4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[Montana Greyback Original]

I don't think he was in Montana on the road trip with his dad (someone prove me wrong if that's incorrect! TY!). Although I suppose he could have gone at some other time. This linked MSM and map from that site is saying about their cross-country trip:

"documents show his car triggered a license plate reader in Loma (CO) on Dec. 13. The route takes the father-and-son duo about 15 hours out of the way.".

the initial hours of the duo's journey would have been treacherous had they taken the most direct route — with whiteout conditions that covered parts of the Northern Plains and Upper Midwest in feet of snow.

"A southern route would put a traveler closer to the system’s warm zone and further away from the effects of wintry impacts," Wulfeck said.

The detour south, according to criminal profiler and psychotherapist John Kelly, is among the least suspicious of Kohberger’s actions following the murders.


View attachment 406856

So if he took the southern route, why did Bryan write a note "from Montana"?

Inside Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's unusually long route home to Pennsylvania

A look inside the long detour in Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's indirect route home to his parents' house in Pennsylvania's Poconos Mountains.

www.foxnews.com

Being born and raised here in Montana I can say that western montana and North Idaho are like a tight knit community, much like us from western montana don't claim anything east of the rockies mountains continental devide as being montana, it's west dakota because eastern montana is nothing but flatland and if it weren't for signage you'd never be able to tell where eastern montana ends and north dakota begins.

now that being said, I strongly believe the reason the indirect route was taken is because the sensible direct route would have taken them directly through 4 out of the top 5 most populated cities In the state, Billings (109,550), Missoula (74,400), Great Falls (58,700), Bozeman (48,500), Butte (34,300) and montanas top colleges and universities are where they would have to go through at a time that not only college students were on edge in search of the white elantra but everybody was.

We as montanians are a very rural nothing major happens kind of place and love it. In 1983 my grandparents were in the labor union and worked road construction as flaggers and pilot car drivers. My grandparents became friends with a man who had just moved from Iowa with his family to Naples Idaho where my grandparents were working at the time chip sealing the highway between Naples and Bonners ferry Idaho. Even after the job was finished my grandparents remained friends with the man and his family and in 1992 I was 7 at the time and I rember my grandmother getting a call and crying hysterically, their friends randy and Vicki's son Sammy was killed and the seige at ruby ridge had begun. Our families are still very close but not in touch as often since randy past last may but Sara has always been a private person. Ever since then anything significant in Idaho had a ripple effect us in Montana, we look out for one another and had BK & his dad traveled the most direct route to Philadelphia they most certainly had eyes on what was happening and developing. Our amber alerts are very successful. being extra diligent and aware to our surroundings is something I've been pro active in practice but when news of that white elantra hit I scoured every Craigslist of an elantra being sold white in color or calling sellers to see if the Vin # had a matching paint code.

 

[U.N. Known]

Both of these posts argue that the officer's statement of a "single source of male DNA (suspect's profile)" does not preclude that there was a mixture and/or more DNA that didn't match the suspect. The affidavit does not include a lab report and it is written in plain English and I think it should be taken at face value. The officer knows the lab report is not going to be kept secret and any misleading language or deliberate failure to disclose other possible suspect DNA in the warrant application, elimination of other possible suspects, etc., could cause great harm to the case with a claim of a rush to judgment. I would think the judge that read the affidavit also thought it meant that only BK's DNA was found on the snap.

"Based on the above information, I am requesting an arrest warrant be issued for Bryan C. Kohberger"

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

Whether or not there was other DNA was on the sheath (victim or unknown) is immaterial to this affidavit. Officer Payne is requesting a warrant for one person, Bryan Kohberger, so all of the information outlined on the PCA pertains to the person he wants to arrest. That does not mean that there wasn't other, unknown DNA found. If there was more present, they would/will mention that when they write the PCA for that suspect.

 

[U.N. Known]

More from the article:
But we’re told these actions speak for themselves.
Mancuso says, "It could very explain some of the other aspects of the case from Idaho, some of the lengths that a person would go to to avoid having their DNA left behind when they know or should’ve known that there was an investigation underway."

 I think he feared the sheath gave him away. Little did he know, no amount of glove wearing or sorting of trash in the wee hours would protect him.

Another documentation of his night owl behavior. When did BK sleep? How long-term was his diurnal pattern? It's unusual unless he is an insomniac.

MOO

There are a lot of people who are night owls. I've been up at 1:30 the past two nights. If I don't have to get up early, I often stay up late. Something that others have mentioned is the time change. There is a 3 hours difference between WA and PA. If he didn't have a reason to be up early, he may not have changed his general wake/sleep pattern.

 

[CGray123]

What would you consider "appropriate" handling of the COI matter?

As I understand it, the only relevant issue is whether the defendant waived any claim of conflict. Apparently, BK did so.

I know the media pushed Xana's mom to complain about AT's supposed "betrayal", but there is no constitutional right to the free lawyer of your choosing. [ETA X's mom has my complete sympathy; I am not mocking her for needing a public defender. In her shoes, I would need a "free lawyer", too.]

Could BK after a conviction claim that his waiver of COI had been manipulated? Probably; appellants claim all sorts of things. Nearly all convicted murderers claim some sort of incompetence of counsel--often with the approval and aid of the lawyer being called incompetent! It remains rare that such appeals succeed.

BBM. There is another issue. AT made factual statements as an officer of the court (the professional equivalent to being under oath) that she was never assigned to represent CK and never met or advised her - that her name is on the PD's entry of appearance solely because she is the head of the local office.

There is no factual basis for any claim that COI remains an issue in this case, IMO, or that BK could have a COI related issue for appeal if he is convicted. We have no reason to question or doubt the truth of what AT has said. I will challenge unwarranted assumptions, irrational statements, and fallacious reasoning as much as anyone here, but we have no reason other than cynicism to doubt AT's statements to the court.

MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

MSN

If the DP is going to have any chance of being an effective tool, Idaho is going to have to figure out how to actually execute people.

 

[SRWCF]

MSN

If the DP is going to have any chance of being an effective tool, Idaho is going to have to figure out how to actually execute people.

I live in Idaho and this is what's currently happening here to mitigate this issue:

Bill to reinstate executions by firing squad moves to House floor

Rep. Bruce Skaug, R-Nampa, said that Idaho can't obtain lethal drugs so the only other method is by firing squad.

www.ktvb.com

 

[agilbe]

I was looking up to see if Idaho uses any other method of execution and found this. It has a lot of different information about the death penalty with regards to each state.
Death Penalty Information Center

 

[maskedwoman]

Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

The Monroe County District Attorney’s office sheds light on the Idaho murder suspect’s arrest after a search warrant is released. We’re learning more about the investigation of the Chestnuthill...

www.brctv13.com

That is beyond weird and creepy. ::shudder:: I wonder if he realized he was being surveilled, or suspected it, due to the traffic stops? I also wonder if his parents ever noticed/questioned anything odd about the trash or if his natural nocturnal habits managed to keep it hidden from his parents. I mean, you would think they would eventually notice the trash always looked rifled through, or that he never seemed to add to the amount of trash in the house.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

No one said there WASN'T more DNA, though. That is what some people are missing. No one said the ONLY DNA that belonged to BK was what was found on the sheath snap.

Perhaps the sheath snap was the only non mixed DNA. Perhaps there is more and no one needs to mention it since the snap DNA was enough for probable cause. Maybe there was DNA all over and that is being held back.

After all, we know 4 people were stabbed. But we don't know where, or if they died of the stabs (immediately) or exsanguination( not immediately) or how many wounds or what order. That information hasn't been released by LE. Same with DNA, IMO.

Imagine a knife sheath next to a stab victim or victims on a bed that belonged to one of them. How much of THEIR DNA was likely on the knife sheath and no one has said anything about that.

I seriously doubt he left no DNA except for what they found on the back side of the snap. I just think that part was uncontaminated with any other DNA so a solid choice for a match. MOO.

Thank you for this explanation, I fully understand this now. I misunderstood the meaning of news reports and was slightly baffled as to how or why someone had been so careful and yet so careless and what that 'meant' (if anything). However, I completely get it now.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That is beyond weird and creepy. ::shudder:: I wonder if he realized he was being surveilled, or suspected it, due to the traffic stops? I also wonder if his parents ever noticed/questioned anything odd about the trash or if his natural nocturnal habits managed to keep it hidden from his parents. I mean, you would think they would eventually notice the trash always looked rifled through, or that he never seemed to add to the amount of trash in the house.

I imagine they'd been monitoring his movements and patterns of behaviour using heat detection and other pretty high end surveillance for ages and were hoping to grab him alone as he left the house with trash. Just total speculation here but maybe he was disposing of drug use detritus or other some other types of litter he didn't want his parents to realise were generated by him.

 

[Sundog]

Monroe County First Assistant Michael Mancuso says, "Mr. Kohberger was found awake in the kitchen area dresssd in shorts and a shirt a wearing latex medical type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into a separate zip lock baggies."

Monroe County Officials Share New Details About Idaho Murder Suspect's Arrest

The Monroe County District Attorney’s office sheds light on the Idaho murder suspect’s arrest after a search warrant is released. We’re learning more about the investigation of the Chestnuthill...

www.brctv13.com

This article says the raid at BK's parents' home was just before 1:30 a.m. I thought the raid was much later in the morning. This doesn't seem that late for a young person to be up, particularly on a Friday night during the winter holidays.

 

[NCWatcher]

More from the article:
But we’re told these actions speak for themselves.
Mancuso says, "It could very explain some of the other aspects of the case from Idaho, some of the lengths that a person would go to to avoid having their DNA left behind when they know or should’ve known that there was an investigation underway."

 I think he feared the sheath gave him away. Little did he know, no amount of glove wearing or sorting of trash in the wee hours would protect him.

Another documentation of his night owl behavior. When did BK sleep? How long-term was his diurnal pattern? It's unusual unless he is an insomniac.

MOO

But the raid was at 1:30 am Pennsylvania time (EST) That's not all that late anyway, plus his body may have stayed on west coast time (PST) So to BK it may have seemed like 10:30pm or so. And too grad students tend to have wonky sleep schedules.. You can't very well pull all-nighters (sometimes needed IME) if one's usual bedtime has to be 10pm.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong but I really think too much has been made over BK's sleep patterns in various threads.
JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

I live in Idaho and this is what's currently happening here to mitigate this issue:

Bill to reinstate executions by firing squad moves to House floor

Rep. Bruce Skaug, R-Nampa, said that Idaho can't obtain lethal drugs so the only other method is by firing squad.

www.ktvb.com

It would remain to be seen whether this would be an option for BK if he is found guilty and sentenced to death, since this method was not authorized at the time of his crime.

I have not seen in the articles what drugs Idaho has not been able to procure. Texas bypassed the stonewalling of drug availability by switching to a massive dose of pentobarbital which it obtains from compounding pharmacies. I believe the federal government followed suit. So I don't know why other states like Idaho don't do the same.

 

[U.N. Known]

That is beyond weird and creepy. ::shudder:: I wonder if he realized he was being surveilled, or suspected it, due to the traffic stops? I also wonder if his parents ever noticed/questioned anything odd about the trash or if his natural nocturnal habits managed to keep it hidden from his parents. I mean, you would think they would eventually notice the trash always looked rifled through, or that he never seemed to add to the amount of trash in the house.

Yes, the trash separating seems odd, but as far as we know, that's something he's done for some time. His parents would know that. They'd also know that he's a night owl and/or has insomnia, if he does. If he was taking out the trash, they may not notice if it was more or less than usual.

I also doubt that he knew anyone was watching him. He didn't seem any more disturbed than the average person would during the traffic stops and he was in plain sight in PA.

I get the impression from hearing his dad on the bodycam, that they were just happy to have their only son home, especially if that was the longest they'd gone without seeing him daily.

 

[ktm44]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Sundog]

It would remain to be seen whether this would be an option for BK if he is found guilty and sentenced to death, since this method was not authorized at the time of his crime.

I have not seen in the articles what drugs Idaho has not been able to procure. Texas bypassed the stonewalling of drug availability by switching to a massive dose of pentobarbital which it obtains from compounding pharmacies. I believe the federal government followed suit. So I don't know why other states like Idaho don't do the same.

Not all states are able to procure the compounded version of pentobarbital. Many compounding pharmacies don't want to expose themselves publicly by providing these drugs to the state to carry out executions.

Ohio, for example, has difficulty obtaining it, although that is one option the state has explored (the option of compounded pentobarbital as the lethal drug used in state executions).

 

[Nila Aella]

It would remain to be seen whether this would be an option for BK if he is found guilty and sentenced to death, since this method was not authorized at the time of his crime.

I have not seen in the articles what drugs Idaho has not been able to procure. Texas bypassed the stonewalling of drug availability by switching to a massive dose of pentobarbital which it obtains from compounding pharmacies. I believe the federal government followed suit. So I don't know why other states like Idaho don't do the same.

States are going to compounding pharmacies to obtain the drug because pharmaceutical companies avoid providing drugs directly for the purpose of executions. The problem with where they are "finding" the drugs to use is that compounding pharmacies are not heavily regulated and the drugs can be impure. Some executions have not gone very smoothly with drugs procured this way, resulting in death row challenges. JMO

Pfizer Blocks the Use of Its Drugs in Executions (Published 2016)

The pharmaceutical giant’s move to clamp down on the distribution of its products closes off the last remaining open-market source of execution drugs.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/16/drug-shortage-creates-hurdle-for-death-with-dignity-movement

Execution drugs mixed by US pharmacies draw death row challenges

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Gemmie]

So glad you asked because I've been down the rabbit hole seeking that answer and I started with what was collected in the search warrant, specifically the book with underlining on "page 118"

I searched books of significance on page 118 and came to the book Fahrenheit 451. I started reading it but not from page 1 but 118 and I had no idea what the book was even but I'll list the page numbers I screenshotted in the order I was them and IMO its a blueprint to BK's evolution past to present day, I'm still not totally convinced he didn't purposely leave his DNA on the snap to the ongoing his DNA was not in the system he was testing the limits in which he could push.

But please give these page numbers in Fahrenheit 451 a read and give me your thoughts and opinion on if there's any relevance to what we know about BK and if what we know parallels the pages in the book at all.


Pg 133 (BK's clean up process IMO)
Pg 134
Pg 135
Pg 136
Pg 144
Pg 145
Pg 146
Pg 147
Pg 148
Pg 149 last paragraph and pg 150 first paragraph is so gripping and IMO is what BK was seeking and who's to say he wasn't doing this before the murders in Moscow

Pg 155
Pg 158

I'm not seeing any SS's and it'll take a while to get from the library, even reading from them in the cloud the book isn't available. Appears multiple people can't read the same book in the cloud (which I find odd. It's not a physical copy).

Oh, and, welcome to WS @Montana Greyback Original. Glad you could join us.

 

[Gemmie]

Being born and raised here in Montana I can say that western montana and North Idaho are like a tight knit community, much like us from western montana don't claim anything east of the rockies mountains continental devide as being montana, it's west dakota because eastern montana is nothing but flatland and if it weren't for signage you'd never be able to tell where eastern montana ends and north dakota begins.

now that being said, I strongly believe the reason the indirect route was taken is because the sensible direct route would have taken them directly through 4 out of the top 5 most populated cities In the state, Billings (109,550), Missoula (74,400), Great Falls (58,700), Bozeman (48,500), Butte (34,300) and montanas top colleges and universities are where they would have to go through at a time that not only college students were on edge in search of the white elantra but everybody was.

SBMFF

I suppose that could always be the reason but I'm more apt to agree with Wulfeck (what I had in my OP - due to treacherous weather for the northern route).

the initial hours of the duo's journey would have been treacherous had they taken the most direct route — with whiteout conditions that covered parts of the Northern Plains and Upper Midwest in feet of snow.

"A southern route would put a traveler closer to the system’s warm zone and further away from the effects of wintry impacts," Wulfeck said.

Inside Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's unusually long route home to Pennsylvania

A look inside the long detour in Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's indirect route home to his parents' house in Pennsylvania's Poconos Mountains.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Gemmie]

There are a lot of people who are night owls. I've been up at 1:30 the past two nights. If I don't have to get up early, I often stay up late. Something that others have mentioned is the time change. There is a 3 hours difference between WA and PA. If he didn't have a reason to be up early, he may not have changed his general wake/sleep pattern.

I'd think his 3 hr wake/sleep pattern would have straightened itself out by 12/30 (the day he was arrested). He arrived in PA over 2 wks earlier. But we already know he was a night owl so don't think a 3 hr time diff is going to throw him off sleep pattern-wise.

Kohberger went home to Pennsylvania for the holidays, public defender Jason LaBar told CNN on Saturday, adding the suspect and his father -- who accompanied his son on the cross-country drive -- arrived around December 17. (I've also seen 12/16 mentioned)

What we still don't know about Bryan Kohberger, the suspect in the Idaho murders

Here are a few of the key details that remain unknown.

6abc.com