4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 73

[DeDee]

No way to access 3rd floor sliding door according to this photo of it. BK was seen heading for the 2nd floor sliding door by the witness. Apparently he was leaving through the 2nd floor sliding door and there is easy ground access so he likely entered this way.

Former Idaho prosecutor who visited house where students were murdered reveals killer's possible path

A former Idaho lieutenant governor and attorney general who has been inside the home where four students attending the University of Idaho were found dead says that the suspect likely entered through the back of the house.

www.foxnews.com

Yes, the witness did state, according to the PCAA, that the bushy eyebrow person walked towards the kitchen slider.

This image shows more of the other side where the bushes, trees, and foliage was growing along the embankment. The balcony wraps around to the side of the house.

I'm not solid on this theory yet but do like entertaining it as a possible entry point. Shimmy up the white post and climb over the balcony. May be a tree branch to help boost up ... but Murphy.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If we run with the theory for a second that BK entered the home with only the intent to sexually assault a single third floor victim via knifepoint, and is surprised by a second third floor roommate who calls out, "Someone's here", which causes an audible commotion from the second floor, then:

A) This could provide some degree of motive imo for the suspect to commit multiple homicides.
B) It might might be worth checking unsolved sexual assault history (especially via knifepoint) within the logitical range of BK's adult dwellings/workplaces/universities for patterns.

Not sure how much I personally believe the intention-of-sexual-assault theory, but like everything else, it's worth pondering.

The more I think about this theory the more it makes sense (to me) as it would be pretty big and crazy stuff to target an entire household of people for murder when one isn't quite sure who is present inside the house or not and it's also known as a party house. Plus then also leave one known person and whomsoever is downstairs.

Let's say if BK was targeting M as he had a sexual fixation / obsession / rejection rage and he'd been stalking her and watching the house over time, he would assume she was alone in her room. He may have been unaware K was back staying in the house (with the dog) as she'd only recently moved out and cleared her room.

It would make more sense (to me) that he's a creepy stalker with a very specific motivation and plan that went wayyyyy off beam. Makes zero sense that he set out with the brazen intention of tackling four to six people, or more, plus a dog, or even just two people and a dog. I'll bet he went there with some type of substance intended to overpower / render unconscious.

JMO MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Wow!
That nobody died of heart attack is really lucky.
JMO

Yeah. I don't know why we haven't come up with a more civilized way of getting criminals than by traumatizing anyone within a 3-mile radius. I really feel for anyone else in the home that night. They didn't deserve that.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Also if he went in to try and locate K but never intended to harm M, E, or X... then he's already gone way over and beyond anything he had expected and hence didn't attempt to attack D.

I wonder, if he went in the third floor, if his intention was to target K only and if so, for what? Maybe as a sexual predator and he thought he'd do 'something' with her at knife point? Maybe he had no intention of actually killing anyone at all even!

IMO, the target was Maddie, not Kaylee. Xana and Ethan were likely killed because they were awake. When DM told them to settle down, he may have come downstairs and assumed that was X. MOO

 

[Gemmie]

IMO, the target was Maddie, not Kaylee. Xana and Ethan were likely killed because they were awake. When DM told them to settle down, he may have come downstairs and assumed that was X. MOO

+1

 

[WingsOverTX]

Regarding how many BK "intended" to kill. While he may have focused his obsession on one young woman (I'm not convinced yet), he knew the house was home to multiple people with potential overnight guests.

I believe he wanted to kill as many people as possible that night. You can't enter a home that houses multiple college students thinking, "I'll just rape one and leave." Easy enough to find that kind of victim if that's what he wanted. And very difficult to accomplish in a house like this even in the cover of sleep & darkness.

I think body count was important to him. He might have been surprised by Ethan, but even then BK was prepared to a degree that poor E never had a chance.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Regarding how many BK "intended" to kill. While he may focused his obsession on one young woman (I'm not convinced yet), he knew the house was home to multiple people with potential overnight guests.

I believe he wanted to kill as many people as possible that night. You can't enter a home that houses multiple college students thinking, "I'll just rape one and leave." Easy enough to find that kind of victim if that's what he wanted. And very difficult to accomplish in a house like this even in the cover of darkness.

I think body count was important to him. He might have been surprised by Ethan, but even then BK was prepared to a degree that poor E never had a chance.

JMO

If the killer wanted to kill as many people as possible, there was no reason not to look for the other roommates. I'm sure he knew they existed per social media. I don't think he entered just to rape someone. But I do think he had only one target. Everyone else was in the wrong place at the wrong time. DM and BF are very, very, lucky, especially D.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

But they don't have to respond to reporters. That's what surprised me. While she did mention FERPA, the guidance counselor said more than I would have expected.
JMO

Most schools will give publicly available information to anyone. That involves answering the question "Did this person attend the school?" and "Did they graduate?"

Schools' records systems are obligated to respond to public requests for this information. You don't have to be a reporter. It applies to K-12 and to colleges and universities.

Where I teach (adults), students can opt out of FERPA altogether - and most do, because it makes it possible for them to get more scholarships.

I was quoting another post and my whole point was that he did not specialize in law. He studied under a serial killer expert which is interesting.

He took one class from her. All the rest of his classes were centered around Criminal Justice. You can look up the curriculum at DeSales (or anywhere, it's all publicly available).

And he studied Criminal Justice which is indeed a lot to do with law, procedure and administration of justice. It is indeed law-focused and the most common degree that people interested in being law enforcement might acquire.

He didn't specialize in anything, yet. And WSU's program started as Criminal Justice and has Criminology as a second designation - depending on the doctoral program (so we don't know if he was going to become a "criminologist" (which is a professional designation; one can be hired as one with a number of different degrees).

But law and procedure was part of his curriculum at DeSales. The basics of the criminal justice system were the core of the curriculum. He sought to try to do a Master's on an area of criminal psychology but ended up with no data.

IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMO, the target was Maddie, not Kaylee. Xana and Ethan were likely killed because they were awake. When DM told them to settle down, he may have come downstairs and assumed that was X. MOO

I agree that M was the target.

If he went in K's window then I'd possibly imagine it was K but I'm not persuaded he did. JMO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

as she'd only recently moved out and cleared her room.

Can you link to the bolded part of this assertion please?

I know it was discussed earlier and I had thought the conclusion was that KG's belongings were, for the most part, still in the room.

In other words she may have recently stopped living there but she hadn't yet "moved out."

At a minimum we know there was still a bed with bedding in her room, because her father made reference to it being visible in a photo early on. That photo was publicly available and I remember seeing it either here or in MSM. Though I don't think we know whether the furniture belonged to the tenants or to the house.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

1. Size. 2. Possible wear patterns that would appear in a footprint

At one point, a publication published (then took down - probably via court order) a alleged copy of the latent print. Or so they said, so take with a grain of salt. It was alleged to be the Van's footprint (it was in two major MSM outlets, but again, no link because not available). Still, I think it's likely the print (this was before the gag order) and if definitely showed wear patterns. So, IMO and without any link to show the print, I will say that IF that was the print they certainly do have good evidence about several aspects about the murderer's left foot.

Enough to show whether BK could have worn the shoe - for example, length of each toe seems visible. Height of arch etc. At any rate, such a footprint would definitely help identify the killer.

IMO.

Personally, I do not think he was wearing the flashlight or the gloves when they came into his room to arrest him. It's possible he wasn't asleep, of course, and it's possible he was getting ready to roam around in a place where he needed that flashlight, but it's unlikely. The clothes are probably what he dressed in when they told him to get dressed and they found nothing else of a physical nature in his room.

IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Can you link to the bolded part of this assertion please?

I know it was discussed earlier and I had thought the conclusion was that KG's belongings were, for the most part, still in the room.

In other words she may have recently stopped living there but she hadn't yet "moved out."

At a minimum we know there was still a bed with bedding in her room, because her father made reference to it being visible in a photo early on. That photo was publicly available and I remember seeing it either here or in MSM. Though I don't think we know whether the furniture belonged to the tenants or to the house.

MOO

Oh gosh, going back in time now, long before BK was identified, there was plenty of discussion that the reasons K was in the single bed with M was not just because they're close friends but because K had formally quit the house and cleaned the room. She wasn't going to be returning but had seemingly made a spontaneous plan after buying her new jeep to go visit M.

I think there was even photos of the empty room but cannot prove it or link now, would have to dig around. I recall some of this discussion came up in early days as there were some distasteful and salacious suggestions (not on this site) about why M&K shared the bed that then formed all sorts of theories and explanations. Transpires over time those ideas had no substance whatsoever and it was simply an issue of the room being vacated already.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

At one point, a publication published (then took down - probably via court order) a alleged copy of the latent print. Or so they said, so take with a grain of salt. It was alleged to be the Van's footprint (it was in two major MSM outlets, but again, no link because not available). Still, I think it's likely the print (this was before the gag order) and if definitely showed wear patterns. So, IMO and without any link to show the print, I will say that IF that was the print they certainly do have good evidence about several aspects about the murderer's left foot.

Enough to show whether BK could have worn the shoe - for example, length of each toe seems visible. Height of arch etc. At any rate, such a footprint would definitely help identify the killer.

IMO.

Personally, I do not think he was wearing the flashlight or the gloves when they came into his room to arrest him. It's possible he wasn't asleep, of course, and it's possible he was getting ready to roam around in a place where he needed that flashlight, but it's unlikely. The clothes are probably what he dressed in when they told him to get dressed and they found nothing else of a physical nature in his room.

IMO.

They did say the diamond print was a Van's shoe and I think they have quite high level and accurate intel on all forms of shoe soles so I can't imagine they got it wrong.

I don't think the Nike shoe (or any of the clothing) that BK was arrested in would have been involved in the events as he would surely have the sense to burn them being as he's so forensically aware. Flashlight could be attached to a keyring or something.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I guess it all happened in seconds.
When parents awoke he was already shackled.

But really, how scary

JMO

I thought they broke windows. Before shackling, they had to search him and it's likely he had to get dressed.

Pretty sure the parents noticed the sounds of pounding on the door and, IIRC, at least one broken window. It was definitely scary. LE actually broke the glass in the front door:

Bryan Kohberger's father seen cleaning up mess after SWAT team raid

Michael Kohberger was seen Sunday tidying up the mess from the SWAT team raid in Albrightsville that saw law enforcement officers break open the family's front door to apprehend his son.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think the parents were likely awake from that point onward (and swiftly escorted from the house, just in case, for their own safety).

 

[vls12345]

It doesn't seem odd to me. There's been plenty of talk here about his sleeping patterns, or lack thereof. And 4am-ish is also the time the crimes were committed.

And I apologize for this quote being from the DM:

Kohberger's unidentified downstairs neighbor echoed his strange late-night behaviors <snip>

she always heard Kohberger up late at night since he moved into the complex in August.

'He’s normally a very late-night person, going to the bathroom and vacuuming at 1 or 12 in the morning,' she said.

Idaho 'murderer' neighbors reveal his late-night behavior

Ben Roberts (left) said his former classmate Bryan Kohberger (inset) started showing up to college 'really tired' after the Idaho murders, while neighbors of the suspect said he 'never slept.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Haven't read all the way to the end of this thread, so maybe someone else has said this, but he (BK) may have still been on pacific time, not eastern time. So, for him at 3am or 4am in PA, it would have perhaps still felt like midnight or 1am (not so late, imo, especially for a student/someone in their 20s).

MOO.

ETA: Sorry, I'm now reading further and (of course) see that others have already pointed this out. (Waving hi to my fellow night owls, lol.)

 

[10ofRods]

Oh, that's right, if Murphy was in that room he might create a ruckus. But, what if BK brought a dog bone with him? No, he probably didn't bring a dog bone so he could attack MM.

What's got me perplexed, at the moment, is why would he want to kill a person whom he seems exceeding fond of? Was she mean to him? If so, why haven't we heard about it?

We can be snippy with folks and not mean them any harm but I guess BK couldn't take a rebuff if that is what happened. I'm sure MM would have apologized, if she'd known.

Anyway, I was looking online for the latent print from inside the 1122 House and also the one located on the side of the same house, to no avail. I recall looking at the soles of Vans months ago but there was such a variance in the different models, I gave up so it's good to see there is still work that can be done on those. Does anyone have images of these two shoe prints? Do they appear to be a size 13? That's a long foot!

For most people behind bars, esp. with any sort of sexual offense or intent to commit a sexual offense, they aren't "fond" of the victim; they are obsessed with them or, more likely, just think they should be able to get away with it (in a sick fantasy world they live in).

I think BK went there to kill, though. Why pick an attractive object? Well, the world of video games is filled with making choices like that and yep, people prefer attractive targets. As if they are the main character in a movie.

It's not inconsistent with what you suggest - which is that BK couldn't handle any form of rejection.

<modsnip: If it can't be linked, it can't be discussed>

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Most schools will give publicly available information to anyone. That involves answering the question "Did this person attend the school?" and "Did they graduate?"

Schools' records systems are obligated to respond to public requests for this information. You don't have to be a reporter. It applies to K-12 and to colleges and universities.

Where I teach (adults), students can opt out of FERPA altogether - and most do, because it makes it possible for them to get more scholarships.



He took one class from her. All the rest of his classes were centered around Criminal Justice. You can look up the curriculum at DeSales (or anywhere, it's all publicly available).

And he studied Criminal Justice which is indeed a lot to do with law, procedure and administration of justice. It is indeed law-focused and the most common degree that people interested in being law enforcement might acquire.

He didn't specialize in anything, yet. And WSU's program started as Criminal Justice and has Criminology as a second designation - depending on the doctoral program (so we don't know if he was going to become a "criminologist" (which is a professional designation; one can be hired as one with a number of different degrees).

But law and procedure was part of his curriculum at DeSales. The basics of the criminal justice system were the core of the curriculum. He sought to try to do a Master's on an area of criminal psychology but ended up with no data.

IMO.

My point was that he doesn't come across like a student of law. He made too many stupid mistakes. Some people are surprised a doctoral student in the criminal justice graduate program
made all those amateur decisions.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Oh gosh, going back in time now, long before BK was identified, there was plenty of discussion that the reasons K was in the single bed with M was not just because they're close friends but because K had formally quit the house and cleaned the room. She wasn't going to be returning but had seemingly made a spontaneous plan after buying her new jeep to go visit M.

I think there was even photos of the empty room but cannot prove it or link now, would have to dig around. I recall some of this discussion came up in early days as there were some distasteful and salacious suggestions (not on this site) about why M&K shared the bed that then formed all sorts of theories and explanations. Transpires over time those ideas had no substance whatsoever and it was simply an issue of the room being vacated already.

I'm quite certain the bed and bedding was still there and visible in a photo made public. Let me see if I can find it.

I agree that people were speculating all sorts of reasons why both girls were in the same bed, some reasonable and some offensive, but AFAIK there was nothing conclusive.

My personal opinion is that K went into M's room for some reason relating to the calls they were trying to make to K's ex. Though it also makes sense to me that they were already together in the same room talking prior to those calls, and that had the murders not happened, K would have returned to her own room to sleep. Or at least intended to -- if they were intoxicated as speculated, she could easily have fallen alseep before she meant to, while still in M's room/bed.

MOO for now


ETA: found the photo. If you zoom in, you can see a bed with bedding, and what looks like stacked cardboard boxes, though I suppose that could actually be furniture. The bed is the key thing though.

Photo is cropped by me from this article: Idaho murders: Inside the off-campus house where 4 students were killed

 

[Helechawagirl]

If it was me I'd go out the same way I came in.

I still think he entered thru the back. JMO

 

[Helechawagirl]

I guess it all happened in seconds.
When parents awoke he was already shackled.

But really, how scary

JMO

Yea, I would probably wet myself if that happened to me or have a heart attack. Scary.