spring chicken as a grad student, he is a full adult.

I can only wonder if he knew he was being canned at his Dec 9 mtg, or if he thought the riff would blow over after the holiday break.
..
Did he find out via email on 20 Dec of his relief of duties when he was in PA? When did he clean his car out? take trash out. Maybe this was his first inkling that he had an uphill battle going back to WA after break (besides his other problem...)
..
Did he share any of his performance TA debacle with Dad?

Imagine his faculty advisor and the end of year team that decided to can him, when they found out 10 days later that he was captured during the night as suspect. I bet they shuttered, what great instincts they had!

 

[Montecore1]

Although the latent shoe print is compared to Vans, like BK has, I don't feel like the shoe print was a key piece of physical evidence in the PCA. Jmo. Especially at that point in the investigation, prior to BK's arrest and the search of his apartment.

I must have missed the report that BCK owns Vans shoes, thats interesting. Can you provide the source and link stating that as fact please?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

There's a very good reason not to mention all the prints.

No prosecutor or lead investigator wants to give clues - to the public or to the suspect - that will enable either group to do what people do: impersonate suspects, or make up a story that explains the prints.

In the case of BK, they don't want him able to sit in his cell and think about how to explain the prints. He doesn't get that privilege He's not entitled to the evidence in its totality until he is arrested, not before. Too many details makes it easier for criminals to spin alibis, that's the bottom line.

So if they DO know what he bought in Albertson's in Clarkston, they do not put it in the PCA because they want to *ask* him what he bought there, what he was doing there - if his attorney will allow it. His attorney is very unlikely to do so.

Instead, the evidence will go before a **jury** and the defense will have advance notice of the sum of it, and the defendant can try to aid his attorney in his own defense. But to give the entire world a bunch of the evidence when a suspect isn't even in custody is a terrible idea, both constitutionally and in terms of legal strategies.

I am guessing there are myriad details that only the murderer knows. But his pathway through the house unfolds over 15-17 minutes and is **the** crucial story for trial. No footprints leading in, bloody crime, then footprints in blood - showing what? Showing, most likely, who was killed first and who was killed last. Only the killer knew this, beforehand. Now LE knows it too and can use the information to build a great scenario - for the jury.

I can't even imagine the mess this case would be if LE had dumped all that bloody footprint data on the public. They will likely only use some of the remaining footprint data at prelim - the rest of it will be car evidence, GPS (not yet used at all), possible further phone pings, possible computer searches, and some surprises, I'm sure.

This was not my question or my point. I understand the reason for not dumping all of the evidence. thanks, though.

 

[Gemmie]

I must have missed the report that BCK owns Vans shoes, thats interesting. Can you provide the source and link stating that as fact please?

I have not seen anywhere that BK owns Van's shoes. I have seen where he was wearing "Van's type" shoes in jail which are likely not his own shoes. If they were his own, and indeed Vans, I'm sure they'd have been taken from him by now as evidence.

Kohberger, the Pennsylvania man accused in the quadruple murder, was seen wearing Vans-style shoes as authorities walked him into a Monroe County courthouse last week – but those cannot be the same shoes that left the footprint, experts tell Fox News Digital.

"They could be the prison shoes that they gave him, the slip-ons, because they don't want you taking off the laces and hanging yourself," said Joseph Giacalone, a retired NYPD sergeant and adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

If police have recovered the shoes that left the print, they would be in evidence, he added.

Bryan Kohberger case: Footprint found inside Idaho crime scene could help cops build case

The footprint found inside the Idaho home where a Ph.D. criminal justice student allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho undergrads to death could help police build their case beyond the initial probable cause affidavit, experts say.

www.fox6now.com

and....

Despite the discovery of a shoe print at the crime scene, the unsealed search warrant of Kohberger's apartment did not say that investigators recovered a shoe that matched the description of the print.

MSN

 

[IDK]

Piggy backing on the current discussion, another reason not to broadcast bloody footprints: a perpetrator may have thought he didn't leave any footprints or thought he had cleaned up after himself... no need to beg him to discard his footwear.

JMO

Right— but they’ve already given away the fact that it’s likely a Van’s shoe print?
So why would mentioning more of the same make a difference? The suspect already knows they’ve got a Van’s footprint— so the detail is no longer confidential.

 

[TL4S]

I must have missed the report that BCK owns Vans shoes, thats interesting. Can you provide the source and link stating that as fact please?

I apologize, I didn't have the PCA in front of me when I wrote that and I recalled incorrectly. The mention of a diamond pattern, like Vans, was made, but there is no known connection to BK having Vans, that I know of. Thanks for pointing this out!

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Despite the discovery of a shoe print at the crime scene, the unsealed search warrant of Kohberger's apartment did not say that investigators recovered a shoe that matched the description of the print.

MSN

SBM

I was curious about the Vans. I own a couple of pair, so I wondered about their demographics. I'm not sure what I can link, so I'll just say that my research tells me that given the market share and sales $s, and the fact that the demographics cover a real span, imo jmo LE needs to find either the shoes or at least evidence that the killer wore a whole lot of Vans to make any footprints meaningful other than potentially indication size/weight of killer. OJ's
bruno maglis were meaningful evidence linked too late. Vans not so much imo jmo

Purpose At Work: How Vans Unlocks Growth And Impact Through A Genuine Commitment To Community

Through hard times and good, brands that cultivate meaningful relationships with key stakeholders survive and thrive. That’s the case with youth culture mainstay, Vans. In 1966, Paul Van Doren started selling vulcanized rubber-soled deck shoes with canvas tops out of a small shop in front of...

www.forbes.com

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Right— but they’ve already given away the fact that it’s likely a Van’s shoe print?
So why would mentioning more of the same make a difference? The suspect already knows they’ve got a Van’s footprint— so the detail is no longer confidential.

Exactly. and LE couldn't hide it from BK or his counsel anyway, so no big reveal.

BTW, I appreciate your posts because you give thoughtful and objective response to the evidence/process. thanks for that!

 

[TL4S]

SBM

I was curious about the Vans. I own a couple of pair, so I wondered about their demographics. I'm not sure what I can link, so I'll just say that my research tells me that given the market share and sales $s, and the fact that the demographics cover a real span, imo jmo LE needs to find either the shoes or at least evidence that the killer wore a whole lot of Vans to make any footprints meaningful other than potentially indication size/weight of killer. OJ's
bruno maglis were meaningful evidence linked too late. Vans not so much imo jmo

Purpose At Work: How Vans Unlocks Growth And Impact Through A Genuine Commitment To Community

Through hard times and good, brands that cultivate meaningful relationships with key stakeholders survive and thrive. That’s the case with youth culture mainstay, Vans. In 1966, Paul Van Doren started selling vulcanized rubber-soled deck shoes with canvas tops out of a small shop in front of...

www.forbes.com

And IMO, this is potentially why there was no other mention of footprints in the PCA other than the latent one, which supported DM's story of the man's path of travel exiting the house, which also coincides with camera footage of the white elantra then leaving the scene. Any footprints in blood or whatnot, before BK's arrest, would be from an unknown perpetrator and likely not helpful to an arrest affidavit. It will be interesting to see how footwear is used as evidence in trial. Jmo.

 

[TeaTime]

In an earlier post, I wrote information that I obtained from several detectives and their supervisors in a large city PD. All agreed.

"If I have 10 facts leading to probable cause, I may use three to get the warrant and keep the others close to the vest."

Standard strategy.

There may have been hundreds of bloody footprints all over the place, but there is no reason to list them in the PCA. Only one was necessary to corroborate, and give credibility to, the eye witness statement of all the commotion she heard and what she saw that morning.

We are not entitled to know everything LE knows until it is released for public consumption.

 

[Glimma0927]

Right— but they’ve already given away the fact that it’s likely a Van’s shoe print?
So why would mentioning more of the same make a difference? The suspect already knows they’ve got a Van’s footprint— so the detail is no longer confidential.

I wonder mentioning the specific brand of shoe in the PCA might have something to with LE making a case to for search warrants--wanting to show the judge that they have something specific they want to look for. After all, the PCA is meant for a judge's eyes first and foremost.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Deleted