4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 72

[10ofRods]

Imo, it is compelling enough for what its worth. LE didn't know who that shoe print belonged to then. They did, however, have the other evidence linking directly to BK. DM's statement narrative was a couple paragraphs in the PCA, while the vehicle and other digital evidence was pages and pages. I guess I'm inclined to think that at a time when LE didn't have BK's shoes to compare with, even a thousand bloody shoe prints weren't useful in an arrest PCA. That's why I lean towards the ideas I've posted. Now, if LE does indeed find a diamond-patterned pair of shoes at BK's with victim DNA on it, then these shoe prints become binding, for sure.

The print was useful, IMO.

The goal of a PCA is to give LE latitude to look for possible shoes. Naturally, since it's the first step in the process of arrest, they don't have all the evidence yet - they are looking for more.

"Binding" is subject to what the jury thinks. And if no diamond-soled shoes are found, this will likely never come up at court. Ever.

Because who would introduce it? If the defense tries to, the prosecution will point out that the shoes were the right size and indicated a person of BK's height. If those shoe prints don't do that, then the defense has a nice piece of exculpatory evidence.

I believe LE is smarter than that. They know his height and probably his shoe size already, when they make that PCA. They were onto him from around the third week of November and it isn't rocket science to catch an observation of this person and figure out his shoe size. If his foot doesn't match that shoe size, then it's exculpatory and these are the most bungling cops in recent history - which I firmly reject. The inference in some posts that LE are basically incapable really bugs me. This is LE friendly forum.

I don't believe they handed the defense a bit of exculpatory evidence right in the PCA. And the judge didn't think so either.
So.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

try this

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/poco...iatrist-weighs-in/article_3c9f8cde-9205-11ed- 80a7-5b450e354968.html

MSM but it is quoted memories from a friend- not his W2

It still doesn't work because last part was cut off - but it will help people find it - thanks! I posted a link too (I think it's to the same site). Not sure why it keeps truncating, took me a couple of tries.

Truly appreciate the link, though. He definitely worked for at least a short time at a pizza place.

And, excellent point about it being merely a (heroin-using) friend and not a W-2. This case has so many mazes in it.

IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

So a little bit of pizza work was all he had before he went into being a TA.

RSBM

He also worked as a security officer at a school, I think maybe the same high school he went to as a student? There are articles about it because while he was working there, a student had a medical incident that another officer responded to, and he is named as being in the periphery of the incident.

 

[schooling]

But how could he succeed while having so many unresolved issues???

Living under protective wings of devoted parents till mid 20ties?

He ran across the continent to be independent at last.

Consumed by morbid obsessions.

How can such a person be a good teacher???
Respected educator???

Words simply fail me.

JMO

There's certain people who are smart enough to get by on coasting and B.S. They are often the amongst the smartest people in the room and some educators are taken by that.

My guess is that when he became a small fish in a bigger pond he likely met a room full of his intellectual matches...the B.S. he's gotten away with his entire life stopped working.

MMO, of course.

 

[Dotta]

It still doesn't work because last part was cut off - but it will help people find it - thanks! I posted a link too (I think it's to the same site). Not sure why it keeps truncating, took me a couple of tries.

Truly appreciate the link, though. He definitely worked for at least a short time at a pizza place.

IMO.

Serves you right not to trust me haha
I wrote he worked there, so he worked there!!!

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Due to the violence, I think we all have a hard time believing that there weren't bloody shoe prints all over the place. I also find it hard to believe the latent print wasn't the tail end of his shoe leaving heavier prints as he walked, but who knows. Perhaps the other prints didn't have as clear a diamond pattern. Your question is fair. I'm not sure we'll get an answer until trial, though.

yep. common sense tells us how footprints work, and this doesn't make sense imo I have a few theories, but I was hoping others would have thought about it, too. All I've gotten so far are rote explanations multiple times, but pretty sure the guy couldn't fly, and pretty sure they'd have used better if they had it, so... if you think of anything, pls let me know.

 

[jjleroche]

But surely he knew he wasn't meeting the requirements of his PIP and that things were shaky?

You bring up a really interesting issue. What if BK thought he could get away with everything (bad TA-ing; mass murder).

What if, inside his mind, all of his transgressions were equal - and not only that, but that whatever an individual sets their mind on, no matter how narcissistic and self-serving, it's still a viable plan as long as it fulfills its own "reasonable" goals?

Because Rational Choice Theory is according to Prof B, one of his favorite theories. In this theory, here is a category of criminal who is completely rational. Indeed the theory claims that serial killers and mass murderers should be understood (at least on the first pass) as rational actors who have an illegal or immoral goal - but set about to accomplish it in the most logical and rational manner possible.

I keep thinking about that. Prof B also mentions Script Theory (where a criminal labors over a plan - but thinks of it as a kind of script or movie; in which the ending is decided by themselves)

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho (Published 2023)

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

He was being taught (and perhaps rewarded for) using these theories. Rational Choice Theory is particularly scary, because it was intended for economic theorists, when people are in a rational state of mind about markets. It wasn't intended for criminals who decide that their reasonable premise is (for example) that there are too many people, or too many people of a certain type, and it's up to them to devise a rational plan to fix it. All of their choices are thereby reasoned.

Simply stated, it's the ruination of logic by asserting that all premises are equal (and leaving morality or ethics out, altogether, IMO).

This whole case mesmerizes me because it puts into play some ideas that I know people have, but takes them to their bloodiest conclusions. IMO.

I believe BK is not stupid; but I also think he's quite mad (but thinks he's rational - as most crazy people do).

IMO

Rational Choice Theory - how interesting when considered accompanying acts of murder - sounds like it could be right up B's alley. MOO. Horrifying. I think you're onto something 10 of Rods, Thanks for sharing.

 

[jepop]

I have not seen anywhere that BK owns Van's shoes. I have seen where he was wearing "Van's type" shoes in jail which are likely not his own shoes. If they were his own, and indeed Vans, I'm sure they'd have been taken from him by now as evidence.

Kohberger, the Pennsylvania man accused in the quadruple murder, was seen wearing Vans-style shoes as authorities walked him into a Monroe County courthouse last week – but those cannot be the same shoes that left the footprint, experts tell Fox News Digital.

"They could be the prison shoes that they gave him, the slip-ons, because they don't want you taking off the laces and hanging yourself," said Joseph Giacalone, a retired NYPD sergeant and adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

If police have recovered the shoes that left the print, they would be in evidence, he added.

Bryan Kohberger case: Footprint found inside Idaho crime scene could help cops build case

The footprint found inside the Idaho home where a Ph.D. criminal justice student allegedly stabbed four University of Idaho undergrads to death could help police build their case beyond the initial probable cause affidavit, experts say.

www.fox6now.com

and....

Despite the discovery of a shoe print at the crime scene, the unsealed search warrant of Kohberger's apartment did not say that investigators recovered a shoe that matched the description of the print.

MSN

I think the alleged killer would have likely ditched the Vans well before he was arrested. Or he had a pair in PA and they were recovered there after search (still sealed warrant). MOO

 

[I'm Nobody]

But they've so far found nothing. I think that's important to note too. JMO.

Agreed.
In that same sentence from NY Post article, 2/9/23, 3 days ago:
"In fact, nothing with respect to Kohberger has come about in our investigations of cold cases or unsolved cases to this point, but we always continue to investigate and pursue leads,” he said.

I translate that as police talk for they found no similar unsolved murders in PA.

IMO Idaho 4 were BK's first murders. Any other possible crimes, rightfully, are low on the totem pole for the time being.

Thank you. I think it's important to note they have not given up looking.

MOO

 

[mom2chloe]

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Although I appreciate your input Tricia it might be beneficial to us to know who this person is and how it relates to true crime especially this case. Thanks. I for one have had a hard time keeping up here especially on this thread. Thanks!

 

[Zella]

My guess is that when he became a small fish in a bigger pond he likely met a room full of his intellectual matches...the B.S. he's gotten away with his entire life stopped working.

I've thought this as well.

Also, in my own experience in grad school, a lot of first-semester students have a mini-crisis precisely because they are so used to being a big fish in a small pond. They're used to being a standout student and the smartest kid in the room. They don't always react very well to suddenly being in a room full of mirror images of themselves and becoming a small fish in a big pond and no longer automatically the smartest kid in the room. [Kind of a funny anecdote about this, but my first day of TA orientation we did a general one for TAs and then a departmental-specific one. I cracked up at the start of the departmental one when I realized I'd already met all the TAs in my department because we'd all had shown up early and hyper-prepared for the general one. It was a very type A sort of person who generally ended up in that particular program.]

I suspect based on what we've heard about his master's program that he was, for whatever reason, well regarded in the department and probably used to not expending tons and tons of effort to do well and was very taken aback when he got to WSU and they didn't think he was all that and that it was harder than what he was used to.

IMO the people who realize that there are people smarter than you in grad school and that it's much more worthwhile to learn from them rather than be antagonistic tend to do better than the ones who double-down. That being said, though some people in my department never did get over their big fish small fish syndrome, none of them ever lashed out and murdered people over it (as far as I know!).

MOO

 

[jepop]

I completely agree. And I think both sides would not want the emotional wild card of bringing DM to the stand.

There are ways of getting her timeline into the case without having her on the stand (she swears out an affidavit under penalty of perjury, but I don't know how that would work in a capital case in Idaho).

I am just shaking my head at the meanness directed at DM online.

I wonder if one of our attorneys could weigh in on the scope of testimony - if she's brought to the stand to testify only about what she saw that night, could she be compelled to answer questions on other topics (such as the "party house," whether she'd ever seen any drug use in the house, the usual things the defense might want to get into the jurors' minds).

IMO.

I too have been pondering the question of whether DM will be called to testify. And if she is how the defense might cross examine her. I too hope that in the end the prosecution will decide her testimony is not necessary, or that a sworn affadavit or similar could do instead. But I guess that may not be possible because there is the defense right to cross examination, in terms of "what' she saw and "when" she saw it, IMO. I would feel easier about DM testifying if the defense were directed by judge (or could be objected to on every count by prosecution) from asking her questions outside of what she saw (her description of the stranger) and her timeline of events leading up to that sighting.MOO. Perhaps, if there is phone evidence between DM and BF that helps with time line, that evidence could be entered separately as forensic evidence somehow. Just thoughts and questions. MOO

edited spelling

 

[MsBetsy]

Although I appreciate your input Tricia it might be beneficial to us to know who this person is and how it relates to true crime especially this case. Thanks. I for one have had a hard time keeping up here especially on this thread. Thanks!

There is a description of his qualifications on the website. He's the director of the program, apparently.

 

[mom2chloe]

There is a description of his qualifications on the website. He's the director of the program, apparently.

Thanks but I’m missing the info of who? The director of a CJ program? Or BK’s program and if so which one? Thanks again.

 

[Dotta]

I still can't wrap my mind around that an (alleged) murderous maniac worked as TA with students at university, and mind you, in Criminology field.

As TA - sexist, unfair, patronising, passive-aggressive, making girls uncomfortable.

What kind of example did he set to students?

What does it say about this university and its teaching staff?
Didn't he ridicule them??

And what about a professor at another university, who wrote a book "How to catch a serial killer"?
Isn't it ironic??

Well, it seems theoretical knowledge does NOT necessarily mean practical wisdom.

Not very inspiring for young people who pay lots of money to gain this knowledge

JMO

 

[jepop]

Yes the PIP dates seems to be either one of those. Still only 10 days before the murder... I'm curious how those 10 days of build up were and what else was going on with BK during that particular time.

Yes !There was alot going on and seems reasonable to speculate there may be a connection between spiral in BK's life and timing of crime. MOO

BBM: I do just want to add though that I don't agree where you say the alleged PIP could be either of those dates. It's clear that NewsWeek misreported the date as the 12th Nov from the original story (Banefield of News Nation). There is no question that Banfield and News Nation reported from unnnamed sources that the alleged PIP date was 2 November, as pointed out in previous post.

 

[al66pine]

BK. Leaving Computer Tower & Firestick in Pullman?

Odd that he left his fire stick and computer tower behind. Maybe to lead his father into believing things were okay>
Dunno. Not even an opinion, really, just a question. IMO>

@10ofRods
Yes, good question. Agreeing, maybe to signal to Dad, all is hunky-dory?

OTOH, some kids (meaning practically anyone pre-retirement age, imo, J/K. Well, mostly J/K) have multiple devices.

Assuming he wrote & maintained most/all of his academic work and "personal/private" data on that particular tower, is it possible he also stored most/all of it in the cloud?
And/or made copies on other hard drive, etc?
And/or scrubbed his data/files from the tower?
Ditto firestick?

So maybe left nothing of much value ---to HIM--- behind in Pullman apt?

Not crystal clear to me. if it was crystal clear to HIM, on heading to PA, that his UW - Pullman student & TA days were over.

Just mulling it over, IDK.

 

[wary]

Do you have a link for the security job being paid? Because I think he started as a kind of volunteer/intern (supported by his dad, who was doing the same work?) Was he actually paid?

Thanks for the pizza restaurant citation. I'll look it up. I wonder how long that lasted.

So, he goes from pizza restaurant (beginner worker?) to TA at a fairly major university? Fascinating.

IMO.

Okay, I've searched and cannot find anything about Bryan working at a pizza place. So - do you have a link? I too get tired having to look them up, but, well, those are the rules. I was told it was not okay to post and ask others to go find a link - it's probably late where you are, as it is where I am, so no hurry.

But I'd love to see who said he worked at a pizza place. AFAIK, neither he nor his family have revealed that. All I see when I google "BK pizza restaurant employee" is that he ate at a pizza restaurant. If he did work - when was it? High school or community college or DeSales period? Surely it wasn't in Pullman?

TIA.

IMO.

Part-time security guard at his old high school. Not the most amazing job in the world, but I haven’t heard any hint that it was an ‘unpaid intern’ type of job.

However, I’m surprised that we haven’t heard a better timeline of his life, as far as I know. I’d have thought that by now, there’d have been a fairly clear timeline for his schooling and jobs, and as far as I know, there isn’t a public one, at least.

Bryan Kohberger devoted his life to studying crime. The Idaho murders have turned the tables

IDAHO MURDERS: Bryan Kohberger became a household name upon his 30 December arrest in Pennsylvania for the killings of four University of Idaho students. People from his past - though shocked - build a picture of a bullied loner who could be aggressive; fellow students from his time in Idaho...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[DetRavioli]

Is NewsNation a verified source here? If not, Mods, please feel free to remove...

Source: Idaho victim had Bluetooth speaker in her room

Could a Bluetooth speaker provide an additional key piece of evidence in the Idaho quadruple murders case?

www.newsnationnow.com

If they are a verified source it seems like they've turned into a gossip/rumor clearning house. As this bluetooth device thing has been floating around about a month before Kaylee's dad made the wifi claims.]

Re: NewsNation. I trust Brian Entin. But Ashley Banfield (whom I used to adore) is devolving into the next Nancy Grace, imo.

 

[Zella]

However, I’m surprised that we haven’t heard a better timeline of his life, as far as I know. I’d have thought that by now, there’d have been a fairly clear timeline for his schooling and jobs, and as far as I know, there isn’t a public one, at least.

I feel like the general timeline of his higher education and high school education have been pretty concrete actually. He graduated from high school in 2013 (which seems on time for his age) and he seems to have completed his previous degrees all in a relatively timely fashion once he commenced them: AA in 2018, BA in 2020, MA in 2022.

There is an apparent gap between high school and college starting, but I don't really find that surprising considering what was reported about his heroin usage.

Job history does seem spottier and harder to nail down, but again it wouldn't surprise me if that didn't tie in with his earlier drug issues.

MOO