Fair enough. On the whole I think our judicial system is a relic from before the creation of universal education. Without the benefit of anything resembling scientific study, I feel too much info is withheld from jurors. A jury today is no longer composed of 12 rubes gathered at the local barbershop.
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
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Fair enough. On the whole I think our judicial system is a relic from before the creation of universal education. Without the benefit of anything resembling scientific study, I feel too much info is withheld from jurors. A jury today is no longer composed of 12 rubes gathered at the local barbershop.
I agree with you that the source of a juror's knowledge bears investigation.
But I would not call a juror whose knowledge of a case came primarily from rumor and speculation "well-informed".
You may well be right, but I'm not sure. A lot of us interact with the world to a great degree through electronics, which make things from far away seem very near. (Look at the almost universal American response to the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9/11, even among people who had never been to NYC.)
Been since I can't be here and also in Moscow, ID, I admit I have no accurate measure of how I would feel if I were there.
You may well be right, but I think the little evidence we have could equally indicate MM was the target and, if KG was cut more often it was only because she was awake and resisting.
SG made his remarks about "prior connection" in the first week after the killings (IIRC), weeks before even LE had identified BK as a suspect. I think someone in LE was making assumptions based on the conditions in which the victims were found, and passing that assumption on to the father.
ETA: There seem to be some later remarks from SG as well, which I hadn't seen when I wrote the above. As I wrote at the time: [CGray123 "may well be right".]
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But that's the thing. How would they know in a very short time in which to base a decision? Who would know? And if not rumor and speculation, what about mainstream media? They don't always have facts either. It seems that sometimes even they get their info from 'sources' who could be spreading rumor and speculation, misinterpretation, misrepresentations, one-sided views, etc.
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If the families want to speak, to the press, write, blog or otherwise, they should be allowed to:
" New to the Cases of Interest Idaho Courts website. All the gag order documents:
Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest
* 02/06/2023 Petition for Writ of Mandamus or Writ of Prohibition
* 02/06/2023 Brief in Support of Petition
" New to the Cases of Interest Idaho Courts website. All the gag order documents:
Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest
The Associated Press v. Second Judicial District
Supreme Court - 50482-2023* 02/06/2023 Petition for Writ of Mandamus or Writ of Prohibition
* 02/06/2023 Brief in Support of Petition
- 02/06/2023 Declaration of Wendy J. Olson
- 02/07/2023 Notice of Filing
- 02/08/2023 Order Conditionally Dismissing Petition for a Writ of Mandamus or a Writ of Prohibition
- 02/14/2023 Petition for a Writ of Mandamus and Writ of Prohibition
- 02/14/2023 Brief in Support of Petition
- 02/14/2023 Declaration of Wendy Olson
- 02/16/2023 Errata
- 02/17/2023 Notice of Appearance
- 02/17/2023 Petition to Intervene as Real Party in Interest
- 02/17/2023 Memorandum in Support
- 02/17/2023 Order Re: Petition for a Writ of Mandamus or a Writ of Prohibition
- 02/17/2023 Verified Petition for Leave to Intervene by State of Idaho Supreme Court
- 02/17/2023 Memorandum in Support
- 02/20/2023 Notice of Non-opposition to Petitions to Intervene"
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Additional report from Banfield tonight that BK was following both Maddie and Kaylee on Instagram and had liked a couple of Kaylee's photos and every single one of Maddie's.
"Sources close to the investigation" also said that the female victim that was featured on BK's phone is the same person he reached out to on social media. The photos were not taken by BK but were downloaded from victim's Instagram.
"Sources close to the investigation" also said that the female victim that was featured on BK's phone is the same person he reached out to on social media. The photos were not taken by BK but were downloaded from victim's Instagram.
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This makes me so sad. I remember one of the parents talking about how their daughter was very aware of her surroundings, cautious about her personal safety, etc., and I'm sure that's true. I'm also sure that most of us could be watched by a creeper and not realize it. But I think we've really failed to educate the younger generations about recognizing and acting on dangers related to social media and other things.
For example, someone you don't know or interact with liking ALL your instagram posts is a red flag, but I'm sure most people would just be looking at how many people liked their post as opposed to *who* was liking all their posts. And it still appalls me that so many people had the code to that door. Even after what has happened, I'll bet there are a shocking number of college students living in similar circumstances right this minute.
No one thinks a monster is watching them and most of us are right. But being wrong carries a terrible cost.
Montecore1
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I sure hope the judge removes the Gag Order soon and some real info comes out, we have reached an all time low in topics with...who paid for BCK's tummy tuck and if a decade ago his parents may have filed for bankruptcy LOL
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People are infatuated with getting "likes".
We are not innocent either. Even we as posters here sometimes count the "success" of our posts based on the number of likes.
Is is somewhat reassuring that the number of people physically targeted by creepers on SM is extremely low... almost zero statistically that you would be attacked based on someone seeing you on SM.
There are much greater threats physically around us to keep our eyes open to that are more important. You can't live in a cocoon all the time. Gotta live you life. Just my opinion.
Didn't this rumor circulate quite awhile ago? I think at the time many posters questioned the information as to whether or not it was BK on social media, IIRC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you for this! The media's brief acknowledges there is currently no Idaho Constitutional standard and that cases from other jurisdictions offer conflicting opinions. It also recognizes that the Idaho Supreme Court could use its discretion not to decide the issue. Petitions for extraordinary writs are rarely granted, and it seems obvious that the circumstances of this case - a small jurisdiction dealing with a serious case in which the national public has taken a great interest - are different from the circumstances and community dynamics of a larger city, and that a one size fits all rule could do great harm to the justice system in such small communities - effectively forcing them to outsource justice to big cities whenever the press decides to cover cases like this.
The press made similar arguments for the existence of a Constitutional right to media access to court records in the 2018 Colorado case of In re Colorado v. Sir Mario Owens. The Colorado Supreme Court didn't bite:
"... (W)e have never recognized any such constitutional right—whether under the First Amendment or Article II, section 10 of the Colorado Constitution. Petitioner’s near-exclusive reliance on this court’s opinion in Wingfield is misplaced. In Wingfield, we analyzed a statutory prohibition against the inspection of court records in pending cases by non-parties. See, 410 P.2d at 512. We concluded that while no “absolute right to examine” court records exists, inspection may be permitted “at the discretion of the court.” Id.at 513. Contrary to Petitioner’s assertion, this court did not hold in Wingfield that limiting access to court records violates the First Amendment. See, id. We decline to do so now in the absence of any indication from the nation’s high court that access to all criminal justice records is a constitutionally guaranteed right belonging to the public at large.
We also see no compelling reason to interpret our state constitution as guaranteeing such a sweeping—and previously unrecognized—right of unfettered access to criminal justice records. On the contrary, such a ruling would do violence to the comprehensive open records laws and administrative procedures currently in place—including, but not limited to, the Colorado Criminal Justice Records Act, §§24-72-301 to -309, C.R.S. (2017)—that are predicated upon the absence of a constitutionally guaranteed right of access to criminal justice records."
The media petitioned the SCOTUS for review of this decision. The petition was denied. There is no constitutional right of access to public records, either in the United States or Colorado. The Idaho Supreme Court may follow Colorado's example.
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Murphy has his own Instagram!
Idaho victim Kaylee's dog Murphy gets his own Instagram account
The account featuring sweet images of the goldendoodle appeared on Tuesday, and within a day had garnered more than 53,000 followers and scores of comments expressing sympathy.
What solution do you want me to offer you? The world is an imperfect place, and to err is human. That's why they conduct voir dire, to probe for what jurors think they know and where they got their info.
As is often said of our criminal justice system, it's the worst possible method... except for all the other methods. IME I think it works more often than not when victims and defendants are white. I'm not as confident about how defendants of color are treated, but important people are working to improve things in that regard as well.
In my personal experience (two trials black-on-black crime, one trial Latino-on-Latino) the juries worked quite well and there was no obvious distinction during deliberations between "racial minority" jurors (of which there were 4-6 on each panel) and white jurors.
If this report is true, that "exhoneration" which BK was said to be eagerly anticipating, must be fading into the distance.
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Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I believe it to be the source that People (and maybe Banfield) are using. Mentions that two of Bryan's friends/acquaintances died of overdoses, much else:
There's a mention of him working at a pizza parlor in 2013 and 2014,
Gives his reasons for using drugs:
Confirms he lived at home throughout college, so moving to Washington was his first attempt to launch.
Kevin Fixler is the journalist and it was published yesterday, Feb. 22. Has links and way more information than what I just excerpted.
Our excellent @gremlin444 had already summarized parts of the article here:
www.websleuths.com
There's a mention of him working at a pizza parlor in 2013 and 2014,
Gives his reasons for using drugs:
Confirms he lived at home throughout college, so moving to Washington was his first attempt to launch.
Kevin Fixler is the journalist and it was published yesterday, Feb. 22. Has links and way more information than what I just excerpted.
Our excellent @gremlin444 had already summarized parts of the article here:
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
Can you refresh my memory? Was it used in a formal document? I thought it was just a quote from an anonymous source, used in a news report. I must have missed something. :) You're correct, it was in a People Magazine article supposedly quoting an unnamed source who was speculatively LE. So...
www.websleuths.com
rsd1200
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I've always thought he and BK were the same individual. No proof, but it sure is odd.
rsd1200
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A lot of their "sources say" releases, I've already read about either on the WS forum, or just digging around on my own. I have a feeling that we are at a lull in news for this case, and they are bringing out things that maybe folks missed in the case, early on, for current fodder.Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I believe it to be the source that People (and maybe Banfield) are using. Mentions that two of Bryan's friends/acquaintances died of overdoses, much else:
There's a mention of him working at a pizza parlor in 2013 and 2014,
Gives his reasons for using drugs:
Confirms he lived at home throughout college, so moving to Washington was his first attempt to launch.
Kevin Fixler is the journalist and it was published yesterday, Feb. 22. Has links and way more information than what I just excerpted.
Our excellent @gremlin444 had already summarized parts of the article here:
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
Can you refresh my memory? Was it used in a formal document? I thought it was just a quote from an anonymous source, used in a news report. I must have missed something. :) You're correct, it was in a People Magazine article supposedly quoting an unnamed source who was speculatively LE. So...
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At first glance this does seem super creepy, and possibly evidence of obsession.
However if Poppa and BK are in fact the same person, but he made this the cover page just before his arrest, then they were already murdered.
I would find it much more telling if he had posted these photos PRIOR to their deaths. That IMO would be more evidentiary of an ongoing obsession.
I think I’ve seen many examples of people who displayed such pictures AFTER the murders as a kind of tribute page to the victims.
On the other hand, I don’t see any “tribute” to Ethan, so it could perhaps be incriminating as displaying a fascination with one or more of the girls.
jmo
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