4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[CSIDreamer]

The accomplice angle is being pushed by an especially dark website, with fake sources and an agenda to muck up this case. IMO

Not saying that’s the intention here. But be careful where you get your info folks.

I didn't even know there is an accomplice angle being pushed. You be careful what you get mixed up in.

 

[Nila Aella]

Why so? Isn't it clear they were all attacked within a 20-minute time span?

If it took a short time longer for some to bleed out, I doubt the coroner could tell when s/he got the bodies the following day. I don't think body temps, etc., are that precise as indicators!

If it took a long time--a few to several or more hours--for one or more to die, what would that tell us? Would it change the times of attack in any way?

I'm honestly interested in your thinking on this.

Mainly because I am interested in the forensic aspect of cases and TOD is an important determination in any homicide case. Right now, the coroner's TOD determination is not clear. MOO

After 2AM: Nov 17

"It would have been early in the morning, sometime after 2 a.m., but still during the night," Mabbutt said Coroner offers new details about fatal slaying of 4 U of Idaho students after preliminary autopsies

TOD was late at night or early morning: Nov 18

"It was late at night, or early in the morning, so it seems likely that maybe they were sleeping," Mabbutt told the outlet. University of Idaho Students Killed in Bed, Coroner Says: 'Maybe They Were Sleeping'

"Officials" TOD 3 or 4AM: Dec 1

The murders likely took place around 3 a.m. or 4 a.m., according to officials. Idaho murders: What we know and what's still a mystery

TOD at 4-4:25 per the PCA. Dec 29

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

I am aware that as the investigation proceeds, more detailed timeline information comes in. Without knowing the coroner's TOD and how it was determined, there is no way to know if it fits the timeline neatly or if it would affect the timeline/POI(s)/suspect(s) in any way. MOO

But also because:
The white car on Taylor (2:45-3:15)
We still have little information about what occurred between 1:45 and 4:00AM.
OPs have mentioned a theory of two different entries into the house. First on the third floor and second coming back for the sheath and encountering Ethan and Xana. I keep an opened mind to that possibility. JMO

 

[Nova]

Mainly because I am interested in the forensic aspect of cases and TOD is an important determination in any homicide case. Right now, the coroner's TOD determination is not clear. MOO....

Of course. Got it.

My big-city-bias is no doubt showing, but I think the ones we want to hear from are the MEs in Pullman who actually did the autopsies. I don't really understand this defense counselor/elected coroner role and what knowledge she brings to the mix. Nothing against her personally, of course; I know nothing about the Moscow coroner except she isn't a medical doctor, IIRC.

 

[Boxer]

I know you're not the only poster here who is pondering the possibility of an accomplice. I haven't seen any evidence that suggests a second assailant to me, but that may just be a failure of imagination on my part.

What are you thinking? Did they drive together, and if so, how did the second killer not show up on security footage? Did they drive separately, and, if so, how did they coordinate their arrivals with BK's phone turned off?

We know there were two victims on the top floor and two victims plus a witness on the middle floor. Do you envision there being room for two attackers in the same spaces at the same time, or is there some way an accomplice might have participated without entering the murder house?

MOO I think he acted alone.
I didn’t mean a physical accomplice, just there may be an online relationship with some who encouraged him to “take action.”MOO think this less as the more of the mess he made of his PhD program comes out.

 

[Nova]

I didn't even know there is an accomplice angle being pushed. You be careful what you get mixed up in.

A couple of posters have referred to the possibility in the past 24 hours. It was a mildly surprising, new angle to me and so I asked what they were thinking.

That's all. Nobody, as far as I know, is claiming to have a WS-approved report accusing anyone but BK of the murders.

 

[Nila Aella]

Of course. Got it.

My big-city-bias is no doubt showing, but I think the ones we want to hear from are the MEs in Pullman who actually did the autopsies. I don't really understand this defense counselor/elected coroner role and what knowledge she brings to the mix. Nothing against her personally, of course; I know nothing about the Moscow coroner except she isn't a medical doctor, IIRC.

Absolutely agree! The coroner estimated TOD determination on site and the ME autopsy results.

edit: And maybe there was a forensic pathologist involved since the fbi was called in early on?
EBM JMO

 

[Sundog]

I don't think anyone here is saying there had to have been an accomplice or anyone here has seen evidence of one. We're just speculating. In my case, I was speculating based on the line that the documents contain statements or facts that may endanger the life of an individual. DM as witness is already out in the open, so what else is there? And with BK behind bars, how would it endanger the life of an individual? Due to public sleuthers, maybe. But maybe there's someone else out there, maybe someone who didn't participate in the murders but found out after the fact or maybe there's someone BK had confided in before committing the murders. I don't know, just speculation.

Bottom line is, there's a lot we don't know and I think we're all going to be somewhat surprised when all the evidence is revealed. MOO.

Agree with all of the above. Also, IIRC, LE indicated that they were not able to identify the driver of the white Elantra. And then there is BK's question upon arrest: "Was anyone else arrested?" or something similar to that. Of course, BK could have been setting this up to create some doubt, which is highly likely, but I am sure the defense attorney will work with all of this, and that she doesn't need to access anything from the dark side of the internet. She will be able to work with the evidence of the case that now exists - both what we know and what we don't know - but she knows as a result of discovery or her own team's investigation.

 

[CGray123]

“Jury View” of Premises in ID. Conducted in Silence?

snipped for focus @Nova Thanks for your response. Agreeing, imo & ime, that jury views are conducted in silence.

I think you understood that my earlier post was saying ---
A jury view of the house would not be conducted the way that one or more posters theorized--- the prosecutor or def. atty could stand there at the house w jury present and say: Look at this doorway/hall/room/what-ev, which shows yadda yadda.

Perhaps the first sentence* of my earlier post referring to fictitious trials should have explicitly said --- that kind of stuff is (virtually always) TV FICTION.

A jury view of house in this ID. case would also be conducted in silence, per statute quoted & linked in my earlier post.* Well, now, looks like no house will be intact for jury to view.
Imo jmo
________________________________________
* 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73
** ICA 19-2124, page 5 of 8 at link.
"VIEW OF PREMISES BY JURY....and the sheriff must be sworn to suffer no person to speak or communicate with the jury, nor to do so himself, on any subject connected with the trial..." sbm

Section 19-2124 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

With virtual reality as lifelike as it is, I wonder if the parties could jointly create a virtual reality tour, with sites of evidence like the shoe print marked and highlighted. Does anyone know if this has been done effectively?

 

[Boxer]

Of course. Got it.

My big-city-bias is no doubt showing, but I think the ones we want to hear from are the MEs in Pullman who actually did the autopsies. I don't really understand this defense counselor/elected coroner role and what knowledge she brings to the mix. Nothing against her personally, of course; I know nothing about the Moscow coroner except she isn't a medical doctor, IIRC.

Yes, I was surprised in the Tammy Daybell case to find out that in Idaho coroners don’t have to be doctors. Assume that this is because rural areas have few doctors.
It’s similar to Pennsylvaniathe where elected district judges don’t need to be lawyers, they take a two day training.

 

[Nova]

MOO I think he acted alone.
I didn’t mean a physical accomplice, just there may be an online relationship with some who encouraged him to “take action.”MOO think this less as the more of the mess he made of his PhD program comes out.

That makes more sense to me, Boxer. I'm not putting down anybody's theory, I'm just thinking that the speed with which 4 people were dispatched with a knife argues against a second attacker. Especially considering that two of the four victims weren't even residents of the house and there was no way to know for sure that they would be present.

Two attackers in close quarters would, I presume, require some collaboration and take more time than the brief period the killer spent in the house.

 

[Sundog]

Of course. Got it.

My big-city-bias is no doubt showing, but I think the ones we want to hear from are the MEs in Pullman who actually did the autopsies. I don't really understand this defense counselor/elected coroner role and what knowledge she brings to the mix. Nothing against her personally, of course; I know nothing about the Moscow coroner except she isn't a medical doctor, IIRC.

The coroner is a medical professional, she had a long career as a nurse before going back to school and getting a law degree.

Also, according to the CDC, only 4 states require that a coroner be a physician - the four states are Kansas, Louisiana, Minnesota and Ohio.

CDC - Coroner Training Requirements - Coroner/Medical Examiner Laws - Public Health Law

Explore a map that depicts the training requirements for coroners.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Boxer]

Agree with all of the above. Also, IIRC, LE indicated that they were not able to identify the driver of the white Elantra. And then there is BK's question upon arrest: "Was anyone else arrested?" or something similar to that. Of course, BK could have been setting this up to create some doubt, which is highly likely, but I am sure the defense attorney will work with all of this, and that she doesn't need to access anything from the dark side of the internet. She will be able to work with the evidence of the case that now exists - both what we know and what we don't know - but she knows as a result of discovery or her own team's investigation.

MOO he meant his father whom he used.

 

[Sundog]

MOO he meant his father whom he used.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Boxer]

Maybe, maybe not.

MOO He may have meant someone else but he was standing in his parents house which was entered as aggressively as possible, flash banged, doors and windows broken open.

 

[acutename]

MOO he meant his father whom he used.

I always thought he meant any other white Elantras drivers.
It is a pretty cheeky Q but I somehow do not think he was being
strategic asking it- I think he was wondering how or why he was selected, IMO.

 

[Dotta]

MOO He may have meant someone else but he was standing in his parents house which was entered as aggressively as possible, flash banged, doors and windows broken open.

Maybe he just wondered if he was the only suspect in this case.
But I doubt he meant his father.
JMO

 

[Charlot123]

MOO I think he acted alone.
I didn’t mean a physical accomplice, just there may be an online relationship with some who encouraged him to “take action.”MOO think this less as the more of the mess he made of his PhD program comes out.

He could act alone but he is not unlike Dylan Klebold, so he could have had his Eric as well.

 

[Boxer]

Maybe he just wondered if he was the only suspect in this case.
But I doubt he meant his father.
JMO

His father (MOO unwittingly) aided him in fleeing Idaho. If his father had inkling his son was involved in murder, that would be the crime of ‘accessory after the fact’

The physical act of leaving Idaho with his son was potentially a criminal act, only the fathers state of kind, being unsuspecting makes it not a crime.

BK would be aware of that and wonder if the police suspected his father of knowingly helping him leave Idaho.

 

[iamshadow21]

His father (MOO unwittingly) aided him in fleeing Idaho. If his father had inkling his son was involved in murder, that would be the crime of ‘accessory after the fact’

The physical act of leaving Idaho with his son was potentially a criminal act, only the fathers state of kind, being unsuspecting makes it not a crime.

Yeah, as far as we know, the father was never arrested, but I'll bet he in particular spent a not small number of hours being grilled about every aspect of that crosscountry trip, and everything that came before and after it. Parents have been accessories after the fact in a significant number of cases before, and they'd want to be absolutely sure that he a) wasn't knowingly involved in helping his son flee a major crime, and b) was being completely truthful in his answers. I think that he was both unknowing and truthful. Unless something comes out that changes the landscape of this crime, I believe BK's family are innocent of any guilty knowledge.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Yeah, as far as we know, the father was never arrested, but I'll bet he in particular spent a not small number of hours being grilled about every aspect of that crosscountry trip, and everything that came before and after it. Parents have been accessories after the fact in a significant number of cases before, and they'd want to be absolutely sure that he a) wasn't knowingly involved in helping his son flee a major crime, and b) was being completely truthful in his answers. I think that he was both unknowing and truthful. Unless something comes out that changes the landscape of this crime, I believe BK's family are innocent of any guilty knowledge.

MOO

Agree, but to me it explains “was anyone else arrested?” belatedly worrying about the jeopardy he put his family in.